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Old 01-14-2004, 11:59 PM   #1
AlexGeez
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Default E30 BMW, E36 M3 engine swap

My friend is currently swapping a 1995 M3 motor into his 1989 325i. Does anyone have any advice/experience in this area? He is pretty knowledgable already, but any advice would be appreciated.
We are trying to estimate a 1/4 mile time, based on the mods (see below). The engine will be making an estimated 285hp. he isn't building the car to be a drag racer, we're just trying to get an estimate of speed. Any estimates from you guys?
Here is the mod list (this car is gonna be sweeeeet!!):

1989 BMW 325i
Engine:
1995 E36 M3 S50US Engine
Bosch 3.5 Euro HFM
Bosch 24# Injectors
Turner Motorsport/Jim Conforti custom chip
MPD Lightweight Aluminum Flywheel
E28 M5 Motor Mounts

Drivetrain:
E36 328 ZF Industries 5-spd Manual Transmission
UUC Motorwerks HD transmission mounts
UUC Evolution 3 Short Throw Shift Kit
E30 M3 Driveshaft
E28 535i 3:25 Limited Slip Differential
BMW Motorsport Finned Differential Cover

Estimated crank HP 285

Suspension/Handling:
Ground Control Coilovers with Koni Yellow Adjustable Dampeners
Adjustable Camber Plates Front
GC Shock Mounts Rear
Polyurethane Control Arm Bushings
Polyurethane Rear Subframe and Trailing Arm Bushings
Sparco Front Strut Bar

Wheels/Tires:
BMW/BBS Basketweaves 14x6.5
Yokahama AVS Sports
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Old 01-15-2004, 01:34 AM   #2
TheMirror
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Right here, man. They have an install CD avaliable for sale.

http://www.zionsvilleautosport.com/s...egory_Code=332

Your buddy's setup sounds very nice. Car should come out to weigh about 2800lbs., and with 285 crank hp, that should mean low 13's with good traction, not sure about the trap speed. I researched something like this not too long ago.....ended up with a WRX instead.
Cheers,
-Mirror
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Old 01-15-2004, 06:53 PM   #3
pierceman
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I have seen this in a mag a few years ago, try contatcting european car in boulder colorado or sportcompact car
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Old 01-15-2004, 06:58 PM   #4
ColinL
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doubt that's 285HP you've got there.



<---
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Old 01-15-2004, 06:59 PM   #5
N'CTRL
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When I was at Summit Point over the summer the guys parked next to us had the same set up. Except their E36 M3 swap was gutted, caged, fully painted (goodshape), and supercharged. The thing flew down the track. The rear end sorta blew during one of the 'teams' sessions, so at the end of the day he just switched w/ another one he had in the trailor.
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Old 01-15-2004, 09:29 PM   #6
TheMirror
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Quote:
Originally posted by ColinL
doubt that's 285HP you've got there.



<---
Yeah, rereading it, that's probably more like 260. You'd need a good header and maybe the Shricks to get to 285.
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Old 01-15-2004, 10:59 PM   #7
ColinL
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anyway with a 2800lb E30 you're probably taking about a high 13 second car on street tires. fast, but nothing absurd.

it'll be an assload of fun on the track I'm sure.
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Old 01-15-2004, 11:06 PM   #8
3ztt
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check out AlexMC on www.dtmpower.net His father is legendary motormaker McHenry
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Old 01-15-2004, 11:11 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by N'CTRL
When I was at Summit Point over the summer the guys parked next to us had the same set up. Except their E36 M3 swap was gutted, caged, fully painted (goodshape), and supercharged. The thing flew down the track. The rear end sorta blew during one of the 'teams' sessions, so at the end of the day he just switched w/ another one he had in the trailor.
was it purple with black fiske's with a polished lip?
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Old 01-15-2004, 11:14 PM   #10
N'CTRL
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Quote:
Originally posted by iamptam
was it purple with black fiske's with a polished lip?
Nope. It was white w/ like green graphics.
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Old 01-15-2004, 11:14 PM   #11
N'CTRL
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But there was an actual E36 M3 that matches your description there.
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Old 01-15-2004, 11:25 PM   #12
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there is an e30 that has a carbon hood, purple body and the S50 (i think that's the e36 m3 engine) as well as a cage(i think a 6 point), alcon brakes front, wilwood rear, and remote resevoirs all around. It's perfectly done. It is honestly the only modified car i'd ever buy. It's so sexy i love it.

p.s. he stomped me in auto-x with his car.
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Old 01-15-2004, 11:57 PM   #13
AlexGeez
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Quote:
Originally posted by TheMirror
Yeah, rereading it, that's probably more like 260. You'd need a good header and maybe the Shricks to get to 285.
I forgot to add, he has a header (not sure which type), but I think he plans on using the stock manifold. He is also having a custom exhaust built, however I'm not sure on what diameter/muffler he plans on using. He bought a used m3 exhaust, but the exhaust is so heavy that he doesn't want to use it.
Hopefully the car will be done by February. The engine is sitting in his garage on a stand, getting cleaned up and ready for the install.
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Old 01-15-2004, 11:59 PM   #14
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I've forgotten the guys name but in the Mid-ATL there is a guy who bought a car that had exactly this conversion done. He hangs witht he Subie boys on Fridays at the Barnes & Noble (B&N) GTG in Rocville, MD.

Repost this thread in Mid-ATL and I'm sure you'll catch his attention.

- Janq
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Old 01-16-2004, 12:32 AM   #15
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no janq you're thinking of gary 2wdrift. he has a 318ti with this swap.

the purple e30 that i described is also in the mid-a though.
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Old 01-16-2004, 12:48 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by iamptam
no janq you're thinking of gary 2wdrift. he has a 318ti with this swap.

the purple e30 that i described is also in the mid-a though.


JANQ? WRONG?

SAY IT AINT SO!!!
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Old 01-16-2004, 12:49 AM   #17
Janq
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Oh yeah I forgot about that.
I keep looking at the front of the car and never think to pay attention to the missing back 1/4.

- Janq
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Old 01-18-2004, 04:08 PM   #18
m ben
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sounds like a pretty well thought-out conversion. I have two cars like this, one with a euro 3.0l the other with a US 3.2l. the 3.2l car was my track car for 2002 but then I got the bright idea to swap the euro motor into the caged track car. it's still not done.

anyway, that combination of parts is likely to work fine and provide pretty decent accleration (low 5's to 60, 13's in the quarter), but it's going to be kinda traction limited running the stock 14"x6.5" wheels on whatever tire he happens to run. you should move to a 15" wheel & run something like a 225/45 or 225/50 as that will provide a good bit more rubber on the road. the 3.25 diff is a pretty good overall choice as it will provide about the same gearing as the MZ3's had (they had a 3.23), albeit with a shorter tire, so more biased to acceleration (MZ3's run 245/40-17's but have otherwise the same drivetrain & rear suspension).

285hp at the crank is maybe a touch high for that combination, but not too crazy, Conforti's cam set-up produces 300+ with the rest of the equipment that he's got planned, so 275-285 isn't out of the question.

my car had a 2.93 in it when I got it & it was a bit long-legged, but it worked well for me. I'll have a 3.46 in it this year which may be too short, but I've got some extra rpm to work with with the euro motor, so we'll see.

he also should seriously look into getting bigger brakes. running the stock E30 brakes he will be a lot faster than they can handle on the track, so ducting will be a must but I would expect that unless he's a racer & running really quick (i.e. braking not much & using r-compounds) he's going to burn up most pads that he uses. I have racer friends who run 2,500 lb E30's with their original ~170-200hp engines and they would all like bigger brakes. of course they're racers, so they always want bigger, faster, harder everything. going with the brakes (and hubs & such) from an E30 M3 is the best way to get bigger brakes for a reasonable amount of money & there are also lots of big brake kits as well as a wider selection of wheels which fit without spacers when you move to the 5-lug hubs from the M3.

depending on what you do/do not remove from the interior, the car will likely be around 2,800 lbs with a full tank of fuel. the engine swap doesn't dramatically affect the weight distribution of the car (maybe 1-1.5% more forward, less if you pull the A/C or other heavy stuff) and with coil-overs you can even out things a bit as well.

my car - stripped with complicated (heavy) custom cage weighed about 2,725 when last all together, hope to have it down to around 2,600 for this season with a few other things removed. it'll run GC's Advanced Design shocks & other random poly bushings & such.

if your friend needs any advice on the swap or just a group to bounce ideas off of, have him join up to our engine swap yahoo group :

http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/E30twincam/




Ben

'04 STi
'87 330iS - no motor currently
'87 332iS - ditto
'88 M5 - needs lots of work
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Old 01-18-2004, 08:11 PM   #19
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me likie e30 BMW's .... especially when they have the e36 6

~~Quentin
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Old 01-18-2004, 08:15 PM   #20
M
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i was the one that corrected janq. he's not infalible nor am i. But i've been here longer than him and i'm no dumb dumb. He jsut types a lot faster than me. Probably reads faster as well.
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Old 01-18-2004, 08:36 PM   #21
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yes e30 3 series was the high point. still had style, but no soft yuppie look to it.
can the current M3 motor get inside it? (i'm aware that it would cost more than the car)
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Old 01-18-2004, 08:52 PM   #22
m ben
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Quote:
Originally posted by Projekt
can the current M3 motor get inside it? (i'm aware that it would cost more than the car)
there is not a lot of difference between the S50 euro 3.2l engine (321 hp) and the current S54 3.2l engine (333hp US/343p euro) in terms of it's overall size, so it would fit.

however, there is not a lot of point to spending all the extra money that the S54 would cost vs the S50 3.2l, esp when you have to work around the drive-by-wire and all the other complications on the S54 as compared to the earlier motor. the 3.0l euro motor is actually preferred by many racers as it can be bumped up to the 3.2l displacement that the later motors have & it doesn't have the extra complication of double VANOS, which isn't really much use on the track as you don't need the low end as much.

given how cheap you can get an E36 M3 these days, the only reason to do an engine swap on an E30 is because you really like the style of the car or are looking for something smaller/lighter than an E36. I guess not unlike the argument for a GC8 vs GDB Impreza.



Ben
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Old 01-18-2004, 08:55 PM   #23
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NICE! I had a 1989 325i automatic that I loved (first car). If I can post an attachment I'd upload the pic of it.

She was beautiful

-justin
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Old 01-18-2004, 09:11 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by m ben
given how cheap you can get an E36 M3 these days, the only reason to do an engine swap on an E30 is because you really like the style of the car or are looking for something smaller/lighter than an E36. I guess not unlike the argument for a GC8 vs GDB Impreza.
Except GC8 and GDB Imprezas share the same suspension design, whereas the E30 and the later variation E36 platforms have that funky semi rear trailing arm setup.
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