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06-30-2008, 02:59 PM | #1 |
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BSP or SM?
I have an STi that is prepped to the old STU exhaust rules (catless DP). What class do I get through into since I do not want to go back to a catted DP?
I don't autocross regularly, mostly Time Trials (and probably road racing next year).
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06-30-2008, 03:05 PM | #2 |
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You're legal for either BSP or SM.
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06-30-2008, 04:04 PM | #3 |
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Set it up for BSP. SM is just too expensive.
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06-30-2008, 04:52 PM | #4 |
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I've been think about SM....BSP is expensive too, FYI..
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06-30-2008, 06:48 PM | #5 |
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06-30-2008, 10:17 PM | #6 |
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BSP too expensive? SM has many more modifications allowable making it much more expensive to be competitive. Been there done that!
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06-30-2008, 10:46 PM | #7 |
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Look at SM times and BSP times fella, it doesn't cost a lot to go fast, you just have to be a good ass driva!
just sayin.. |
06-30-2008, 10:47 PM | #8 |
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I have seen Daddio run....I am not that good, and I don't have enough money.
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07-01-2008, 12:51 PM | #9 |
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Listen to Justin (crystalhelix) as he knows more than most about this topic. A true BSP car is basically a better than stock turbo away from SM and in many instances BSP cars will be faster (depending upon driver). BSP is very expensive.
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07-01-2008, 01:02 PM | #10 |
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I am not saying that crystalhelix doesn't know what he's talking about, but I ram SM for a little while, and here are my opinions:
BSP = a limited number of mods, known ahead of time. SM = BSP, plus built, stroked motor, new turbo, new tranny (maybe), the car starts to become less streetable... In SM the limits are endless, and that's why BSP is better. Just because BSP has been faster in certain circumstances, that just means that no one has spent the money on a proper SM STi setup. Just my 2 cents. |
07-01-2008, 01:27 PM | #11 |
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I have ran BSP and SM. I currently run SM because it has a more interesting mix of cars/competitors. The .002 PAX difference is not worth worrying about (at least in my region).
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07-01-2008, 01:45 PM | #12 |
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The pax ratings are very similar. For the STi at least the ones without the updated gearing, 2nd gear is a real annoyance (too short) on many many courses. BSP is expensive, and has some really fast drivers in it (Berry, Miller, etc... damn evo's). I bet if a STi was built well for SM I think it would have a good chance of giving the showcase evo a run for its money. The quirks of the STi can be dealt with better in SM methinks Does Daddio still drive his SM evo?
But yeah, I am in BSP, maybe in a few years when I can afford to build the engine for SM I will go for it. I would love an engine that revs to 8,500-9,000 rpm with some more power (plus the gearing would work, heh |
07-01-2008, 04:51 PM | #13 | |
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I say no. I think BSP is very close to SM - I think if I threw the right turbo in and just added 2 piece rotors, yanked the backseat, roll center correction and put on a bigger IC I'd be in business. I can consistently stick with all the local SM crowd to me. Just trying to say. I've thought about SM but I agree with Andrew that there's stuff I would want to do just to make reliable HP and get gearing or rpm to take me into the 60's (65-70?) |
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07-01-2008, 05:49 PM | #14 |
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I run SM locally just because there are more people. But running national events in SM is just asking for trouble (for me at least). No one has built *the* SM suby yet. A stroked H6 with a cetrifugal superchager, and 345's......
Ok, I need to stop drooling. My point is that SM allows so crazy things that no one has tried yet. And I have a feeling that these sorts of combinations are going to prove to be a lot faster than a SP car. Where in SP, you are limited to your mods, and therefore, your budget has a limit as well. Now, if you are content with running a SP car in SM, then so be it. Further more, if you can win nationals in it, more power to you. I have my doubts, that's all I am saying. EDIT: prove me wrong and I'll buy you a beer! |
07-01-2008, 07:47 PM | #15 |
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woot for beer! This is a very debatable topic and I am not a good debator, so until I get my BSP car working the way I want I will stay in BSP...I'll let you know when I win the lotto and go into SM..
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07-01-2008, 08:27 PM | #16 |
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07-01-2008, 08:39 PM | #17 |
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Just know that the Lieber-derived EVOs dominate both BSP and SM. Daddio's car is very similar to the Lieber cars (Berry's, Hoops's and Miller's), only one of which is still in BSP.
Given that the difference is just over 1/10th of a second on a 45-second course on index, the classes are almost on top of each other. Of course, indexes are built on what has been done instead of what can be done, but if you think that uber-suby would be so mind-blowing that it would re-define SM's index, you have to consider that there would be other uber-SM cars as well... Just know that part of SM's design is to allow the sky, but not require it to win. |
07-02-2008, 07:26 AM | #18 |
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Actually, the Sky falls into SM2.....
Jay |
07-02-2008, 10:06 AM | #19 |
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07-02-2008, 10:41 AM | #20 |
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hahaha!
And that was kinda my point - SM allows for so much, but BSP doesn't, so there is a foreseeable endpoint of modifications. That in and of itself makes BSP a more cost effect options, IMO. I couple years ago, I ran the NEDIV Divisionals with my SM Civic, which I had put a good deal of money into, just to be beat by Chris Travis by....6 seconds. To make the car faster would take away from is daily driveability (yeah, I think I just made up a new word there), and I wasn't willing to take my DD to that next level. However, my ESP wagon is comfortable (for me) everyday. I guess I am just jaded by that horrible defeat. |
07-02-2008, 11:30 AM | #21 |
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Win SM the easy way! http://sccaforums.com/forums/thread/308171.aspx
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07-02-2008, 11:42 AM | #22 | |
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07-02-2008, 11:43 AM | #23 |
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Whatever he does, I pray it's not ESP.
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07-02-2008, 01:43 PM | #24 | |
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07-02-2008, 03:27 PM | #25 |
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