Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Tuesday March 19, 2024
Home Forums Images WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > Motorsports

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.







* As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. 
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-30-2008, 02:59 PM   #1
generalee69
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 106470
Join Date: Jan 2006
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Kent WA
Vehicle:
2004 GT-1 ICSCC #9
www.ClintonRacing.com

Default BSP or SM?

I have an STi that is prepped to the old STU exhaust rules (catless DP). What class do I get through into since I do not want to go back to a catted DP?

I don't autocross regularly, mostly Time Trials (and probably road racing next year).
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
generalee69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 06-30-2008, 03:05 PM   #2
Chiketkd
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 71634
Join Date: Sep 2004
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: C-Ville, VA
Vehicle:
In hibernation...

Default

You're legal for either BSP or SM.
Chiketkd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2008, 04:04 PM   #3
sureshot007
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 142405
Join Date: Mar 2007
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: TeamHazardRally.com
Vehicle:
#716 Group5 S10

Default

Set it up for BSP. SM is just too expensive.
sureshot007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2008, 04:52 PM   #4
crystalhelix
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 35313
Join Date: Apr 2003
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: SpryRacing.com AgileAuto.com
Vehicle:
Spry Forester
Silver Spark

Default

I've been think about SM....BSP is expensive too, FYI..
crystalhelix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2008, 06:48 PM   #5
generalee69
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 106470
Join Date: Jan 2006
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Kent WA
Vehicle:
2004 GT-1 ICSCC #9
www.ClintonRacing.com

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiketkd View Post
You're legal for either BSP or SM.
Ok cool. Thanks for the info. Saves me from digging through the rules book
generalee69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2008, 10:17 PM   #6
FASTRPH
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 23448
Join Date: Aug 2002
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: St. Louis MO
Vehicle:
2008 WRX STi
Silver

Default

BSP too expensive? SM has many more modifications allowable making it much more expensive to be competitive. Been there done that!
FASTRPH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2008, 10:46 PM   #7
crystalhelix
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 35313
Join Date: Apr 2003
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: SpryRacing.com AgileAuto.com
Vehicle:
Spry Forester
Silver Spark

Default

Look at SM times and BSP times fella, it doesn't cost a lot to go fast, you just have to be a good ass driva!

just sayin..
crystalhelix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2008, 10:47 PM   #8
sureshot007
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 142405
Join Date: Mar 2007
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: TeamHazardRally.com
Vehicle:
#716 Group5 S10

Default

I have seen Daddio run....I am not that good, and I don't have enough money.
sureshot007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2008, 12:51 PM   #9
sti752
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 87018
Join Date: May 2005
Default

Listen to Justin (crystalhelix) as he knows more than most about this topic. A true BSP car is basically a better than stock turbo away from SM and in many instances BSP cars will be faster (depending upon driver). BSP is very expensive.
sti752 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2008, 01:02 PM   #10
sureshot007
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 142405
Join Date: Mar 2007
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: TeamHazardRally.com
Vehicle:
#716 Group5 S10

Default

I am not saying that crystalhelix doesn't know what he's talking about, but I ram SM for a little while, and here are my opinions:
BSP = a limited number of mods, known ahead of time.
SM = BSP, plus built, stroked motor, new turbo, new tranny (maybe), the car starts to become less streetable...

In SM the limits are endless, and that's why BSP is better. Just because BSP has been faster in certain circumstances, that just means that no one has spent the money on a proper SM STi setup.

Just my 2 cents.
sureshot007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2008, 01:27 PM   #11
bcblues
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 17256
Join Date: Apr 2002
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: America's Outback
Vehicle:
18 Outback
on the road....

Default

I have ran BSP and SM. I currently run SM because it has a more interesting mix of cars/competitors. The .002 PAX difference is not worth worrying about (at least in my region).
bcblues is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2008, 01:45 PM   #12
AndrewSS
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 51674
Join Date: Jan 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Columbus, OH
Vehicle:
2005 Subaru WRX STi
WRB/GOLD

Default

The pax ratings are very similar. For the STi at least the ones without the updated gearing, 2nd gear is a real annoyance (too short) on many many courses. BSP is expensive, and has some really fast drivers in it (Berry, Miller, etc... damn evo's). I bet if a STi was built well for SM I think it would have a good chance of giving the showcase evo a run for its money. The quirks of the STi can be dealt with better in SM methinks Does Daddio still drive his SM evo?

But yeah, I am in BSP, maybe in a few years when I can afford to build the engine for SM I will go for it. I would love an engine that revs to 8,500-9,000 rpm with some more power (plus the gearing would work, heh
AndrewSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2008, 04:51 PM   #13
crystalhelix
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 35313
Join Date: Apr 2003
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: SpryRacing.com AgileAuto.com
Vehicle:
Spry Forester
Silver Spark

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sureshot007 View Post
I am not saying that crystalhelix doesn't know what he's talking about, but I ram SM for a little while, and here are my opinions:
BSP = a limited number of mods, known ahead of time.
SM = BSP, plus built, stroked motor, new turbo, new tranny (maybe), the car starts to become less streetable...

In SM the limits are endless, and that's why BSP is better. Just because BSP has been faster in certain circumstances, that just means that no one has spent the money on a proper SM STi setup.

Just my 2 cents.
Do you think an 800hp AWD car is needed? You couldn't use the power and you'd never get into the powerband IMO. I am not sure how much daddio has but I think you can't run with a huge turbo anyways.

I say no. I think BSP is very close to SM - I think if I threw the right turbo in and just added 2 piece rotors, yanked the backseat, roll center correction and put on a bigger IC I'd be in business.

I can consistently stick with all the local SM crowd to me.

Just trying to say. I've thought about SM but I agree with Andrew that there's stuff I would want to do just to make reliable HP and get gearing or rpm to take me into the 60's (65-70?)
crystalhelix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2008, 05:49 PM   #14
sureshot007
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 142405
Join Date: Mar 2007
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: TeamHazardRally.com
Vehicle:
#716 Group5 S10

Default

I run SM locally just because there are more people. But running national events in SM is just asking for trouble (for me at least). No one has built *the* SM suby yet. A stroked H6 with a cetrifugal superchager, and 345's......

Ok, I need to stop drooling. My point is that SM allows so crazy things that no one has tried yet. And I have a feeling that these sorts of combinations are going to prove to be a lot faster than a SP car. Where in SP, you are limited to your mods, and therefore, your budget has a limit as well. Now, if you are content with running a SP car in SM, then so be it. Further more, if you can win nationals in it, more power to you. I have my doubts, that's all I am saying.

EDIT: prove me wrong and I'll buy you a beer!
sureshot007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2008, 07:47 PM   #15
crystalhelix
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 35313
Join Date: Apr 2003
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: SpryRacing.com AgileAuto.com
Vehicle:
Spry Forester
Silver Spark

Default

woot for beer! This is a very debatable topic and I am not a good debator, so until I get my BSP car working the way I want I will stay in BSP...I'll let you know when I win the lotto and go into SM..
crystalhelix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2008, 08:27 PM   #16
AndrewSS
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 51674
Join Date: Jan 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Columbus, OH
Vehicle:
2005 Subaru WRX STi
WRB/GOLD

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by crystalhelix View Post
I'll let you know when I win the lotto and go into SM..
Key point

AndrewSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2008, 08:39 PM   #17
Splash
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 55936
Join Date: Feb 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Columbus, OH
Vehicle:
04 WRX STi
PSM

Default

Just know that the Lieber-derived EVOs dominate both BSP and SM. Daddio's car is very similar to the Lieber cars (Berry's, Hoops's and Miller's), only one of which is still in BSP.

Given that the difference is just over 1/10th of a second on a 45-second course on index, the classes are almost on top of each other.

Of course, indexes are built on what has been done instead of what can be done, but if you think that uber-suby would be so mind-blowing that it would re-define SM's index, you have to consider that there would be other uber-SM cars as well... Just know that part of SM's design is to allow the sky, but not require it to win.
Splash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2008, 07:26 AM   #18
Storm
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 5218
Join Date: Mar 2001
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: SAUL'S Motorsports
Vehicle:
96L Most Over-
Developed Beater

Default

Actually, the Sky falls into SM2.....

Jay
Storm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2008, 10:06 AM   #19
crystalhelix
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 35313
Join Date: Apr 2003
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: SpryRacing.com AgileAuto.com
Vehicle:
Spry Forester
Silver Spark

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm View Post
Actually, the Sky falls into SM2.....

Jay
bah..dum...ching...
crystalhelix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2008, 10:41 AM   #20
sureshot007
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 142405
Join Date: Mar 2007
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: TeamHazardRally.com
Vehicle:
#716 Group5 S10

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm View Post
Actually, the Sky falls into SM2.....

Jay
hahaha!

And that was kinda my point - SM allows for so much, but BSP doesn't, so there is a foreseeable endpoint of modifications. That in and of itself makes BSP a more cost effect options, IMO.

I couple years ago, I ran the NEDIV Divisionals with my SM Civic, which I had put a good deal of money into, just to be beat by Chris Travis by....6 seconds. To make the car faster would take away from is daily driveability (yeah, I think I just made up a new word there), and I wasn't willing to take my DD to that next level. However, my ESP wagon is comfortable (for me) everyday. I guess I am just jaded by that horrible defeat.
sureshot007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2008, 11:30 AM   #21
sureshot007
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 142405
Join Date: Mar 2007
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: TeamHazardRally.com
Vehicle:
#716 Group5 S10

Default

sureshot007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2008, 11:42 AM   #22
digitalseance
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 104400
Join Date: Jan 2006
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: SouthSide Jax, FL
Vehicle:
169k mile race car
Black

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sureshot007 View Post
Hmm...wonder what he's going to do next? Maybe an Evo X with the new engine? Full time AMS??
digitalseance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2008, 11:43 AM   #23
sureshot007
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 142405
Join Date: Mar 2007
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: TeamHazardRally.com
Vehicle:
#716 Group5 S10

Default

Whatever he does, I pray it's not ESP.
sureshot007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2008, 01:43 PM   #24
Chiketkd
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 71634
Join Date: Sep 2004
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: C-Ville, VA
Vehicle:
In hibernation...

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sureshot007 View Post
For a SM car that's won at the National level, that's not a bad price. Hope it goes to a good home.
Chiketkd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2008, 03:27 PM   #25
waktasz
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 86356
Join Date: May 2005
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Vehicle:
2018 Aprilia
Tuono v4 1100

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sureshot007 View Post
Whatever he does, I pray it's not ESP.
You're doomed either way my friend. If you're gonna try ESP in a WRX you need a 2.5L sedan.
waktasz is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Stay in BSP, or move to STU? Acejam2k Autocross 60 03-21-2010 11:41 AM
Best for all around sport....ITA, ITB or SM? digitalseance Motorsports 15 07-25-2009 11:36 PM
SM or BSP? T-WRX Motorsports 10 04-03-2008 02:11 PM
STU or SM? WMAWRX Motorsports 12 04-14-2006 10:22 AM
Aftermarket up pipe on wrx: SP or SM ? bongo Motorsports 2 11-16-2001 12:47 PM

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:25 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2024 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2019, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.

As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.

When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission
Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.