Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Thursday March 28, 2024
Home Forums Images WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > News & Rumors > Non-Subaru News & Rumors

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.







* As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. 
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-19-2008, 09:40 AM   #1
darknightohio
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 50523
Join Date: Dec 2003
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Toledo
Vehicle:
2023 GR86
Gray

Default Bush: GM, Chrysler to receive $17.4b federal loans

Quote:
United States President George W. Bush, in a press conference this morning, announced that the federal government will provide $17.4 billion in short-term, low interest loans to the General Motors and Chrysler in exchange for wage concessions at all levels - management, unions and suppliers - and an ultimatum that the companies must have thorough plans in place by March 31 or the loans will have to be repaid and the automakers will be forced into a controlled chapter 11 bankruptcy.

Bush said that the two automakers will not be forced into chapter 11 bankruptcy unless they are unable to turn around their companies by March 31. He said that allowing the automakers to fail would be an “unacceptably painful blow” for the country.

The loans, in the president’s word, are “similar to those offered by Congress last week,” except that they require “meaningful concessions” for all levels, including the unions. Bush said that worker compensation must be comparable to those paid by foreign automakers operating on United States soil, thus delivering a potentially crippling blow to the United Auto Workers.

Bush said that the $17.4 billion will come out of the $700 billion financial rescue package known as TARP passed by Congress for use on Wall Street earlier this year. The first $13.4 billion will be made available immediately and the remaining $4 billion will come from the remaining $350 billion in the TARP fund.

“[The automakers have] three months to put in place plans to structure viable companies - which we believe they can do,” President Bush said. He stressed his reluctancy to have to provide the loans, but said that they were necessary given the current financial turmoil.

President Bush issued the ultimatum that the federal loans must be repaid by March 31 if the automakers do not come up with a viable plan for going forward, “or the only option will be bankruptcy.”

“[The automakers must] show the world once again they can meet challenges with ingenuity,” Bush concluded.
http://www.leftlanenews.com/bush-gm-...ral-loans.html
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
darknightohio is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 12-19-2008, 09:41 AM   #2
WRXVT
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 17979
Join Date: Apr 2002
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: NOVA
Vehicle:
335i Blue

Default

good for them
WRXVT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2008, 10:09 AM   #3
BigElm
Always under your radar!
Moderator
 
Member#: 1568
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Sunshine State
Default

Good.... now we wait till March 31st to see this outcome.
BigElm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2008, 10:10 AM   #4
SCRAPPYDO
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 873
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: www.testdrivemylife.com
Vehicle:
2020 JEEP / RAM
Datsun 71 240Z & 68 2000

Default

This is crap. The companies have had 20 years to turn themselves around and did not do it, and now they have to have a viable plan in 3 months... Thats laughable.

I guess that depends on your definition of viable. Who judges its viability?

Just cut your losses and file for a controlled bankruptcy now
SCRAPPYDO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2008, 10:29 AM   #5
DHGurs
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 187414
Join Date: Aug 2008
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Pembroke, NH
Vehicle:
90 3 25i/10 STi SE/
17 GK Sport 5mt

Default

Prediction:
-GM & Chrysler Exec's get a $1.4 million Christmas bonus
-Fly whole company to Bermuda for "morale building"
-Complains to congress on March 29th that the global economy will collapse if they don't get another 24 billion


You heard it here first
DHGurs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2008, 10:34 AM   #6
LastResort
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 99289
Join Date: Oct 2005
Default

LastResort is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2008, 10:41 AM   #7
Hazdaz
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 14611
Join Date: Jan 2002
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
Just cut your losses and file for a controlled bankruptcy now


Oh yea, so are you read for Food Lines then?

Hazdaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2008, 11:28 AM   #8
UKscooby
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 33287
Join Date: Feb 2003
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: 2013 Focus ST, Yella
Vehicle:
RIP Nik
I will always miss you

Default

Why should their suppliers workers have their wages cut? That is bulldung. Bush, you are telling ME that because I own a business and supply parts, already as cheap as I can possibly go, you feel I need to cut my wages - and provide proof, to help them out. The parts I sell are marked up over 1000% by GM and Ford.

F.U.
UKscooby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2008, 12:06 PM   #9
stentorian
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 12959
Join Date: Dec 2001
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Olathe, KS
Vehicle:
2017 Focus RS
Black

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigElm View Post
Good.... now we wait till March 31st to see this outcome.
Of what year, because he didn't say. I'm just saying....March 31st, 2174?
-Joe
stentorian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2008, 12:11 PM   #10
jhargis
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 110304
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Crestline, CA
Vehicle:
2004 Volvo S60R
No more Subie

Default

"must have thorough plans in place by March 31 or the loans will have to be repaid and the automakers will be forced into a controlled chapter 11 bankruptcy."

They're operating in the red, so they will not be able to pay back 17.4 billion in 3 months... Even foreign automakers are not posting these kinds of gains. Why not just save 17.4billion and set up that controlled ch. 11 now instead of stringing them out for a while until they file for it at the end of March?

And I really wish people would stop comparing our financial predicament to the great depression. It's really a low blow to people who had to live through the great depression in the working class. It's getting pretty safe to say that basically nobody on this forum is old enough to have been of working age during the 1930's so I don't really think many of us have a concept of just how bad it was for some people back then.
jhargis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2008, 12:13 PM   #11
Chiketkd
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 71634
Join Date: Sep 2004
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: C-Ville, VA
Vehicle:
In hibernation...

Default

Quote:
Bush said that worker compensation must be comparable to those paid by foreign automakers operating on United States soil, thus delivering a potentially crippling blow to the United Auto Workers.
The days of the UAW are numbered...
Chiketkd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2008, 12:15 PM   #12
Calamity Jesus
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 44501
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Yeah, well, you know
Vehicle:
that 's, like, your
alternate facts, man.

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazdaz View Post


Oh yea, so are you read for Food Lines then?

$17.4b would be better spent on food.
Calamity Jesus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2008, 12:17 PM   #13
jhargis
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 110304
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Crestline, CA
Vehicle:
2004 Volvo S60R
No more Subie

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiketkd View Post
The days of the UAW are numbered...
That's probably the only positive thing I see in this. I mean I don't have a problem with somebody working hard and making a living out of it, but modern labor unions take job security to a level that is just way too high and they're literally chasing jobs out of the country in many manufacturing industries.
jhargis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2008, 12:40 PM   #14
AVOID92x
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 90606
Join Date: Jul 2005
Vehicle:
08 Civic Si
Rallye Red

Default

Nothing to see here ... just your hard-earned tax dollars being set on fire when everyone knows the ultimate outcome.

Perfect example of W throwing the ball into the new kid's lot ...
Yo, Obama ... Think fast!
AVOID92x is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2008, 12:43 PM   #15
Yotsuya
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 935
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: ಠ_ಠ Chicago
Vehicle:
Will Woollard
Fan Club

Default

Well, I'll give Bush credit for at least making a decision rather than put his head in the sand and letting advisers make cryptic comments.
Yotsuya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2008, 12:49 PM   #16
Mike Wevrick
RIP 1/19/64 - 7/23/11
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 24654
Join Date: Sep 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: saraseager.com
Vehicle:
1957 Taggart Comet
atlasshruggedpart1.com

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by UKscooby View Post
Why should their suppliers workers have their wages cut? That is bulldung. Bush, you are telling ME that because I own a business and supply parts, already as cheap as I can possibly go, you feel I need to cut my wages - and provide proof, to help them out. The parts I sell are marked up over 1000% by GM and Ford.

F.U.
12345 How is that even enforceable? The suppliers are not part of the loan deal.
Mike Wevrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2008, 12:55 PM   #17
Italiano
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 2137
Join Date: Aug 2000
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: CT, USA -what am I doing here?
Vehicle:
a 6spd Manual
Acura

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yotsuya View Post
Well, I'll give Bush credit for at least making a decision rather than put his head in the sand and letting advisers make cryptic comments.
I agree, it's really sad when Congress basically did just that

" Oh ...this is such a mess! .... oh well.... time for my vacation K thnx bye"
---
I'm not thrilled by the idea of giving them free cash, but having more than 2 million people out of work & that number is swelling fast, really takes away much choice on the matter.

this quote catches my eye:
Quote:
the companies must have thorough plans in place by March 31 or the loans will have to be repaid and the automakers will be forced into a controlled chapter 11 bankruptcy.
So, does that mean that if GM & Chrysler have a "plan" & that somebody (who this is, I don't know) believes it, they don't have to worry about repaying which would = an automatic bankruptcy?
Italiano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2008, 12:58 PM   #18
e11ys
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 77106
Join Date: Dec 2004
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Lexington, SC
Vehicle:
'02 Brodozer
'11 Outback 3.6R

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jhargis View Post
"must have thorough plans in place by March 31 or the loans will have to be repaid and the automakers will be forced into a controlled chapter 11 bankruptcy."

They're operating in the red, so they will not be able to pay back 17.4 billion in 3 months... Even foreign automakers are not posting these kinds of gains. Why not just save 17.4billion and set up that controlled ch. 11 now instead of stringing them out for a while until they file for it at the end of March?
It was my understanding that they must prove that they have a viable plan by March. If not, they have to repay the loans. So basically, here's a loan to get yourself on your feet. If you can't do it, pay it back (aka: go into bankruptcy).
e11ys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2008, 01:05 PM   #19
Hazdaz
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 14611
Join Date: Jan 2002
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beaverboy View Post
$17.4b would be better spent on food.
Something something teach a man to fish something something.

People don't want hand-outs. They want to keep their jobs and want to keep working. Giving out LOANS (not "Free money") to keep these companies going - especially at a time of severe economic distress - is the only answer.

Everyone is so short-sighted these days it's scary
... building cars has historically been a very profitable business.

Because GM and Chrysler's management have screwed things up for quite some time now does not negate that fact. If need be, replace each and every executive at these companies and start from there, but simply letting them go under is not the way to go. And bankruptcy is not the answer either because that would force every one of their suppliers (who are already hurting quite bad) to go under too, along with hundreds of thousands of jobs... domino effect.
Hazdaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2008, 01:30 PM   #20
clamchowder
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 187095
Join Date: Aug 2008
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Texas
Default

Let them enjoy it while it last, we'll see if they put it to good use on March 31st ! If not then they should !
clamchowder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2008, 02:03 PM   #21
KB21
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 186441
Join Date: Aug 2008
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Lumberton, NC
Vehicle:
2004 Impreza WRX
PSM

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiketkd View Post
The days of the UAW are numbered...
I sure hope so. At the very least, the legacy costs and salaries MUST be trimmed significantly.
KB21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2008, 02:06 PM   #22
EJ20toK20
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 148368
Join Date: May 2007
Default

woo hoooooo, keep the crappy american cars alive! i will never buy american. UNLESS they give me a Chevy Vette ZR1 for 1/2 the price then maybe, just maybe. lol!
EJ20toK20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2008, 02:17 PM   #23
SCRAPPYDO
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 873
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: www.testdrivemylife.com
Vehicle:
2020 JEEP / RAM
Datsun 71 240Z & 68 2000

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazdaz View Post
Something something teach a man to fish something something.

People don't want hand-outs. They want to keep their jobs and want to keep working. Giving out LOANS (not "Free money") to keep these companies going - especially at a time of severe economic distress - is the only answer.

Everyone is so short-sighted these days it's scary
... building cars has historically been a very profitable business.

Because GM and Chrysler's management have screwed things up for quite some time now does not negate that fact. If need be, replace each and every executive at these companies and start from there, but simply letting them go under is not the way to go. And bankruptcy is not the answer either because that would force every one of their suppliers (who are already hurting quite bad) to go under too, along with hundreds of thousands of jobs... domino effect.
I know your heart in is the right place here, but we have to be realistic. Currently GM and Chrysler do not sell enough cars to warrant having so many employees. They NEED to have some layoffs, that's inevitable. People need to face the facts that they will be losing their jobs soon. GM cannot and should not employ them just because its the right thing to do.

Allowing them to go into some kind of controlled bankruptcy does not equal bread lines for 2 million people. GM is too big to just vanish. What it needs is to trim the fat. Get rid of the dead weight. IF that means a lay off of 20% of the work force, then thats what it takes.

The loan is a token amount that literally is just throwing money away. It will do nothing in the long run unless the entire company changes vastly, from the dealer networks, to the manufacturing lines, etc. That is impossible in 3 months.

A company as top heavy as GM is, combined with the unions, is like telling a fat guy to run uphill with an anchor tied to his waist...

What happens after march 21st? They bring forth a plan to get them out of trouble, now what... do they get 50 billion more to enact the plan, then 100 billion more to rescue subcontractors, then 75 billion more to renovate factories...

It has to come to a head eventually, the airlines have all gone through a bankruptcy or two and they managed to come back leaner and more efficient. GM needs a good enema
SCRAPPYDO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2008, 03:07 PM   #24
Hazdaz
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 14611
Join Date: Jan 2002
Default

You don't understand that in bankruptcy, the people that are owed money by GM will receive pennies on the dollar... GM's suppliers can NOT survive like that. They are already in a huge bind as it is. It's not just the bankruptcy of GM... that would cause all these other supplies to follow suit. If those suppliers go, then other automakers will be greatly effected also. Again, domino effect.

Oh yea, and no one is expecting for GM to keep all it's employees - but laying off XX,XXX number of people to keep X,XXX,XXX employed is what it's gonna take.
Hazdaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2008, 03:16 PM   #25
Optimus Prime
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 69847
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Cybertron
Vehicle:
1000 HP 2JZ-GTE

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazdaz View Post
You don't understand that in bankruptcy, the people that are owed money by GM will receive pennies on the dollar... GM's suppliers can NOT survive like that. They are already in a huge bind as it is. It's not just the bankruptcy of GM... that would cause all these other supplies to follow suit. If those suppliers go, then other automakers will be greatly effected also. Again, domino effect.

Oh yea, and no one is expecting for GM to keep all it's employees - but laying off XX,XXX number of people to keep X,XXX,XXX employed is what it's gonna take.
You are right about the suppliers being the ones who will be the most effective, but I don't think it will equal out. If this money keeps GM running till March, then maybe it only helps the suppliers till the end of January and then they are back to where they were. I wish there was a real auto industry bail out where the suppliers were given the money and the manufacturers went into a controlled bankruptcy. Problem is it would take too much time/intelligence for the government to manage that. Regardless, I think they will be slashing jobs and divisions right away.
Optimus Prime is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Nissan approved for $1.4B DOE loan Chromer Non-Subaru News & Rumors 0 01-28-2010 07:51 PM
Ford share of federal loan to go to retooling plants AVANTI R5 Non-Subaru News & Rumors 2 06-23-2009 01:59 PM
Chrysler Financial won't get more federal loan money AVANTI R5 Non-Subaru News & Rumors 0 04-17-2009 02:54 AM
BREAKING: Automakers to get $15 billion in federal loans Chuck Jones Non-Subaru News & Rumors 64 12-09-2008 09:06 AM
GM/Ford and Chrysler to add new garbage. racer98 Off-Topic 25 10-18-2008 10:45 PM

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:40 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2024 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2019, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.

As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.

When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission
Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.