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02-07-2010, 06:26 AM | #401 |
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i really want to see a vf39 comparison, get to the dyno already! curious to see the topend as well. if the hype is true, for 425 bucks seems like a descent alternative to a used vf turbo. only time will tell...
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02-07-2010, 06:37 AM | #402 | |
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BTW it's not hype, it's just Subie Innovation... Cheers, ~Wolf WTi |
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02-07-2010, 09:51 AM | #403 | |
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ForesterWTi, I wasn't trying to ask silly questions but I have been following this thread for sometime now and I have read everything in this thread twice. This is why i decided to purchase one of these turbos... I will be getting it tuned by the end of the month. WOW... people can get really touching on this forum! I thought this place was for friendly conversation and knowledge about Scoobies but maybe I have the wrong impression. I apologize if I did something wrong. |
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02-07-2010, 10:11 AM | #404 |
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What I'm interested in seeing is how the larger wheel performs in the small housing.
You'll have less turbine area not being occupied by the blades, so less ex. gas can pass by the blades without hitting them. Now this will obviously make your spool up very quick, but I'm worried about your top end. That's part of the reason people clip the turbine blades, to provide more top end flow. So in theory, if your on the stock diameter IWG, this problem should be even worse for you. Think of a turbine wheel spinning at exactly the RPM needed to achieve your boost target. Now extra unneeded EGBP previously would have slipped by between the housing and the blades and IWG, but now more is being forced under higher pressure out of the IWG and against the blades of the turbine. Thoughts? |
02-07-2010, 10:50 AM | #405 | |
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02-07-2010, 12:29 PM | #406 |
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stop heating the air. you are pushing the turbo WAY to hard. notice the change in maf g/s from 4-5k, then 5-7k. 5-7k changes almost nothing. maf flow should increase as rpm's increase, all the way to redline.
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02-07-2010, 01:01 PM | #407 |
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^^^ Actually the 19T compressor wheel is operating at ~70% efficiency under the conditions shown in the datalog above (PR~3.0 @ 450CFM). The problem is in the small hotside.
The only reason the turbo can maintain 20 psi to redline is greatly reduced VE. In order to maintain the flat boost profile shown in the datalog, it was necessary to ramp up WGDC (and therefore EGBP) with rpm. As a result of the higher EGBP, the air flow through the engine is reduced (at a given intake manifold pressure). The lower airflow through the engine allows the turbo to maintain high boost. The end result (lower MAF through the engine)is no different. However, the above data was collected to characterize the performance of a clipped and ported TD04-19T at operating limits. It's important to evaluate data posted in this thread within the context in which it is given. Obviously running the turbo under these conditions is not recommended. Ken |
02-07-2010, 01:02 PM | #408 | |
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I agree about heating the air though, but in the winter with a good intercooler, your charge temps won't be dangerous. So if you don't mind pushing your turbo to the edge then the extra MAFv might be worth it to a person. |
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02-07-2010, 01:25 PM | #409 | |
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In anycase, i urge caution when tuning this. Start out with low WGDCs and slowly move them up as you get a better feel for how the turbo will react. Ken |
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02-07-2010, 01:28 PM | #410 |
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I just received an e-mail reply from Performance Techniques saying that they use the TD04H hotside wheel, but it appears they have also said they use the TE04H wheel... I wonder what the true answer is.
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02-07-2010, 03:23 PM | #411 |
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After thinking about the larger turbine wheel in the stock housing question a bit more, I have changed my mind about my previous post. In order to fit the larger wheel into the housing, it will be necessary to bore out the turbine exit. As a result, the exit area will increase (~15% increase for TD04H wheel and ~35% increase for the TD05E wheel). This should allow a higher flow of exhaust gases through the turbine, both increasing turbine efficiency, and preventing excessive back pressure and control issues.
Low-end performance should still be good (but not as responsive as the stock hotside), since the exhaust velocity entering the turbine will be higher than that seen in a TD05H hotside at low engine speeds (low exhaust energy). Upper range performance should improve over the TD04-19T with stock turbine wheel, both due to higher turbine efficiency and better balance with the flow capability of the 19T compressor. Ken Last edited by knuts; 02-07-2010 at 03:32 PM. Reason: more info |
02-07-2010, 04:45 PM | #412 |
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I just wish there was proof of what PT uses as a turbine wheel. I was about to buy one from them and now there is a conflicting story of which one they use. ForesterWTi was told TE04H which is much much larger than the TD04L, but I was told by them that it is the TD04H, which is only slightly larger than the TD04L.. (as mentioned previously in this thread TD04L<TD04H<TD04HL<TE04H)
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02-07-2010, 05:11 PM | #413 | |
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Quote:
I would still be happier with a larger wastegate, but maybe this will turn out ok. I'm really looking forward to seeing some results. (and verifying which turbine wheel comes with the turbo) |
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02-07-2010, 06:04 PM | #414 | |
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Quote:
I am basically in your boat at this time, I have been watching this for a long time and I am curious to see how it all plays out. If it truly is the larger TE04H and all that, this should turn out to be a fun DD turbo for the 2.0 Does either company port the wastegate, wouldn't that help some? I know its not "bigger" but it should help none the less. Side note - Performance Techniques needs to make a user account and throw out some information on here. This could help clear up any misconceptions and could increase sales in the end and thats not a bad thing either. I will continue to stalk this and see where it goes. |
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02-07-2010, 06:04 PM | #415 | |
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You didn't do anything wrong, and I apologize if I came off as anything but helpful. It was a late night last night, and I've been getting hit up with a lot of PM's that can be answered from reading. Happy TD04 Tuning!
Cheers, ~Wolf WTi Quote:
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02-07-2010, 07:52 PM | #416 | |
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Thank you so much Wolf! The info is greatly appreciated... I just want to make sure that I spend my money wisely and do things right the firsttime around if you know what I mean. thanks again. |
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02-07-2010, 08:14 PM | #417 |
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Well everyone. I just bought one of these turbos from Performance Techniques and I will be installing it very soon. I hope to have it tuned by the end of the month. Supporting mods will consists of Cobb SRI,Afta-maf coupler, turbo inlet, Catless up-pipe, 3in Catless tbe, 565cc injectors, 255 fuel pump, large tmic, Performance Techniques TD04 turbo, 3-port or mbc which the tuner decides on in this area. I will more then likely going to a tuner that uses open source to tune my car. I hope I can stick with the internal waste gate because I don't really want to go thru the trouble of doing a ewg setup. I heard the hot is to small so it could cause some issues.
But all-in-all I hope everything turns out well and hopefully it will be a nice DD. I decided to go this route because I want a fun street car with quick response and low end torque. I'm not looking for a high hp car just something that is reliable and fun to drive. I'm hoping that I can achieve around 275ish or so to the wheels and some good torque. I don't want to brake anything though because this is my only car. I will let everyone know how it turns out. If I'm missing something in the mod dept. please let me know but I think I have bought everything I need to support this upgrade? |
02-07-2010, 08:27 PM | #418 | |
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Quote:
Also, in regards to the hot side wheel issue, whether it's a TD04H or a TE04H either are bigger than stock. I just wish it was the TE04H, I was under this impression until now. I am going to cal James at PT to get this all sorted out. My point any bigger wheel on the hot side, as long as it's bigger, I would buy especially over the option of clipping the stockie wheel. Cheers, ~Wolf WTi |
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02-07-2010, 08:38 PM | #419 | |
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Check out the later post in this thread about my IWG that uses a true divorced DP that is VTA. IMO I think my prototype DP coupled with what I'm calling PT's TD04L "Monstah" is a perfect match for a 2.0L rex DD.
Cheers, ~Wolf WTi Quote:
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02-07-2010, 08:48 PM | #420 |
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This. Still a much cheaper option than Blouch, also including wg porting, and I like the idea of a larger wheel opposed to a clipped one. Also sounds like it has some better internals instead of just a rebuild. I would just like the conflicting information coming from the same company cleared up. I will be a little disappointed if it is only the TD04H like I was told instead of the TE04H like others have been told, but it won't change the fact that I will be buying this turbo.
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02-07-2010, 08:51 PM | #421 |
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the dark side
My project name for this GF8 is "Pink Vader" (3 layers of matte black w/ factory pink Rota Formula 18x8's) so it's only right that I sway to the dark side of the force haha. Yeah I hate/love to tell you guys/gals that I will be taking the bump up to The E85 Army
So I'm going to run 750cc injectors/255 fp with the PT TD04L "Monstah"... and yes a full tank of e85 fuel. I'm apologizing because so many people didn't even know about Performance Techniques, and were waiting on my dyno pulls, but now they will be tainted with corn Cheers, ~Wolf WTi --- Steamboat Springs, CO p.s. I get on a dyno ALSO at the end of the month |
02-07-2010, 10:45 PM | #422 |
Merci Buckets
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I think there are still a few people popping in and out who don't completely understand what the 19T upgrade to the stock turbo is supposed to accomplish. The whole point is that its an intermediate upgrade. Its going to provide more power than stock while providing better response than a 16G or VF39. Anyone expecting fantastic peak power and amazing results from a TD04L-19T is mistaken. Its not going to happen. If you want peak/high rpm power you need a larger turbo.
The big question right now is the 19T turbo from Performance Techniques. Two of us have been told that they use a TE04H turbine. One has been told its a TD04H turbine. There isn't a whole lot of difference between the two. In either case the result is going to be an improvement in high rpm flow. Both have a larger exhaust opening and will allow for a larger volume of exhaust gas flow. Obviously the TE04 is better for high rpm flow than the TD04, but both are an improvement over the TD04L. TD04H = 2.04" inducer, 1.74" exducer TE04H = 2.01" inducer, 1.88" exducer |
02-08-2010, 07:22 AM | #423 | |
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Quote:
I have a fair amount of parts stocked up, just need to figure out the turbo and then the injectors to go with it. About 8k ago I did a oem clutch and streetlite flywheel, should be able to handle the 19t for a good while (driver dependant). Mods eventually will be, 3tbe, GMS turbo inlet, spt intake, ssac tmic that is on the car. Setting on a shelf right now, grimspeed crossover, headers, GS 3 port EBCS, fuel pump. |
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02-08-2010, 04:48 PM | #424 |
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Perfromance Techniques' "Monstah" TD04L
OK guys/gals I called James at Performance Techniques (909-824-1020) to get down to our question at hand...
When you buy their turbo, for the hot side they use the TD04H wheel. The confusion was started when scooby921 had never heard of this company when I posted about them, he emailed/called PT to get info. When he did this they must have said what they told me just now: "We will install ANY wheel a customer wants on the hot side and compressor side of a TD04." -James @ PT So when scooby921 asked about the TE04H wheel they must have said yes we can put that in for you, not yes this is what we put in for their ebay sales of this turbo. James also went on to tell me that the difference is so small, even on a dyno you will not really notice anything between a TD04H and a TE04H. PT does not currently have anymore TE04H wheels in stock. I then went on to ask about, then which wheel does come with their TD04L turbos via ebay auctions, he told me that it is the TD04H wheel for sure. He also added that if I wanted bragging rights: the TE04H wheel is actually smaller than the TD04H. He said that he had read some of this thread due to gaining response and interest --- and was worried about the misinformation regarding this wheel size issue. So I just clarified it James furthermore, would like to apologize for the web site, not being Subie savvy, but he does not yet have a web designer, and would like to assure all of us that this is a great company and in the meantime to just give him a call direct --- he'd be happy to answer questions and take orders for their "Monstah" TD04L turbo. (PT's number is at the beginning of this post) Hope that clears the air in here. Cheers, ~Wolf WTi --- Steamboat Springs, CO |
02-08-2010, 04:51 PM | #425 | ||
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Quote:
Quote:
Wolf, I'm still excited to see what you get for results Last edited by Scooby921; 02-08-2010 at 05:00 PM. |
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