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01-09-2011, 05:33 PM | #126 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 133146
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: SC
Vehicle:07 FPgreen 7.37@95 WRX VF39+E85 12.0, 121mph |
wow Ron I want.... Sweet spool, is just like my green. I wonder what is the power potential maxout on E85? Post the plots
Phatbotti Tuning TKR FTW
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01-09-2011, 08:40 PM | #127 |
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W. Canada
Location: Winnipeg
Vehicle:2013 STI GR White |
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01-09-2011, 09:00 PM | #128 |
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Member#: 36033
Join Date: Apr 2003
Chapter/Region:
SCIC
Location: Tuning Lab
Vehicle:CEO PhatBottiTuning 2006 STi GTX3582 + Meth |
40* @ 3000 ft
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01-10-2011, 02:22 AM | #129 |
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Member#: 140444
Join Date: Feb 2007
Chapter/Region:
NWIC
Location: Near Seattle, WA
Vehicle:05 Stage Free LGT ATP 3076, 6MT, AVO FMIC |
That looks surprisingly similar to what I get from my ATP 3076 at around 50F and sea level. Phatron, do you have any idea how much faster that would spool at sea level?
You have to ignore half the lines in my graph because Excel connected the end of each pull to the start of the next pull and I'm too lazy to fix that... And I have an MBC keeping things under about 22.5psi, but the 20psi comparisons are interesting... 2nd gear hits 20psi at about 4400 (slightly slower) 3rd gear hits 20psi at about 3800 (same) 4th gear hits 20psi at about 3500 (slightly quicker) But, again, Phatron's tests were at least 2500 feet higher. |
01-10-2011, 09:26 AM | #130 |
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Vehicle:CEO PhatBottiTuning 2006 STi GTX3582 + Meth |
i dont wanna muck up perrins thread. i will have more data and start my own soon.
the car is back at sea level.....so we will see. it is cooler up here so i dont expect to see a difference. also, this gtx has the tial v-band turbine housing, ebcs+hallman, and a very nice header, exhaust, intake and bov setip. |
01-10-2011, 02:06 PM | #131 | |
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: PERRIN Performance
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Quote:
I did a bunch of 2000 RPM 1st through 3rd runs and the respool time between shifts compared to the GT3076R are the same. I haven't posted anything up as i was trying to figure out the easiest way to compare them all. But here is a screen shot: Basically i started in 1st gear at 2000RPM then floored it and shifted to 2nd then to 3rd. One way i thought to compare is the exact time it took for 100% throttle to achieve. During this normal run as well as a backed up run 5min later: -1st gear achieved 1.5bar at 5000rpm starting at 2190RPM, 2.25 seconds after 100% TPS, shifted at 6400rpm -2nd gear achieved 1.5bar at 4800rpm starting at 4396RPM, .65 seconds after 100% TPS, shifted at 6400rpm -3rd gear achieved 1.5bar at 4900rpm starting at 4695RPM, .50 seconds after 100% TPS, lifted at 5680rpm On these runs you can see the boost is not very stable. This is because it went from the dyno to the road and from 25C temps to 8C temps. This also led me to discover that the Cosworth ECU has an AAT vs. WGDC correction map that is hidden and set to zeros. So you will have to forget the wavy boost. Then for fun i did it with ALS on: -1st gear achieved 1.5bar at 4800rpm starting at 2464RPM, .85 seconds after 100% TPS, shifted at 6300rpm -2nd gear achieved 1.5bar at 4620rpm starting at 4300RPM, .45 seconds after 100% TPS, shifted at 5500rpm -3rd gear achieved 1.5bar at 4270rpm starting at 3900RPM, .45 seconds after 100% TPS, lifted at 4400rpm With ALS on its much faster between shifts, but i didn't really do it to the same degree as the first runs. I did this a few times but for some reason i kept shifting early. I will attempt to do this again to get some more data. I don't have very good comparisons on the GT3076R on the road as the temps were warmer and i wasn't purposely trying to shift hard so they appear worse than the GTX ones above. My impressions after driving the car for a week is that there is ZERO difference in how the car feels. What i mean is the response is the same in all conditions, and while it made 20more WHP, its hard to tell the difference between freaking fast and freaking fast! Either way I think the proof that the GTX3076R works, is there. It just comes down to is it worth the added cost. I have about 5 guys ordering kits with these turbos right now, so i am excited see the results! BTW, i am going to sell the current GTX3076R off my car that was used in this testing. I am thinking $500 off a whole kit using other new parts, or sell the turbo by it self for $1400. If anyone is interested in either let me know! |
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01-10-2011, 02:09 PM | #132 |
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Location: PERRIN Performance
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I will do some 2nd gear, and 3rd gear roll ons also before i take it off. Just to have that data to compare to Phatrons. I meant to put that in the above post.
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01-11-2011, 03:56 PM | #133 |
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Vehicle:2013 STI GR White |
Thanks Jeff. I have a lot of respect for vendors that show real road results, where it actually matters.
Then we don't need to guess at what it does vs XX dyno and YY dyno. Nice work.!!! |
01-11-2011, 04:10 PM | #134 |
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Vehicle:CEO PhatBottiTuning 2006 STi GTX3582 + Meth |
jeff,
curious on your meth mixture is it 100%? and how hard r u pushing the timing? was it aggressive for you shop car....or is it the same as how you'd have a customers car running? |
01-11-2011, 09:02 PM | #135 | |
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: PERRIN Performance
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Quote:
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01-11-2011, 09:34 PM | #136 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 36033
Join Date: Apr 2003
Chapter/Region:
SCIC
Location: Tuning Lab
Vehicle:CEO PhatBottiTuning 2006 STi GTX3582 + Meth |
this is interesting.....gtx3076 vs 1.5scroll rotated 3076
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01-11-2011, 09:48 PM | #137 | |
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Location: PERRIN Performance
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Quote:
I can add about about 2 degrees everywhere or maybe more. When I add one degree it adds 5ish hp. Adding two degrees of timing it adds about 8ish. At that point gains heavily diminish and engine noise gets louder (by logs not my ear). Would I give this tune (470whp worth of boost) to a customer? For sure a customer that is meth savvy. For sure a crazy customer that understands this isn't for his grocery getter. In all cases only with a built engines (pistons and rods on 08+). The 420who tune for sure is safe and for sure something I would hand to a customer. |
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01-11-2011, 11:47 PM | #138 | |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 255772
Join Date: Aug 2010
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very interesting indeed but what is a 1.5 scroll? full race header with an adapter?
Quote:
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01-12-2011, 12:12 AM | #139 | |
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Member#: 103631
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Mililani, Hawaii
Vehicle:2004 STI Gray |
Quote:
It's basically a 4-2-1 header with the last merge right near the turbo flange and not before the up pipe to try and preserve the pulsing, but it's mostly only available for stock location turbos. It would be cool to see a rotated version of this however, but you'd end up having to buy the header and up pipe as a unit. Most of the guys with rotated setups run aftermarket headers anyway. |
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01-12-2011, 12:15 AM | #140 |
Former Vendor
Member#: 178047
Join Date: Apr 2008
Chapter/Region:
SWIC
Location: AZ
Vehicle:02 WRX STI Spec C Black |
For a few years now, 1.5 scroll means a twin scroll up pipe, Twin scroll turbo, But using only one wastegate. APS has a setup like this, Some kits out there are like this. Its twin scroll until the gate opens, Then everything mixes.
C |
01-12-2011, 12:19 AM | #141 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 255772
Join Date: Aug 2010
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if that chart is labeled correctly thats horrible spool for a twin scroll
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01-12-2011, 12:24 AM | #142 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 36033
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Chapter/Region:
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Vehicle:CEO PhatBottiTuning 2006 STi GTX3582 + Meth |
Its a 4-2-1 how Reid-o described....on a rotated 3076
Hallman mbc. |
01-12-2011, 12:42 AM | #143 | |
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Mililani, Hawaii
Vehicle:2004 STI Gray |
Quote:
I always assumed the reason there were no 1.5 rotated setups, or not very many, were that its' so close to a twinscroll that it doesnt make sense to not go all the way. I recall that the stock location APS headers of that design made a bit more power than 4-2-1 designs before the up pipe, ala perrin. I was going to get the APS long ago but luckily I waited long enough to see the faulty materials. |
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01-12-2011, 12:51 AM | #144 |
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Vehicle:CEO PhatBottiTuning 2006 STi GTX3582 + Meth |
it was made by Covert Performance who now works at EQ Tuning.....basically a one off kit....well i think he's made 4-5 of them....
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01-12-2011, 01:08 AM | #145 |
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that data looks awful from that kit.
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01-12-2011, 03:41 AM | #146 | |
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NWIC
Location: Near Seattle, WA
Vehicle:05 Stage Free LGT ATP 3076, 6MT, AVO FMIC |
Quote:
http://www.full-race.com/catalog/pop...e.php?pID=1942 http://www.full-race.com/catalog/pro...oducts_id=1942 TS header, 2-into-1 up-pipe, single scroll turbo. That up-pipe design has been around longer than Full-Race's stuff, but as far as I know they're the ones who started calling it "1.5 scroll." |
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01-12-2011, 08:04 AM | #147 |
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NESIC
Location: Springfield,MA
Vehicle:02 WRX Fully Built Sedona Red |
I run a 1.5 scroll APS header and uppipe in my car with a DOM 3 (stock location GT30R) and i see 20psi in 4th before 3400rpm. I will dig up some logs and post some graphs. I can't go out and do a pull with 12" of snow.
Wil Last edited by wil06STI; 01-12-2011 at 01:18 PM. |
01-12-2011, 12:50 PM | #148 |
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RMIC
Vehicle:2001 Impreza RS Dirty Black |
Jeff,
One thing i would like to mention, i dont know if you had already ben told the same, but i had talked to a garrett engineer and according to him the gains with GTX get smaller with a smaller turbo. What im trying to say is that it may be worth while to test the 35's. Again the smaller the turbo the smaller the gains, this is why according to him they didnt release a GTX28 cause the gains were not worth it. Also this seems to be true acording to the diesel guys. When the large frame GTX came out last year, a performance diesel shop tested the GT4202 vs. the GTX4202 and amazingly the GTX made a little over 100 horse more. Even putting a GT4202 Vs the smaller GTX4294, the GTX made about 15 horse more. Maybe something to look into? |
01-12-2011, 01:27 PM | #149 |
Former Vendor
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Chapter/Region:
SCIC
Location: Torrance, CA
Vehicle:2006 Mod Class STI TIMEATTACK!! |
Great testing. I'd love to get my hands on a GTX35R for the time attack car.
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01-12-2011, 04:10 PM | #150 | ||
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