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Old 08-23-2011, 06:13 PM   #26
HipToBeSquare
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I saw a nice blue elise the other day, again. fantastic car being cruised at walking speed around a parking lot several times. I almost felt sorry for the car being under-utilized.

That is the sort of car where the Rotary could shine.

The same near-zero-concern for practicality, all-in for compactness and engineering purposefulness is apparent in the Elise, as well as rotary engines as performance engines.

Nobody buys an elise with the primary concern being stop-and-go traffic while sitting in a barcalounger.

The rotary engine hates that stuff, and isn't good at it. It is good at putting out screaming amounts of high-RPM power, from a compact little package that is no more complicated or bigger than it necessarily needs to be, and screw practicality concerns.
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Old 08-23-2011, 07:42 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HipToBeSquare View Post
The rotary engine hates that stuff, and isn't good at it. It is good at putting out screaming amounts of high-RPM power, from a compact little package that is no more complicated or bigger than it necessarily needs to be, and screw practicality concerns.
yet it is packaged in a nifty 2+2.5 4 door coupe. You could almost make a case for the engine in something closer to an elise or even a miata.

RX 8 engineers: lets make a relatively practical sports car with some concessions for civility, then lets throw out all the practicallity by making it get 12 mpg and be wierd about starting and what not. If those same engineers worked at honda the s2000 would be diesel
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Old 08-23-2011, 07:45 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dclin View Post
But to my point, putting a V8 in an Elise would likely make .
The rest of this sentence should just be the word awsome repeated 23 times


Crap now I am day-dreaming about an ls3 RX8
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Old 08-23-2011, 08:31 PM   #29
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didn't Hennesey do that?
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Old 08-23-2011, 08:44 PM   #30
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Kinda, google venom. They threw in twin turbos for good measure, but not all that much lotus left of the car.

Bugatti price tag too
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Old 08-23-2011, 09:55 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aschen View Post
RX 8 engineers: lets make a relatively practical sports car with some concessions for civility, then lets throw out all the practicallity by making it get 12 mpg and be wierd about starting and what not. If those same engineers worked at honda the s2000 would be diesel
Hyperbole through and through. I saw 17-21 mpg regularly in my RX-8. I did see something like 9 mpg on a trackday but that was far from the norm.

That said, I did stall it after moving it when it was cold despite following the recommended procedure, and having the car suddenly out like that and requiring a tow as well as a (free to me) starter, battery, plugs, and ECU remap was a behavior that was hard to swallow.
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Old 08-23-2011, 10:10 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shikataganai View Post
Hyperbole through and through. I saw 17-21 mpg regularly in my RX-8. I did see something like 9 mpg on a trackday but that was far from the norm.

That said, I did stall it after moving it when it was cold despite following the recommended procedure, and having the car suddenly out like that and requiring a tow as well as a (free to me) starter, battery, plugs, and ECU remap was a behavior that was hard to swallow.
On the internet, sometimes I like to exagerate a bit for effect. Its fun for me and Im not the sole offender. 12mpg is probably about right for me though, since I can never seem to get advertised fuel economy or even what most people seem to get.

The starting thing is really unacceptable in a modern car. I know a couple non enthusiests who baught rx8 because in the dealership it seems like a perfectly normal fun and practical car. Both have ended up with replacement engines and a myriad of other small to medium sized issues. A coworker bought one when they first came out. He looked pretty pissed when I called him a rotard. I was just messing around. He proceeded to explain to me how it had a different kind of engine than a normal car though he wasnt sure how it difered. He averaged right around 20 mpg and I dont think that thing ever went past 4k.

Anyways I am sure everybody in this thread is pretty aware of the compromises with the an RX8. Weather or not they are acceptable in a modern car is subject to opinion.

lastly RX8 looks fabulous in white
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Old 08-23-2011, 10:40 PM   #33
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People focus on the shortcomings but forget about the very good aspects of the car:

- 50:50 weight distribution
- RWD with a mechanical LSD
- Slick 6 speed
- Properly low H/hip point and cowl height
- Real Japanese/non-fat sized seat bolsters
- Predictable power without the guessing game of turbo lag and peakiness, and that addictive shift beep--wait for it, wait for it!
- Ability to fit 245 section V710s under the fenders for B Stock fun
- Relatively compliant ride yet with good mechanical grip thanks to proper suspension design (double wishbones, anyone?)

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Old 08-23-2011, 10:41 PM   #34
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I myself am a firm believer of the rotary engine, worked on them from the age of 15 and lots of people in the states have no idea of how it works or the capability's of it. Hell you mention a 20B to somebody and they have no idea what it is

I've owned more than 10 Rotary powered vehicles and pretty soon will be starting my next Rotary track car.
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Old 08-23-2011, 10:53 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aschen View Post
Its a shame its a really neat 4 door chassis, wishbones and space for big tires.
It is poor form to quote oneself I know. I thought b stock guys can run 275s? It is a great chassis and most of its virtues are only loosly tied to the rotary bit. All of its shortcomings are of course the direct result of the rotary. It would still be great and most likely faster in every measurable way with the appropriate piston mill.

Its not that I dont think the rotary is cool as hell. It is. I think the car is great for those aware of the idosyncracies. Mazda more or less sold it as a normal car, which left many buyers
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Old 08-23-2011, 11:28 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aschen View Post

....Mazda more or less sold it as a normal car, which left many buyers
And I think this was a huge part in the rotary's bad public image; example, each of the last three articles I've read about the future of the rotary mentioned about its proclivity to 'burn' oil.

If auto journalists were never educated that oil consumption is intentional via the Oil Metering Pump/seal lubrication, you can imagine how well the new RX7/RX8 owner was educated. But naw, the rotary is a sloppily built oil burner like a '70s Harley, as far as the general public knows or cares. Having said that, this is Mazda's fault, plain and simple.

For the record, my FD 'consumes' about a quart/3000 miles, about what my WRX 'burnt' in the same amount of miles.
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Old 08-23-2011, 11:46 PM   #37
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Tough times. 911, impreza wrx sti, evolution, now rx8. It does seem like affordable sporty cars will move more towards saving weight and taking a hit in power. Fiat abarths for everyone

I may be being dramatic.. but those are four good cars were losing over a few years. I really hope the 991 is just a 911 with a name change as to be sensitive about Sept 11
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Old 08-23-2011, 11:54 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrx surfwagon View Post
Tough times. 911, impreza wrx sti, evolution, now rx8. It does seem like affordable sporty cars will move more towards saving weight and taking a hit in power. Fiat abarths for everyone

I may be being dramatic.. but those are four good cars were losing over a few years. I really hope the 991 is just a 911 with a name change as to be sensitive about Sept 11
I hope you know it is still a 911 its just that the new one will be a 991 instead of a 997 that has been produced for the last few years. The name is not changing it will still be a 911.

Maybe I'm out of the loop but since when is the STi going away?
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Old 08-24-2011, 12:05 AM   #39
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I meant the wrx/ impreza split not sti. I must have misread road and track, I thought they were replacing the 911
Yeah the new sti should be very promising. i was just referring to the toyobaru

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Old 08-24-2011, 01:08 AM   #40
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991 is the next generation of "911". All of them are called 911, whether their engineering number is 991, 997, 996, 993, 964, 930, or the *original* 911.

They are all called 911, as a lineage.

991 is gaining power, gaining increased size, and interior quality. It is going more toward a Grand Touring car, rather than a focused, lightweight sports car.

Hopefully that will allow the next Boxster/Cayman, engineering number 981, replacing the existing 987, to get a bit more limelight as the main-line sports car, with 2 seats only, and a mid-engined layout.
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Old 08-24-2011, 02:43 AM   #41
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Ok so that's kind of what I thought, I just thought the name was changing. That nomenclature is just another reason to buy a Ferrari instead

Thanks for breaking it down. It would be nice to see the Cayman pushed a little further, but it really is not a very pretty car imo
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Old 08-24-2011, 02:53 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HipToBeSquare View Post
991 is the next generation of "911". All of them are called 911, whether their engineering number is 991, 997, 996, 993, 964, 930, or the *original* 911.

They are all called 911, as a lineage.

991 is gaining power, gaining increased size, and interior quality. It is going more toward a Grand Touring car, rather than a focused, lightweight sports car.

Hopefully that will allow the next Boxster/Cayman, engineering number 981, replacing the existing 987, to get a bit more limelight as the main-line sports car, with 2 seats only, and a mid-engined layout.
That's a possibility. Hopefully Porsche releasing an unrestrained Cayman S coincides when I am in a position in life to buy one, haha.
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Old 08-24-2011, 08:15 AM   #43
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if mazda truly believed in the rotary's benefits, why didn't they put their money where their mouth was and put it in the best selling sports car of all time, the miata? everyone says the problem was lack of volume, that would have made a big difference over many years.

seriously, with the goodwill they had going in the rx line, and all of the benefits that you are all lauding here, the fact that they didn't consider it for the miata is pretty telling, to me.
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Old 08-24-2011, 09:07 AM   #44
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The only benefit of this IMO is the relatively low cost to get into an R3 down the road. I will own one...and people will bash me for it, but once I hit the mountains it'll all be worth it.

-Mike.
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Old 08-24-2011, 10:11 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrx surfwagon View Post
Tough times. 911, impreza wrx sti, evolution, now rx8. It does seem like affordable sporty cars will move more towards saving weight and taking a hit in power. Fiat abarths for everyone

I may be being dramatic.. but those are four good cars were losing over a few years. I really hope the 991 is just a 911 with a name change as to be sensitive about Sept 11
This is a mess.
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Old 08-24-2011, 10:22 AM   #46
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If Mazda did put the 16x in a 2,300lb Miata I'd buy another rotary. 270ish horsepower(this is the expected hp for the successor to the 13b) in a vehicle that light would be beastly.
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Old 08-24-2011, 10:46 AM   #47
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The only benefit of this IMO is the relatively low cost to get into an R3 down the road. I will own one...and people will bash me for it, but once I hit the mountains it'll all be worth it.

-Mike.
Do you think this will drive the price down? Anyone that bashes you for having an R3 is an ignorant stop light racer.

I own a 400whp STi and a basically stock 04 Rx8 GT and guess which one I enjoy driving more? Some people just don't understand just how good the Rx8 is in the corners. The balance is just superb.
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Old 08-24-2011, 11:46 AM   #48
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how much less fun would that GT be to drive with the mazdaspeed turbo 4 in it?
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Old 08-24-2011, 12:42 PM   #49
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This is a mess.
just cuz they're keeping the name doesn't mean they're not making it worse. Didnt porsche just make a 500 bhp panamera gt car? Everyone that likes 911's wants them to be bigger and bulkier, right?

90% of what I said was right. wrx/impreza split, no evo as of 2013, changing the 911 (just released the last version of the current gt3/rs/gt2), no rx8.
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Old 08-24-2011, 01:00 PM   #50
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how much less fun would that GT be to drive with the mazdaspeed turbo 4 in it?
This. And don't forget about mpg
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