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Old 03-04-2005, 03:28 PM   #1
WRXSleeper
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Default What should I go with Cobb AP or KTR ECUtek?

i was planning on getting and running a stage 1 AP this spring on my '04 WRX. from all the good i here about KTR and issues with the AP with the new 04/05 maps should i just go to KTR and get an off the shelf reflash for a stock car assuming they have one. my mods are IC hoses and gpmoto silencer delete and i have no plans on doing up/dp. I assume KTR has a comparable reflash to a stage 1 AP and i'm wondering what would be best to go with power and reliability wise?
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Old 03-04-2005, 03:39 PM   #2
gusto
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its really up to you.

i think the AP would be better suited for *your* needs...but the ECUTek leaves you room to change your mind in the future (the streettuner does too but i say this assuming you dont want to tune yourself)

either is really a good choice and i dont think the issues with AP are as common as perceived.
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Old 03-04-2005, 03:55 PM   #3
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KTR doesn't do off the shelf maps. They only do custom tunes. I would definitely recommend KTR.
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Old 03-04-2005, 05:22 PM   #4
The Modaholic
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KTR...COBB has a neat concept but the dude isn't the best tuner.
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Old 03-04-2005, 05:34 PM   #5
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depends if you want to spend 500$ ish for a used one or over 1000$ for a tune for mods and one map that you will may have to change down the road

i like both.
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Old 03-04-2005, 05:59 PM   #6
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AP is a better product, but KTR will probably give you a better tune.
AP is better if you want to stay within their defined stages, but Ecutek gives more flexibility(at a cost, everytime) down the road.
AP has cool features like valet mode and lower octane maps, I dont think Ecutek does.

As a former AP user, I would probably go with Ecutek if I were to do it again.
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Old 03-04-2005, 06:02 PM   #7
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I'm not so sure about $1k (maybe with lots of mods to tune for), and they might have base maps. I thought Gusto got one with a few tweaks done on the road. Ecutek has valet mode, which is accessed by going WOT and turning the rear defroster on. The valet mode can also be used as a high boost mode.
1) New ECUTek customer that would like a KTR Performance reflash the fee is $650.00.
2) New ECUTek customer that would like a custom reflash the fee is $650.00 + $200.00/hr.
http://www.ktrperformance.com/Partners/ecutek_main.htm
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Old 03-04-2005, 06:23 PM   #8
bren wrx
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if it takes more then 2 hours...400 + 650 + odds and ends = 1000$
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Old 03-04-2005, 06:31 PM   #9
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The AP is hands down the best thing I did to my 04 wagon. I have no issues whatsoever and would definitely recommend it. Cheap and pretty much foolproof.
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Old 03-04-2005, 07:02 PM   #10
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if KTR can do a off shelf the reflash for $650 that can make similar or better power than a stage 1 AP and do it safely then i'd rather go with that. i definetly don't want to do $200 per/hr to tune a close stock car. otherwise i guess i'll wait till trey gets the new 04/05 maps fixed so the car doesn't stall at idle.
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Old 03-04-2005, 07:21 PM   #11
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This 04/05 ap problem is new to me, And i plan on picking up a 05 sedan next week. Looks like i got some more searching to do
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Old 03-04-2005, 11:57 PM   #12
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It is more than stalling at idle that is the problem...he recently admitted that he needs to do some more work on the OL/CL fueling delay.

Check out "My COBB nightmare..." thread in Engine Management & Tuning
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Old 03-05-2005, 06:33 PM   #13
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I installed that new software revision with no issues, and am certainly not stalling or anything. It is sm00ther than ever.
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Old 03-05-2005, 06:40 PM   #14
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If you are going to go off the shelf on an ECUtek reflash, the vishnu path is MUCH more proven (by virute of being around a lot longer), and although Franz is a great tuner, I wouldnt put him anywhere near in the class of Shiv.

Angus ran 12.4 or was it 12.5 with an off the shelf map from Vishnu.


But between your two choices, there are many very painful things I would choose to have done to my body before I would intentionally put Cobb engine management in my car.


I also dont see any point in going to KTR for an off the shelf reflash anyway. Thw whole point of going to KTR imho would be the dyno tuning. Trust me, there is NO comparison from an off the shelf map to a dyno tuned map.
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Old 03-05-2005, 06:50 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davenow
Angus ran 12.4 or was it 12.5 with an off the shelf map from Vishnu.

There should be an asterik next to this, considering Angus shaved over 200 lbs from the car to achieve this time.
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Old 03-05-2005, 07:38 PM   #16
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I have no experience with KTR, but I do have a Cobb Access ECU for my 02 WRX and recommend it. I'm not familar with any AP issues with 04-05 maps though. At first I got the Stage 1 , which was a nice little upgrade. It didn't feel like 30+ HP more, but the car seemed like it was much more driveable than stock.

I was saying I wouldn't touch the stock DP, but I lost to the mod bug and ended up swapping it with a Scoobysport. The difference between Stage 1 and 2 is fairly significant. The ECU upgrade offers power earlier with more aggression. It sounds like you want a small upgrade - set it and forget it. If thats the case, AP may be better for you since it seems the KTR is more suited for people who want to tune themselves.
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Old 03-05-2005, 07:59 PM   #17
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I have AP Stage 2 on 04 WRX
I never ran the old maps, just the 1.5 Upgrade with the new maps, and so far its awfully nice and smooth. The OL/CL pass over is almost completly imperctible. Most of the people here ran the old maps.
However,
If I was gonna do something with a turbo upgrade I would go EcuTek
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Old 03-05-2005, 11:48 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y2k43door
There should be an asterik next to this, considering Angus shaved over 200 lbs from the car to achieve this time.

OK so that means without that he would have ran

12.6-12.7

Still faster than 99% of people here with dyno tunes
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Old 03-06-2005, 08:17 AM   #19
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Having met Shiv personally and seen not only him work but the products that spew forth from that man's mind, I'll be going with Vishnu components on the Evo when it comes time... granted... I may have to sell my firstborn, hock some parts from Nate's fockas and collect cans in City Hall plaza for a month... but it'll be worth it.

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Old 03-06-2005, 11:29 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McBain_TP
I'm not so sure about $1k (maybe with lots of mods to tune for), and they might have base maps. I thought Gusto got one with a few tweaks done on the road.
i did get a "shelf map" franz had but its stage 2. i dont know if theyve got anything for a basically stock car.

either way i think the COBB system is your best bet for *your* situation.

ive had the AP, but removed for the ECUTek.

I was 100% happy w/ the cobb system but planned on doing things my way so that ruled out using their EM. Im also 100% happy w/ the tune from KTR.

really you just need to call/email franz and discuss your options. he wont try and sell you the ECUTek if its going to be overkill and a waste of money.
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Old 03-06-2005, 12:34 PM   #21
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I have heard of people leaving KTR flashed and dyno tuned for well under a grand. In the 700-800 range. I do not however, know what special circumstances revolved around that. From what I hear Franz is a pretty reasonable guy and flexible enough that I am betting you could work SOMETHING out.



I would still go Vishnu.

And I would still insert penis into meat grinder before the AP.
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Old 03-06-2005, 12:40 PM   #22
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One "upside" to a "off the shelf map" from KTR, although I dont know how valid this thinking is...


If KTR has "shelf maps" that THEY CAME UP WITH, then they MAY be better than an off the shelf map from california, as they are used to the gas around here, and they know the way cars tend to run around here. So MAYBE their off the shelf maps could be better.


I still would bet on a vishnu off the shelf map being better as Shiv has just plain out had a lot more time to perfect it. And no offense to Franz, but I doubt he is as good as Shiv when it comes to tuning. Shiv is that good. (he is also a dick and a douchebag IMHO, but that aside, the guy can tune)

But over a kingpin off the shelf, or any of these other guys that have just popped up selling their own unproven off the shelf maps, I would take KTR's on the above thought process alone.
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Old 03-07-2005, 01:03 AM   #23
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I say cobb because its cheaper and it works, wont see as much power as a custome ecutek tune, but you will have a few $100 left in your pocket.
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Old 03-07-2005, 07:46 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by totoherbs
I say cobb because its cheaper and it works, wont see as much power as a custome ecutek tune, but you will have a few $100 left in your pocket.
Something as important and as powerful as engine management is NOT something you should be looking go with the cheapest option on. If you can afford a 24thousand dollar car, you can afford ANY of the EM options out there.


Do research. Read peoples experiences with different options, read about the tuners. Do not for one second put a $200 difference into consideration when it comes to something that will make or break your engine, that is just plain stupid.


Yes, toto, you are correct, you wont see as much power as a custom tune.

You will also not see anywhere near the safety level of a custom tune.
Motors are expensive. My parts list is around $3500 and counting for my motor. (although its death was more of a concious choice , ducks, motors I kill em all )
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Old 03-07-2005, 07:48 AM   #25
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Just a note because I didn't see it posted yet ... I also considered going to KTR for the "Stage1" flash/tune, but ended up going with the AP instead ... The primary reason is because the AP is simply that, just an AP ... Speaking with Franz revealed that at a minimum I would have to install my UP for his flash/tune @ "Stage1" ... Don't get me wrong, I have an UP, TBE, blah blah, all sitting in the garage ... I'm just fighting with throwing away any chance of keeping a warranty ... At least this route keeps me "thinking" I have a good chance ... As far as I'm concerned, once you install the UP/DP combo, all bets are off on any warranty claims ... Oh, and when I do decide to go "Stage2" it's not going to cost me any more coin as I have the AP now ... Just my .02 ...
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