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Old 01-06-2011, 04:12 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prevent View Post
I'm a noob to sleeves but tell me this, Why cant i have the best of both worlds.. A darton sleeve but no cooling issues on the track..


Take a darton sleeve, pressure it in but have it 1/2 the thickness it is now ??
care to elaborate on the 'cooling issues'? Are you having too much thermal growth on the piston (build issue) or overheating coolant?


Darton makes three different sleeves for EJ, so having various finished cylinder wall thicknesses can already be done.
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Old 01-06-2011, 04:22 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homemade WRX View Post
care to elaborate on the 'cooling issues'? Are you having too much thermal growth on the piston (build issue) or overheating coolant?


Darton makes three different sleeves for EJ, so having various finished cylinder wall thicknesses can already be done.
I don't have sleeves so i cant say i have cooling issues, but the 2 "cons" i see people saying are



1. dropped sleeves
2. cooling issues at track

#1 has seem to be debunked with proper maching, #2 i would assume because the sleeve is much bigger and reduces the coolant passages a bit too plus is thicker
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Old 01-06-2011, 07:06 PM   #28
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dropped sleeves are from poor work and/or from overheating the block.

what cooling issues are you talking about?...you haven't said anything other than 'cooling issues'. The sleeve doesn't block coolant passages.
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Old 01-06-2011, 07:08 PM   #29
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Well hopefully my pinned stock block will hold on to a GT35R
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Old 01-06-2011, 11:10 PM   #30
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Are T sleeves good?
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Old 01-06-2011, 11:55 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Homemade WRX View Post
dropped sleeves are from poor work and/or from overheating the block.

what cooling issues are you talking about?...you haven't said anything other than 'cooling issues'. The sleeve doesn't block coolant passages.
Overheating
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Old 01-07-2011, 10:37 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Prevent View Post
Overheating
which doesn't make much sense at all considering the thermal conductivity changes...iron doesn't transfer as much heat...not nearly as much.

The only theory possible for that cause would be that all the heat goes into the cylinder heads...
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Old 01-07-2011, 10:53 AM   #33
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maybe sleeved blocks are pushed harder, thus more heat, thus more chance of overheating.
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Old 01-07-2011, 10:56 AM   #34
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I actually meant to state that as a point but forgot

after all, they are sleeved for a reason. more power = more heat
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Old 01-07-2011, 01:08 PM   #35
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hmmm gotcha
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Old 01-07-2011, 01:41 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prevent View Post
I'm a noob to sleeves but tell me this, Why cant i have the best of both worlds.. A darton sleeve but no cooling issues on the track..


Take a darton sleeve, pressure it in but have it 1/2 the thickness it is now ??


So something like this? i suck at posting pictures so it may need to be edited :-p

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Old 01-07-2011, 02:07 PM   #37
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^ does this really work for high boost apps? I'm building my block turning it into a 2.7 but worried about the cylinders cracking on me since il be boring them out to 100mm.
The power I expect from this build is around 420whp to 460.

Another thing Is that I'd sleeve it but the heat transfer isn't that great.
Do they make aluminum sleeves rather then iron?
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Old 01-07-2011, 02:07 PM   #38
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Why do people say iron sleeve blocks are not good for daily driving?
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Old 01-07-2011, 02:18 PM   #39
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yes thats good for high boost its alot thicker then the standard wall was and this specific one will be running 25psi+ on a dom4 Xt-r All day in S# mode. Just something to keep in mind is when you get that done, make sure to deck your heads. so w/e that equates to which will be more then your requirements.
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Old 01-07-2011, 02:18 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juanmedina View Post
Why do people say iron sleeve blocks are not good for daily driving?
because they haven't driven a 4g63
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Old 01-07-2011, 02:31 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Nuke209 View Post
because they haven't driven a 4g63
if that one is the only reason... there should not be a reason for not getting the motor sleeved other than cost.

What material pistons and size would some one choose to run a sleeve motor reliably, keeping longevity as the main focus? links? There is EVOs on the stock pistons running about 400whp for 200K miles
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Old 01-07-2011, 02:36 PM   #42
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you can bore that specific sleeve from 99.5 to 102mm. so you have some gap if you blow somethign up. I like it cause it gives me a brand new start and i can setup the PW clearance perfect every time. I was sick of worrying about the sleeves cracking, pw clearances off cause the block was so worn. It personally hurts when i spend hours balancing everything to .1 gram doing clearances on all the bearings, then there is a soft spot on a cylinder wall and I have to start all over.
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Old 01-07-2011, 02:46 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bamofo View Post
So something like this? i suck at posting pictures so it may need to be edited :-p

Is that a stepped sleeve?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuke209 View Post
because they haven't driven a 4g63
you beat me to it. I was just going to say iron block

Quote:
Originally Posted by juanmedina View Post
if that one is the only reason... there should not be a reason for not getting the motor sleeved other than cost.

What material pistons and size would some one choose to run a sleeve motor reliably, keeping longevity as the main focus? links? There is EVOs on the stock pistons running about 400whp for 200K miles
longevity in a DD situation or longevity in a race motor type of application? bieng serious. If you were stacking boost and didn't want to split cylinder walls, I'd say get the big-bore darton sleeve and bore it to 100mm and leave TONS or iron. If you are talking a DD, I'd still go big-bore sleeve (due to t-flange and step sizes) and run like 4" piston. It has lots of perks, still leaves plenty of strength but you can also keep a closer PTW clearance because of the change in heat transfer.
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Old 01-07-2011, 03:02 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Homemade WRX View Post
longevity in a DD situation or longevity in a race motor type of application? bieng serious. If you were stacking boost and didn't want to split cylinder walls, I'd say get the big-bore darton sleeve and bore it to 100mm and leave TONS or iron. If you are talking a DD, I'd still go big-bore sleeve (due to t-flange and step sizes) and run like 4" piston. It has lots of perks, still leaves plenty of strength but you can also keep a closer PTW clearance because of the change in heat transfer.
My DD is kind of my race car . My engine only has JE forged pistons it has 21K miles and I make 410whp on Airboy on E85 with a green, I go from time to time to the track and I don't think there is not a day that I don't redline it. I run 25psi of boost in 3rd gear, I wonder how long it will last I am hoping for another 20K miles

If found this on the STI forums

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandi@ARFab View Post
Factory cylinders go out of round and increase the taper due to increased heat. Increased heat comes from increased cylinder pressure which is also directly related to more HP.

Increased work = increased HP = increased heat = increased thermal expansion= higher chance of yielding the factory sleeve.

The material used, grey iron, for a factory sleeve has a low tolerance for all of the above. Ductile iron or steel alloy sleeves have a much higher tolerance for all of the above. Not to mention an aftermarket sleeve is much thicker than the factory sleeve which retains more heat unless you design in some extra cooling ability. Aftermarket sleeves are not any louder than factory sleeves. The extra clearance required by the ultimate power output dictates the amount of noise the forging will have. The higher the output you wish to have your engine built the louder the piston will be.

Drawbacks:

Sleeves take more time to get up to temp so your piston noise during cold starts last a little bit longer. Causing reduced life for the piston skirts. Coatings will help reduce this.

In order to help cool the sleeves/cylinders a high quality radiator and fan shroud is needed, not a POS china made radiator..Try looking into a real radiator like a C&R.

You will req sooner ring rebuilds due to the surface harndess of the ductile or steel alloy sleeve. We have seen sleeved blocks come back with 40-50K miles on them not needing the rebuild when used in the 400-500whp range for their upgrades in the past.

If you are building a DD 600whp car you should be "baller" enough to understand that you will need to rebuild that engine every 10-15K.

If you are building a racecar with 600whp+ you should be ready to re-ring / TRU the pistons / change the bearings / replace the rod bushings / replace the rod bolts / re-balance / new wrist pins / gaskets / replace the springs and reatainers at the end of the first season. On your second season you should add in replacing the pistons / valves on top of the above. Unless a tuning issue or other issue comes to the attention of your engine machinist and builder.


I sited Howard from his previous posts on this subject matter.

Brandi
the bold part confuses me ? 50K miles is very good for what we see in here. Will you say that if we two blocks on iron sleeved and one stock the sleeved will last longer?
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Old 01-07-2011, 05:19 PM   #45
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well keep in mind that most of the failures you see here are rod bearing failures, which can be from numerous slings.

Bad oil (loose term), dirty build, poor clearances, out-right abuse...

At 50k, I'd go through an EJ that gets pushed simply to inspect, do rings and bearings.
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Old 03-16-2011, 10:05 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by Bamofo View Post
balancing everything to .1 gram
Not needed. Think about it. How much oil is coating your internals while your motor is running? Well its not even to within .1 gram I can tell you that.

About pinning, Ill be pinning the sleeves on one of the ej205 block I have lying around sometime in the next week. Ill post pics as soon as its done.
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Old 03-16-2011, 10:35 AM   #47
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Not needed. Think about it. How much oil is coating your internals while your motor is running? Well its not even to within .1 gram I can tell you that.
With that argument keeping things as uniform as possible is even more important.
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Old 03-16-2011, 03:37 PM   #48
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^^Micah that is not a step sleeve,that is the first option sleeve in dartons catalog.To go 102mm you have to purchase the big t sleeve from darton and then have a good shop like MPS send it out to benson to have it done.
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Old 03-16-2011, 03:42 PM   #49
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To your ? juan,no it may or may not last longer but the reason for sleeving is to run more boost which = more power,more heat and more cylinder pressure.So if your goal is huge power sleeving, if done right, will theoretically allow the sleeved motor to have a better chance at a longer life granted all the other systems(oiling) are up to the task.I hope this helps juan.
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Old 03-16-2011, 03:54 PM   #50
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^^Micah that is not a step sleeve,that is the first option sleeve in dartons catalog.To go 102mm you have to purchase the big t sleeve from darton and then have a good shop like MPS send it out to benson to have it done.
I know it isn't the big bore. I have the big bore and have my own CNC that I get to use for doing the install

I was asking as it looks like a run of the mill industrial/cast iron block straight sleeve. Even smaller Darton sleeves are still stepped.
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