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10-15-2003, 05:32 AM | #1 |
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dunlop wintersport Ms or Nokian Hakka Qs?
So Winter's coming, and I'm looking for a nice new set of winter tires. i've got it narrowed down to the M3s or the Hakka Qs so far (if Nokian's still making the Qs). Just wanted opinions from anyone with experience with either tire.
I'm up in canada, so they will mostly be used for very wet/rainy weather, as well as 50-60 trips up to the mountains for a little snowboarding. The mountain roads up here can get a lot of snow, and a good deal of ice too, so I'm looking for something that kicks ass in rain, snow, and ice. I've heard a lot of good things about the Hakkas, but the Q speed rating worries me a bit. I don't really see myself going over 99mph, but I also don't want to be limited for the 4 or 5 months that I have these suckers on. Thanks!
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10-15-2003, 08:57 AM | #2 |
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It is hard to compare the two, as they are designed for different conditions. The Dunlops are 'performance' snows, meaning they have a balance of dry performance along with snow and rain performance. The Qs are pure ice/snow tires and warmer dry days will eat them up. However if you look to the WR from Nokian (judgegravel can offer his experience) then you have a better comparison.
I opted for the M3s for Toronto, but be advised that I tried tire dealers across Canada and none could actually get an M3 in stock - Tirerack to the rescue. So while the WR will be more money, to get an M3 shipped to your door from USA will make the price even out in the end. The Blizzak LM-22 looks good for your needs as well. You are in a tough spot since the Left coast of Canada has such varied climates. jason |
10-15-2003, 11:15 AM | #3 |
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I ordered the WR in V rated just for the drive to Whistler. Looked at the Dunlop M2 and M3 and Toyos no one goes over a H rating. Chances are your driving in the rain more than snow, and then your behind some guy in a rental car with slicks! jim
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10-15-2003, 11:16 AM | #4 |
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No experience with the Hakka's, but I've run the Wintersport M2's for 2 seasons now and sing nothing but praises!!
I live in the Colorado front range (Denver/Boulder area) and through the winter we see some 10F and snowing days and also 65F and sunny days (usually sunny with varying precip ) so the "perfromance" side of the M2's are nice for commuting and spirited driving. On weekends I drive up to the mnt's for snowboarding and the winter performance has not let me down... they are not as burley as my friends Hakka's (not sure which variety, but they are meaty) and wouldn't be as good in ice or deep snow, but they are better in the dry (80-90% of my driving) by FAR. depends on what conditions you drive in mostly? -Chad (hoping foe SNOW! ) oh yeah, the M2's are V or Z rated (can't remember - but my car won't go more than 120 so it doesn't matter much except for sidewall stiffness...) |
10-15-2003, 07:46 PM | #5 |
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thanks all!
I am a little worried about the NRWs, because Consumer Reports magazine rated them pretty low in wet weather braking and hydroplaning. Since it rains so much up here, I need a tire that can handle a lot of rain. The NRWs were actually performed the worst in wet weather out of all the winter tires they tested. The blizzaks rated poorly for hydroplaning too. The M3s rates highest in pretty much every handling category (even higher than the Hakka Qs), but so many people swear by the Qs, I wanted to give them both a chance. |
10-15-2003, 08:18 PM | #6 |
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FWIW I have the NRWs, they are no worse in wet weather than any other snowtire I have had (Blizzak WS15/50, LM22, Arctic alpin) or the stock RE92s. Others have not noticed any significant problem in wet with the NRWs either. The WR is supposed to have improved wet weather handling compared to the NRW.
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10-15-2003, 11:45 PM | #7 |
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They don't sell NRWs anymore, only the WRs with a different tread design.
Here is a Canadian review of the WR tires. WR Review (Canadiandriver.com) In the review they rate the wet weather performance highly. On the other hand the German Automobile Association did mention that it's wet weather performance was not quite on par with other tires tested - the M3 was one of them. But then who knows if there are different tread compounds for different markets. The M3s rated the highest 2 years running. Jason |
10-16-2003, 01:57 AM | #8 |
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nice link! That review helped.
It looks like I'll be going with a set of Dunlop M3s on 16s (to switch over to my stock rims for next year). Thanks again! |
10-16-2003, 06:19 PM | #9 |
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Simply stated
WR's are better, Once you get a set of Nokian tires you will swear by them for the rest of your life. PS Big advantage of Nokians beside performance is treadlife will last twice as long as Dunlop winters. PPS that CR Winter tire test was complete crap, too much wrong information to list. NRW's kick ass in the rain, @15K mi of hard driving never a problem, and they still look brand new. They go back on in about 2 weeks. |
10-16-2003, 07:55 PM | #10 |
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bah...now I'm confused again
Every review I've read about the WRs say they are great if you just want one set of tires, but if you are willing to get 2 sets, you should get a dedicated set of winters (like the M3s). Ahhh if only tirerack sold nokians, so they could have included them in their test! |
10-16-2003, 08:50 PM | #11 |
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I decided to go with the Dunlop M3's on a second set of wheels (Rota SDR's) for the winter months.
I read different tests and read may of the testimonials and decided to give them a shot. I couldn't bring myself to get a set of serious snow tires because I don't see myself outside in 20 degree temp swapping tires. When I ordered mine the M3's were only offered as run-flats on the Tirerack site. When I called I was told that they are available in a non-runflat version. |
10-16-2003, 09:54 PM | #12 |
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Can Nokians be purchased online? What's a good price for WRs? Thanks.
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10-16-2003, 10:23 PM | #13 |
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I have read a LOT of reviews over the last few weeks. From english reviews, to russian, finnish, german and swedish reviews. (Goolge translate, babelfish and some multilingual coworkers help) and have to say that my guess (feel free to disagree) is that the WR is similar to most other 'performance' winter tires but just marketed different.
That's right - it's all marketing, I work at an ad agency and all that stuff is created to market to a certain customer. And the 'all weather' tag smacks of marketing. People review a lot of 'performance' winter tires by saying something like 'would be good all year around'. To think that Nokian is the only manufacturer capable of making such a tire seems unbelievable to me. Say what you want of tire tests, but they are worth something, and WRs are rated very highly but not the best in all cases. Whatever though. Nokians ARE great tires, I have driven on Hakka 1s and was very impressed. But Pirelli 210s that I have tried were also great. They are all good, and to say one is better than the others in all conditions seems crazy to me. All cars, drivers, conditions are unique. And without some sort of testing I would surely not compare treadlife between tires. In short - you'll be happy with most snow tires out there. And when you read the reviews, my advice is to put less weight on the real fanatical sounding people - they seem out to prove something to themselves more than to you. Anyone who will discount a test completely fall into that category IMO. My $0.02. Jason |
10-17-2003, 01:30 AM | #14 |
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ya, now I've got it down to a set of Nokian WRs on 17" Rota Downshifts and just use em year round, or dunlop M3s on the stock, and a set of Potenza re950s or something else in a performance all-season on the 17" Rota Downshifts for the rest of the year.
If I get the WRs on the downshifts, I save around $700 and don't have to worry about swapping the wheels twice a year. How bad will winter driving destroy a set of Rotas anyways? |
10-17-2003, 10:50 AM | #15 |
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I'd really stick to stock tire size - going wider tends to make tires float in snow.
I had a great experience with the WRs in stock size on my WRX last winter. Roger |
10-17-2003, 01:14 PM | #16 |
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might want to check out the winterforce tires at tirerack... cheap alternative.
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10-17-2003, 04:01 PM | #17 |
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I have Hakka Q's and love them and will be sticking with them.
My other experience has always been with Michelin Arctic/Pilot Alpins. The only thing I can recommend to you here is to not ever waste money on a "performance winter tire". There is no performance to these tires. Just get a winter tire and a set of performance tires and swap them. |
10-18-2003, 09:47 AM | #18 | |
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Quote:
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10-19-2003, 09:02 AM | #19 |
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one more idea...will Nokian WRs perform better year round than the stock tires? I took a more realistic look at my budget and decided bigger rims and fancy summer tires weren't important.
If they are better, I will just chuck them on the stock rims and run em all year. The decision is basically Nokian WRs all year on stock rims, or Nokian Qs in the winter on crappy steelies and stock tires on stock rims the rest of the time. I'm not a crazy racer or performance type guy, so I'm not worried about 1/4 times or beating people off the line or whatever... ...and i promise this will be my last question before i just shut up and go buy something |
10-19-2003, 10:33 AM | #20 |
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IMHO, WR's perform much better than re92's in all circumstances, winter, spring, summer, or fall. Still dont underestimate the fun and importance of a good summer.
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10-19-2003, 05:26 PM | #21 |
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e-tires is ludicrously expensive.
Benchmark tire price comparisons they are $100 more per tire on Michelin Pilot Sports than TR. I couldn't buy from a company with price policies like that. Tire Rack 225/45/17 is $177, e-tires wants $287. They are out of their minds! |
10-19-2003, 07:52 PM | #22 |
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I decided to go for the WRs, based on testimonials here, and the commentary from the guys at E-Tires, who are in my area. Just had them mounted, and they're just sitting in the basement until winter begins up here.
I had pretty much decided upon the Hakka 1, until talking to the guys at E-Tires, who felt that, given the conditions up here, where snow is cleared very quickly (people with bald-tired, front-drive cars must still be able to get to work, after all...), the WRs would be a good choice. They give up something in ultimate snow performance to the Hakka 1s, which might matter more without AWD... It's a grand experiment, so we'll see. The 50,000-mile treadlife guarantee also impressed me mightily. Hell, at that rate, my WRs will dry out before they wear out (I'm using them as a purely winter tire). Tell ya something else. I don't know if this means anything, but rolling my Blizzaks to the car to put them in the boot, they didn't pick anything up. Rolling the WRs (on the same wheels) from the car to the house, the tires had leaf afros! Those things picked up everything. There isn't much difference in the siping, but the WR has more space between its directional tread blocks than the Blizzaks. Can't wait for snow. Should be interesting. Oh, Zornorph, as someone else responded in another thread, you have to compare tire prices across the board, not just for one tire, before deciding that a particular vendor is "out of their minds." It could well be that E-Tires simply doesn't have the purchasing power that Tire Rack does, which explains the price difference. Kevin |
10-19-2003, 08:02 PM | #23 |
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Oh, another thing that influenced my decision is recollection of how the dry and wet performance of the WS-series Blizzaks was. You can cure some of that by running higher pressures (I ran 35 psi all around), but the car did get rather uh, uncertain at highway speeds.
I imagine the LMs would be better, however. I think of tires such as these as "speed rated," rather than "performance snows." I think that snow and performance are mutually exclusive. Speed rated snows tend to be more of a compromise than pure snows. Whether the compromise is worth it depends upon where you live, how much snow you get, and whether you have AWD. Subarus will kick out the jams with any snow tire, I would wager. Kevin |
10-19-2003, 08:19 PM | #24 |
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gtguy Did you get the H or V rated WRs?
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10-19-2003, 08:40 PM | #25 |
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I checked several prices, not just one. The one was the only one I wrote about. What it tells me is that I need to look for someone else who carries the Nokians and shop it hard before ordering from those guys, becuase they have poor buying power on some and it just might be on the Nokians as well.
Why would you even put the prices and items up on a web site if you are more than a local tire numbnut who never heard of it, has to custom order it, and charges 100% markup? I called two family owned tire garages in seacoast NH and they are over $40 cheaper per tire WITH INSTALLATION than e-tires on the Nokian Hakka WR's. |
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