Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Friday March 29, 2024
Home Forums Images WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
Click here to visit TireRack
Brakes & Suspension Forum sponsored by The Tire Rack

Losing traction? Need new tires?
Click here to visit the NASIOC Upgrade Garage...
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Brakes, Steering & Suspension

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.







* As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. 
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-14-2003, 02:10 PM   #1
WRXed4good
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 37143
Join Date: May 2003
Location: LONG ISLAND , NY
Vehicle:
02 WRX Wagon
Alpine White

Default Noltec vs Poltec and endlink info

Both these companies have endlinks on sale for $85. Does anyone here have any experience with either of these endlinks?
Any thoughts on which one I should buy?

Edit: This has turned into some great technical info on endlink performance - check it out.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

Last edited by WRXed4good; 11-21-2003 at 12:55 PM.
WRXed4good is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 11-14-2003, 06:27 PM   #2
nhluhr
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 7327
Join Date: Jun 2001
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Seattle, WA
Vehicle:
2008 Mazdaspeed3
2006 Wrangler Sport

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by WRXed4good
Both these companies have endlinks on sale for $85. Does anyone here have any experience with either of these endlinks?
Any thoughts on which one I should buy?
never heard of "poltec" i think you might have encountered a typo...
nhluhr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2003, 06:53 PM   #3
driggity
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 7453
Join Date: Jun 2001
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Bay Area, CA
Vehicle:
2014 Scion FR-S
Hot Lava

Default

They're a vendor here. They've got an add up in the vendor for sales forum right now. If the quality is there the endlinks they offer seem to be a very good bargain.
driggity is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2003, 08:44 PM   #4
PolTec Inc
Vendor
 
Member#: 41768
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Chicago, IL
Default

Greetings,
We are a new vendor on NASIOC and only few customers so far. I do not want to compare our products to others but I would like to assure you that if you are not satisfied with our product you can return it for a full refund.

Regards
Darek
PolTec Inc
PolTec Inc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2003, 09:47 PM   #5
nhluhr
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 7327
Join Date: Jun 2001
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Seattle, WA
Vehicle:
2008 Mazdaspeed3
2006 Wrangler Sport

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by PolTec Inc
We are a new vendor on NASIOC

Regards
Darek
PolTec Inc
can you please give me a link to your website or if you have no website, some sort of listing of the products you sell?

thanks!
nhluhr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2003, 10:42 PM   #6
WRXed4good
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 37143
Join Date: May 2003
Location: LONG ISLAND , NY
Vehicle:
02 WRX Wagon
Alpine White

Default

can you please give me a link to your website or if you have no website, some sort of listing of the products you sell?

This is their posting .
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...hreadid=453448
WRXed4good is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2003, 07:46 AM   #7
DetroitWRX
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 18777
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Fredericksburg, VA
Vehicle:
2002 WRX Wagon
Sedona Red Pearl

Default

Adjustable ones
OK well another person making end links look at what Kartboy has started. Wait adjustable ones now Poltec has a smart twist to the norm. Would the two bolts hold the setting for a hard track day though?
DetroitWRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2003, 09:11 AM   #8
PolTec Inc
Vendor
 
Member#: 41768
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Chicago, IL
Default

QUOTE]Would the two bolts hold the setting for a hard track day though?[/quote]

Given that you torque everything properly and the fact the forces on the bolted off of the force axis there is no way that the bolted connection between the two parts of the link can change position. During our testing we were bending the links while the connection stayed the same as set originally while applying forces that were greatly in excess of what the links may see.

QUOTE]OK well another person making end links look at what Kartboy has started.[/quote]

Guilty as charged, there is no question that Kartboy has designed and is producing a quality product; however you will notice that we offer a variety of options with our links that they do not. Depending on your budget and needs you may pick the one that is best for you.

Regards
Darek
PolTec
PolTec Inc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2003, 10:47 AM   #9
bluestone
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 36583
Join Date: May 2003
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Irvine, CA
Vehicle:
2004 WRX sedan
Aspen White

Default

pretty much all endlinks look the same to me as long as the bushings are solid urethane and the link is a solid piece of aluminum. i got a set for 75 from www.mrjosh43.com and they work fine.
bluestone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2003, 03:28 PM   #10
Patrick Olsen
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 120
Join Date: Jul 1999
Chapter/Region: AKIC
Location: Where the Navy sends me...
Vehicle:
1997 Legacy 2.5GT
1996 Impreza coupe

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by PolTec Inc
QUOTE]Would the two bolts hold the setting for a hard track day though?


Given that you torque everything properly and the fact the forces on the bolted off of the force axis there is no way that the bolted connection between the two parts of the link can change position.
[/quote]

I trust that you guys did thorough testing and that the design works, but I'm not sure I understand your explanation. First, "the fact the forces on the bolted off of the force axis" is kinda, uh, gibberish? I think you mis-typed something there.

I think I understand what you were trying to say, and if I understand correctly I have to disagree. As one corner of the suspension goes into droop, the endlink is going to pull down on the swaybar to make it follow the lateral link, and that's going to put the endlink into tension. When the suspension compresses, the endlink goes into compression. Those compression and tension cycles will be acting right along the axis of your adjustment. So, you've tested the endlinks and they don't slip, but to say that the force doesn't act along that axis is incorrect.

Pat Olsen
'97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan
Installing coil-overs soon, potential future customer
Patrick Olsen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2003, 11:03 PM   #11
PolTec Inc
Vendor
 
Member#: 41768
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Chicago, IL
Default

Quote:
I think you mis-typed something there.
I certainly did, look like I need to proof read my posts a little batter, but you did understand what I was trying to say. Now, let me explain this a little better, following is the simplified and exaggerated link (to illustrate what I was saying).


.F--->O......................O<---F
........I.........................I
........I.........................I
........I.........................I
........I.........................I
........I.........................I
........I....<---R--->.......I
........ \__________....I
.............._X____X___/

Please disregard the dots (I could not formate it properly without them).

X - SCREWS HOLDING THE TWO PARTS OF THE LINK TOGETHER.
O - BEARINGS
F - FORCE ACTING ON THE LINK
R - INTERNAL REACTION FORCE ON THE BOLTED CONNECTION DUE TO F

The link comprises of two parts, each of those parts is subjected to one "F" force and one "R" force. R is equal to F in magnitude but they are acting on a different axis and therefore are creating a torque along the bolted connection. To counteract, the connection also has to carry the torque around each X point.
Each of the bolts will slide in a slot if you do not tighten it at all, and it will do it freely. Once you torque it, it then has to resist force R as well as the torque created by R and F. Now assume that you will start to increase the force F, once you increase it past a certain level it will either rotate of slide first. Intuition, and our testing, tells you that it will rotate and thus the screws will be pressing against the walls of the slot creating additional friction that will oppose the sliding. When we tested the links to failure, we could see an imprint of the threads inside the slot while there was no sliding.

I hope you can now see better what I had in mind.

Regards
Darek
PolTec Inc
PolTec Inc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2003, 11:35 PM   #12
tom@kartboy
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 67
Join Date: Jul 1999
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: San Diego, CA
Vehicle:
1999 Outlasting
the competition.

Default

Requested removal.

Last edited by tom@kartboy; 11-19-2003 at 06:24 PM.
tom@kartboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2003, 03:09 AM   #13
Patrick Olsen
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 120
Join Date: Jul 1999
Chapter/Region: AKIC
Location: Where the Navy sends me...
Vehicle:
1997 Legacy 2.5GT
1996 Impreza coupe

Default

OK, I understand. Thanks for the picture and explanation.

Pat
Patrick Olsen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2003, 12:16 PM   #14
subysouth
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 5039
Join Date: Mar 2001
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Ocean Springs, MS
Vehicle:
2007 Outback XT
Grey 5-speed (sold)

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by tom@kartboy
darek
you interested in sending me one to test in the mangler?? i have run EVERY set of links that are out there and have all the deflection numbers at the shop.
Hey Tom what about the new Whiteline endlinks?

ss
subysouth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2003, 01:24 PM   #15
Vortechcoupe
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 33262
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Austin
Vehicle:
E36 M3
93 notch, X3

Default

yes, i'd also like to see how the new whitelines did in that test. How much force was put on the one in the above pic?? Was it WAY more then you could in the car??

Justin C
Vortechcoupe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2003, 01:41 PM   #16
bluestone
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 36583
Join Date: May 2003
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Irvine, CA
Vehicle:
2004 WRX sedan
Aspen White

Default

did you test the mr josh's links?
bluestone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2003, 02:09 PM   #17
xfrickx
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 7267
Join Date: Jun 2001
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: SF CA
Vehicle:
1994 Honda VFR RC-36
2002 Subaru 2.5RS

Default

OOO this could get messy! I don't think Tom's gonna disclose any info on other manufacturers.

I don't really care though, I got Kartboys!
xfrickx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2003, 05:06 PM   #18
subysouth
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 5039
Join Date: Mar 2001
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Ocean Springs, MS
Vehicle:
2007 Outback XT
Grey 5-speed (sold)

Default

That was kinda a joke, I beat Tom to a set of WL's new links in the private classifieds a couple of weeks ago. Just wondering if he found another set to test.

I would love to here his disclosure on the other links but I wouldnt try to pin him down on it. I like the WLs version as a pretty good compromise between performance and noise. Low compliance urethane bushings entirely isolate the link from the bolts and the bushings extend about 3/4" outside the link on each side to prevent metal to metal contact in extreme movement type sitros. Or at least thats what the literature claims.

ss

Happy owner of Kartboy shifter and shifter bushings, probably the single best mod I have done to improve the driving experience of my car. Very crisp and precise their shifter is.
subysouth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2003, 07:36 PM   #19
PolTec Inc
Vendor
 
Member#: 41768
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Chicago, IL
Default

Tom,

Are you asking me to send my product free of charge to a competitor for some destructive testing? Well, before I give you answer to that, I would like you to answer a few questions:
1. What will your test prove? (e.g. the links are (are not) sufficiently strong for any real application out there, the links are stronger than X brand, ...) I hope that you are not implying that our products are not sufficiently strong to make it in the real world.
2. What load will you subject the link to (magnitude, direction, etc.)?
Once I know the answers to the above questions I can make the decision.

Now, going back to the topic.
Quote:
we did the spherical/sin bronze bushing ones about three years ago. they work ok for a while but the get beat up fairly quick and the bushings get destroyed. hence we went to a custom made urethane bushing.
If I understand you correctly, you did try links with spherical bearings; however those particular bearings did not do so well once mounted on the car (or was it during your testing on the mangler?). Because you tried the spherical bearings first, this leads me to believe (correct me if I am wrong) that this would be your preferred design that unfortunately did not passed your testing.

Personally, I think that using spherical bearings on the links is the best solution from a performance point of view since they allow the sway bar to do only what it has been designed to do, that is transfer force from one side to the other without exerting any other forces on the suspension (the spherical bearings will only allow the tensile and compression forces to be transferred and no torque).

In real life, however, you need to make sacrifices and consider factors other than performance (cost, durability, ease of assembly, comfort, etc.). We selected the best bearings that we could given the price target that we were shooting for, you can see them on this page , item 2995K33. As you can see, they are rated for over 18000 lbs static radial load (6x the imprezas weight).

I am not saying the urethane bushings are inferior (we are selling similar product ourselves), they simply offer different combination of the factors that I mentioned before.

OK. I think I said enough for one post.
PolTec Inc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2003, 08:19 PM   #20
tom@kartboy
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 67
Join Date: Jul 1999
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: San Diego, CA
Vehicle:
1999 Outlasting
the competition.

Default

Requested removal

Last edited by tom@kartboy; 11-19-2003 at 06:25 PM.
tom@kartboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2003, 09:15 PM   #21
Bolster
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 22290
Join Date: Aug 2002
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Vehicle:
2002 STI Ver 9
Spec C Wagon

Default

So which endlink is in the picture (the blue one)?
Bolster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2003, 09:30 PM   #22
PolTec Inc
Vendor
 
Member#: 41768
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Chicago, IL
Default

Quote:
that was more of a joke than anything else.. sorry
No problem, maybe I did take it more seriously than I should. Anyway, If I do have some spares I might send them your way to see how they do, if you do not mind.

The links that I have on my car have already survived one Chicago winter and they are getting ready for the next one, I think there will be no problems. Regarding the noise, I think that they are simply making the sway bar noise more pronounced, by themselves they should not be generating any.

Plain bushings are definitelly more predictable and comfortable.
PolTec Inc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2003, 09:37 PM   #23
Bolster
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 22290
Join Date: Aug 2002
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Vehicle:
2002 STI Ver 9
Spec C Wagon

Default

If I may interject: I've had some trouble with solid bushings: You need longer-than-stock bolts and/or double nuts on them to keep the nuts from backing off under use. I guess it's just the movement of the suspension that causes this. I'm currently running hairpin racing endlinks, which have spherical bearings at both ends. I had to get a set of collars to attach to the bar in order to keep it in place and prevent "walk". I'm wondering if the half-spherical/ half-solid route is the best way overall.
Bolster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2003, 09:42 PM   #24
xfrickx
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 7267
Join Date: Jun 2001
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: SF CA
Vehicle:
1994 Honda VFR RC-36
2002 Subaru 2.5RS

Default

Wow, it looks like the WL wire link would actually be worse than the Stock End links from Toms data. No wonder they were always breaking.
xfrickx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2003, 10:38 PM   #25
tom@kartboy
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 67
Join Date: Jul 1999
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: San Diego, CA
Vehicle:
1999 Outlasting
the competition.

Default

Requested removal

Last edited by tom@kartboy; 11-19-2003 at 06:25 PM.
tom@kartboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
CO-FS New Poltec endlinks and Subaru service manuals. coloradosti Private 'For Sale' Classifieds 13 01-31-2005 03:19 PM
cusco front sway 21mm and poltec endlinks anthonyrb98 Private 'For Sale' Classifieds 5 09-30-2004 07:29 AM
FS: Poltec endlinks mr2guru Private 'For Sale' Classifieds 1 04-27-2004 02:19 PM
Has anyone tried Poltec Endlinks? Rich10 Brakes, Steering & Suspension 10 03-23-2004 01:41 PM
Poltec endlink installed on sti 6 piece lateral link set. OvRclockR Brakes, Steering & Suspension 19 03-17-2004 01:45 PM

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:25 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2024 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2019, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.

As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.

When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission
Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.