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Brakes & Suspension Forum sponsored by The Tire Rack |
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11-14-2003, 02:10 PM | #1 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 37143
Join Date: May 2003
Location: LONG ISLAND , NY
Vehicle:02 WRX Wagon Alpine White |
Noltec vs Poltec and endlink info
Both these companies have endlinks on sale for $85. Does anyone here have any experience with either of these endlinks?
Any thoughts on which one I should buy? Edit: This has turned into some great technical info on endlink performance - check it out.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Last edited by WRXed4good; 11-21-2003 at 12:55 PM. |
11-14-2003, 06:27 PM | #2 | |
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Vehicle:2008 Mazdaspeed3 2006 Wrangler Sport |
Quote:
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11-14-2003, 06:53 PM | #3 |
Scooby Specialist
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They're a vendor here. They've got an add up in the vendor for sales forum right now. If the quality is there the endlinks they offer seem to be a very good bargain.
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11-14-2003, 08:44 PM | #4 |
Vendor
Member#: 41768
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Chicago, IL
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Greetings,
We are a new vendor on NASIOC and only few customers so far. I do not want to compare our products to others but I would like to assure you that if you are not satisfied with our product you can return it for a full refund. Regards Darek PolTec Inc |
11-14-2003, 09:47 PM | #5 | |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 7327
Join Date: Jun 2001
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Quote:
thanks! |
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11-14-2003, 10:42 PM | #6 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 37143
Join Date: May 2003
Location: LONG ISLAND , NY
Vehicle:02 WRX Wagon Alpine White |
can you please give me a link to your website or if you have no website, some sort of listing of the products you sell?
This is their posting . http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...hreadid=453448 |
11-15-2003, 07:46 AM | #7 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 18777
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Fredericksburg, VA
Vehicle:2002 WRX Wagon Sedona Red Pearl |
Adjustable ones
OK well another person making end links look at what Kartboy has started. Wait adjustable ones now Poltec has a smart twist to the norm. Would the two bolts hold the setting for a hard track day though? |
11-15-2003, 09:11 AM | #8 |
Vendor
Member#: 41768
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Chicago, IL
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QUOTE]Would the two bolts hold the setting for a hard track day though?[/quote]
Given that you torque everything properly and the fact the forces on the bolted off of the force axis there is no way that the bolted connection between the two parts of the link can change position. During our testing we were bending the links while the connection stayed the same as set originally while applying forces that were greatly in excess of what the links may see. QUOTE]OK well another person making end links look at what Kartboy has started.[/quote] Guilty as charged, there is no question that Kartboy has designed and is producing a quality product; however you will notice that we offer a variety of options with our links that they do not. Depending on your budget and needs you may pick the one that is best for you. Regards Darek PolTec |
11-17-2003, 10:47 AM | #9 |
Scooby Specialist
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Vehicle:2004 WRX sedan Aspen White |
pretty much all endlinks look the same to me as long as the bushings are solid urethane and the link is a solid piece of aluminum. i got a set for 75 from www.mrjosh43.com and they work fine.
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11-17-2003, 03:28 PM | #10 | |
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Member#: 120
Join Date: Jul 1999
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AKIC
Location: Where the Navy sends me...
Vehicle:1997 Legacy 2.5GT 1996 Impreza coupe |
Quote:
Given that you torque everything properly and the fact the forces on the bolted off of the force axis there is no way that the bolted connection between the two parts of the link can change position. [/quote] I trust that you guys did thorough testing and that the design works, but I'm not sure I understand your explanation. First, "the fact the forces on the bolted off of the force axis" is kinda, uh, gibberish? I think you mis-typed something there. I think I understand what you were trying to say, and if I understand correctly I have to disagree. As one corner of the suspension goes into droop, the endlink is going to pull down on the swaybar to make it follow the lateral link, and that's going to put the endlink into tension. When the suspension compresses, the endlink goes into compression. Those compression and tension cycles will be acting right along the axis of your adjustment. So, you've tested the endlinks and they don't slip, but to say that the force doesn't act along that axis is incorrect. Pat Olsen '97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan Installing coil-overs soon, potential future customer |
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11-17-2003, 11:03 PM | #11 | |
Vendor
Member#: 41768
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Chicago, IL
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Quote:
.F--->O......................O<---F ........I.........................I ........I.........................I ........I.........................I ........I.........................I ........I.........................I ........I....<---R--->.......I ........ \__________....I .............._X____X___/ Please disregard the dots (I could not formate it properly without them). X - SCREWS HOLDING THE TWO PARTS OF THE LINK TOGETHER. O - BEARINGS F - FORCE ACTING ON THE LINK R - INTERNAL REACTION FORCE ON THE BOLTED CONNECTION DUE TO F The link comprises of two parts, each of those parts is subjected to one "F" force and one "R" force. R is equal to F in magnitude but they are acting on a different axis and therefore are creating a torque along the bolted connection. To counteract, the connection also has to carry the torque around each X point. Each of the bolts will slide in a slot if you do not tighten it at all, and it will do it freely. Once you torque it, it then has to resist force R as well as the torque created by R and F. Now assume that you will start to increase the force F, once you increase it past a certain level it will either rotate of slide first. Intuition, and our testing, tells you that it will rotate and thus the screws will be pressing against the walls of the slot creating additional friction that will oppose the sliding. When we tested the links to failure, we could see an imprint of the threads inside the slot while there was no sliding. I hope you can now see better what I had in mind. Regards Darek PolTec Inc |
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11-17-2003, 11:35 PM | #12 |
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Requested removal.
Last edited by tom@kartboy; 11-19-2003 at 06:24 PM. |
11-18-2003, 03:09 AM | #13 |
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OK, I understand. Thanks for the picture and explanation.
Pat |
11-18-2003, 12:16 PM | #14 | |
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Quote:
ss |
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11-18-2003, 01:24 PM | #15 |
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yes, i'd also like to see how the new whitelines did in that test. How much force was put on the one in the above pic?? Was it WAY more then you could in the car??
Justin C |
11-18-2003, 01:41 PM | #16 |
Scooby Specialist
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did you test the mr josh's links?
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11-18-2003, 02:09 PM | #17 |
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OOO this could get messy! I don't think Tom's gonna disclose any info on other manufacturers.
I don't really care though, I got Kartboys! |
11-18-2003, 05:06 PM | #18 |
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That was kinda a joke, I beat Tom to a set of WL's new links in the private classifieds a couple of weeks ago. Just wondering if he found another set to test.
I would love to here his disclosure on the other links but I wouldnt try to pin him down on it. I like the WLs version as a pretty good compromise between performance and noise. Low compliance urethane bushings entirely isolate the link from the bolts and the bushings extend about 3/4" outside the link on each side to prevent metal to metal contact in extreme movement type sitros. Or at least thats what the literature claims. ss Happy owner of Kartboy shifter and shifter bushings, probably the single best mod I have done to improve the driving experience of my car. Very crisp and precise their shifter is. |
11-18-2003, 07:36 PM | #19 | |
Vendor
Member#: 41768
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Chicago, IL
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Tom,
Are you asking me to send my product free of charge to a competitor for some destructive testing? Well, before I give you answer to that, I would like you to answer a few questions: 1. What will your test prove? (e.g. the links are (are not) sufficiently strong for any real application out there, the links are stronger than X brand, ...) I hope that you are not implying that our products are not sufficiently strong to make it in the real world. 2. What load will you subject the link to (magnitude, direction, etc.)? Once I know the answers to the above questions I can make the decision. Now, going back to the topic. Quote:
Personally, I think that using spherical bearings on the links is the best solution from a performance point of view since they allow the sway bar to do only what it has been designed to do, that is transfer force from one side to the other without exerting any other forces on the suspension (the spherical bearings will only allow the tensile and compression forces to be transferred and no torque). In real life, however, you need to make sacrifices and consider factors other than performance (cost, durability, ease of assembly, comfort, etc.). We selected the best bearings that we could given the price target that we were shooting for, you can see them on this page , item 2995K33. As you can see, they are rated for over 18000 lbs static radial load (6x the imprezas weight). I am not saying the urethane bushings are inferior (we are selling similar product ourselves), they simply offer different combination of the factors that I mentioned before. OK. I think I said enough for one post. |
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11-18-2003, 08:19 PM | #20 |
Scooby Guru
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Vehicle:1999 Outlasting the competition. |
Requested removal
Last edited by tom@kartboy; 11-19-2003 at 06:25 PM. |
11-18-2003, 09:15 PM | #21 |
Scooby Specialist
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Vehicle:2002 STI Ver 9 Spec C Wagon |
So which endlink is in the picture (the blue one)?
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11-18-2003, 09:30 PM | #22 | |
Vendor
Member#: 41768
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Chicago, IL
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Quote:
The links that I have on my car have already survived one Chicago winter and they are getting ready for the next one, I think there will be no problems. Regarding the noise, I think that they are simply making the sway bar noise more pronounced, by themselves they should not be generating any. Plain bushings are definitelly more predictable and comfortable. |
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11-18-2003, 09:37 PM | #23 |
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If I may interject: I've had some trouble with solid bushings: You need longer-than-stock bolts and/or double nuts on them to keep the nuts from backing off under use. I guess it's just the movement of the suspension that causes this. I'm currently running hairpin racing endlinks, which have spherical bearings at both ends. I had to get a set of collars to attach to the bar in order to keep it in place and prevent "walk". I'm wondering if the half-spherical/ half-solid route is the best way overall.
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11-18-2003, 09:42 PM | #24 |
Scooby Specialist
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Join Date: Jun 2001
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Vehicle:1994 Honda VFR RC-36 2002 Subaru 2.5RS |
Wow, it looks like the WL wire link would actually be worse than the Stock End links from Toms data. No wonder they were always breaking.
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11-18-2003, 10:38 PM | #25 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 67
Join Date: Jul 1999
Chapter/Region:
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Vehicle:1999 Outlasting the competition. |
Requested removal
Last edited by tom@kartboy; 11-19-2003 at 06:25 PM. |
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