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Old 03-28-2008, 05:25 AM   #1
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Default BMW mulls downsizing M engines, adding turbos

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BMW mulls downsizing M engines, adding turbos





BMW CEO Norbert Reithofer recently revealed plans to phase out diesel V8 engines across the board, but as drastic as this sounds it could be just the tip of the iceberg for the carmaker’s future plans to shakeup its powertrain lineup. BMW’s hallowed ‘M’ division could also be affected by the new wave of environmental consciousness sweeping carmakers across the world, the end result being smaller engines and turbochargers in future M cars.

Speaking with Auto Motor and Sport, Reithofer said BMW would focus on its six-cylinder engines as it attempts to improve emissions and fuel consumption levels in light of stricter regulations set to roll in over the next decade in both the U.S. and Europe. During the same interview he told reporters that he’d like to see future M cars lose a few cylinders and shed more weight. He gave the example of BMW’s brilliant 300hp twin-turbo 3.0L six as a future direction he’d like to take.


Although purists may scoff at the idea of a turbocharged M3 or even M5, it’s a direction rival performance house AMG is likely to take as well, and with the current practice of one-upmanship amongst carmakers BMW may not have a choice.
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Old 03-28-2008, 06:37 AM   #2
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In light of pending EU emission regs, the Germans are going to have to evolve or die.
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Old 03-28-2008, 10:47 AM   #3
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The WTCC 320si makes 280bhp with a 2 liter four cylinder engine.
20 years ago, the E30 M3 made slightly less power (240hp?) with a four cylinder engine.
If the M division stands for Motorsport, there is no reason why the M3 need more than four cylinders.
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Old 03-28-2008, 10:52 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by ej205gga View Post
If the M3 didn't weigh six million pounds, there is no reason why the M3 need more than four cylinders.
fixed?
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Old 03-28-2008, 11:32 AM   #5
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How about making the car itself smaller and lighter?
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Old 03-28-2008, 12:25 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ej205gga View Post
The WTCC 320si makes 280bhp with a 2 liter four cylinder engine.
20 years ago, the E30 M3 made slightly less power (240hp?) with a four cylinder engine.
If the M division stands for Motorsport, there is no reason why the M3 need more than four cylinders.
The E30 M3 made 192-238 hp (192 here). Hardly adequate for a car bound to weigh much more considering todays safety, comfort, and convenience requirements found in the market.
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Old 03-28-2008, 12:26 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by grzydj View Post
How about making the car itself smaller and lighter?
Anyone making a light-weight sports sedan/coupe these days?
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Old 03-28-2008, 12:42 PM   #8
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Anyone making a light-weight sports sedan/coupe these days?

Mazda Miata?
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Old 03-28-2008, 01:38 PM   #9
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Mazda RX-8
fixord
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Old 03-28-2008, 01:48 PM   #10
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I know the original M3 was a four cylinder, but there's something iconoclastic and lovely about BMW straight sixes.
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Old 03-28-2008, 02:10 PM   #11
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thumbs up from me.
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Old 03-28-2008, 03:03 PM   #12
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My thought is...

Performance cars should offer performance. Not power headrest...

If manufacturers would follow this outline than they would sell just as many performance cars thanks to reduced cost from the reduced amount of gadgets and they woudl be able to get just as much performance from a smaller engine thanks to the lighter cars.
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Old 03-28-2008, 04:55 PM   #13
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My thought is...

Performance cars should offer performance. Not power headrest...

If manufacturers would follow this outline than they would sell just as many performance cars thanks to reduced cost from the reduced amount of gadgets and they woudl be able to get just as much performance from a smaller engine thanks to the lighter cars.

PLEASE NOTE:

Performance enthusiasts do not buy performance cars. Over-paid, under-worked executives that are trying to compensate, buy performance cars. There is a very good reason that performance cars are softer and softer with each passing generation - cuz they sell.

I agree that cars have become too fat and bloated, but that is not what the market is showing. If it's gonna take the new CAFE standards and other emission regulations to get car companies to make smaller, lighter weight cars, then so be it... bring on the regulations!
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Old 03-28-2008, 04:58 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spenk View Post
fixord
winnAr!!!

I can has one! Too bad 3000lbs passes for lightweight these days.
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Old 03-28-2008, 05:18 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grzydj View Post
How about making the car itself smaller and lighter?
Just what I was going to write!

Park the new M3 next to an E30 M3 and tel me BMW didnt lose their way on the concept...
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Old 03-28-2008, 05:57 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by ej205gga View Post
The WTCC 320si makes 280bhp with a 2 liter four cylinder engine.
I highly doubt it gets good gas mileage.
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Old 03-28-2008, 06:03 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Hazdaz View Post

PLEASE NOTE:

Performance enthusiasts do not buy performance cars. Over-paid, under-worked executives that are trying to compensate, buy performance cars. There is a very good reason that performance cars are softer and softer with each passing generation - cuz they sell.

I agree that cars have become too fat and bloated, but that is not what the market is showing. If it's gonna take the new CAFE standards and other emission regulations to get car companies to make smaller, lighter weight cars, then so be it... bring on the regulations!
It's also important to point out that many of these customers use their "performance cars" to commute to work...right next to the guy who uses his Expedition to commute to work. It's a sad truth that you absolutely HAVE to have a (relatively) overweight vehicle to stand a chance against all the over sized, tall vehicles on the road today. The really over-paid executives have a true sports car for track days that they don't drive to work every day. I know several of these types...They'll commute in a 3 series, the family SUV or a Prius, but they have bad ass track toys in the garage at home.

I'd like to think that CAFE will mean lighter cars will be more of an option, but I doubt it.
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Old 03-28-2008, 06:04 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazdaz View Post

PLEASE NOTE:

Performance enthusiasts do not buy performance cars. Over-paid, under-worked executives that are trying to compensate, buy performance cars. There is a very good reason that performance cars are softer and softer with each passing generation - cuz they sell.

I agree that cars have become too fat and bloated, but that is not what the market is showing. If it's gonna take the new CAFE standards and other emission regulations to get car companies to make smaller, lighter weight cars, then so be it... bring on the regulations!
Im just saying. The Acura Type R...

Lightweight, stripped and noisey. The best selling Integra model ever with the highest resale value to boot.

They took their best performing motor, made it perform a little more and then stripped all the stuff they could to make the car lighter and basically built a instant winner.
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Old 03-28-2008, 06:09 PM   #19
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The Acura Type R...The best selling Integra model ever...
While I have no facts on hand to back this up, I highly highly highly doubt that's true.
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Old 03-28-2008, 06:16 PM   #20
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^^^^^^^^^^^+1

ITR was a limited-edition model. They sold in very low numbers.
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Old 03-28-2008, 07:48 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetfan8178 View Post
Im just saying. The Acura Type R...

The best selling Integra model ever with the highest resale value to boot.

US ITR Production Numbers by Year

1997 320 (318) 320 Championship White (100%)
1998 1002 (1023) 1002 Championship White (100%)
2000 1355 (1347) 573 Nighthawk Black Pearl (42%) 782 Phoenix Yellow (58%)
2001 1173 (1157) 523 Nighthawk Black Pearl (45%) 650 Phoenix Yellow (55%)

Not so much.
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Old 03-28-2008, 09:09 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Stanley View Post
It's also important to point out that many of these customers use their "performance cars" to commute to work...right next to the guy who uses his Expedition to commute to work. It's a sad truth that you absolutely HAVE to have a (relatively) overweight vehicle to stand a chance against all the over sized, tall vehicles on the road today. The really over-paid executives have a true sports car for track days that they don't drive to work every day. I know several of these types...They'll commute in a 3 series, the family SUV or a Prius, but they have bad ass track toys in the garage at home.

I'd like to think that CAFE will mean lighter cars will be more of an option, but I doubt it.
All this happens in the Bay Erea, get outta here!
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Old 03-28-2008, 10:31 PM   #23
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The Acura Type R... The most stolen Integra model ever with the highest insurance to boot
Fixed.
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Old 03-29-2008, 12:13 AM   #24
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How about making the car itself smaller and lighter?
Not realistic. BMW can offer 410hp M3's and 500hp M5's for (relatively) reasonable money because they're based on high volume models. Now, these volume models (regular 3- and 5-series) are not designed with maximum weight savings in mind because a) using lots of light-weight materials is way too expensive for the bread-and-butter versions and b) 525d and 528i buyers (who are much more important to BMW than a hand full of M5 buyers) will be less than impressed when you tell them that they will have to crank down their windows manually because that will make the car 0.05 sec quicker to 60.

And last but not least...talk is cheap, especially on the internet. Everybody goes on about how they only need a seat and a steering wheel, but when you look at what sells and how even hardcore cars like the Elise or M3 CSL are optioned by their buyers, you realize it's just that...talk.
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Old 03-29-2008, 12:27 AM   #25
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not surprising, ford is doing the same with their pickups, bye bye v8
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