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Old 04-02-2009, 03:42 PM   #1
KillerBMotorsport
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Default OEM Oil Pickup Failures - Explained

I’ve gotten many requests for detailed information regarding the Oil Pickup, both OEM and the one I sell so I thought I’d post, what I know, for everyone to see. Specifically the questions seemed to be about the factory pickup and how/why it fails. Bear in mind this is information that has been presented to me and I am no scientist.

So on to the factory pickups… They are brazed assemblies (it's kind of like welding, but more like soldering with temperatures much lower than welding ~800 degrees. The braze is the gold stuff you see between the parts, see pictures here). For the braze to properly hold the metal pieces together this stuff called 'flux' is put on the areas where the braze will be applied. The flux makes sure that when the parts are heated up that the braze flows between and sticks to the metal parts properly. When operators, or machines, puts the flux on these parts to get them ready for brazing, the flux must AT LEAST cover the area that needs to be brazed together. So the application of the flux is typically quite liberal and sloppy.

This application of flux and brazing seems to be done properly because I've never seen a braze joint failure. The problem is that the flux SHOULD be cleaned from the parts after the brazing process has been completed. We'll come back to this in a second.


Now the tube, where the failures occur, is a simple thin (~.030") wall seam welded tube. A seam welded tube is basically a long skinny flat piece of metal that gets rolled into a tube and then welded where the ends meet. If you look at some of the pics in my link above you'll see a distinct line that runs the length of the tube. That's the weld. Welded tubing has its downside. While cheap, the weld can be the achilies heal if not done properly. When done properly a weld in low carbon steel will be harder, stronger and more brittle. In this situation it's a rougher surface too (when you look under a microscope, compared to the non-welded areas). Anytime there is an irregularity on the surface of a material with lumps, bumps, pits, etc., it creates a weakness.


OK so let’s get back to the braze… When not removed from certain process affected areas, specifically a hardened brittle weld, it will get into any micro pock mark or pit when it's applied and heated and a chemical reaction will occur. The flux reacts with the specific metal condition of the weld (harder and pits, etc..) and will etch into the pits making them deeper... and can also make the metal more brittle too. This is what ends up weakening the tube to the point of crack formation. And the fact that it's bolted to the bottom of an engine and exposed to vibrations doesn't help either.


Speaking to vibrations and engines modified with bolt-ons. Engine vibration is not as much a contributing factor as you might initially think for a few reasons. The rotating assemblies are fairly well balanced and harmonically dampened. The oil pickup is submerged in oil, and filled with oil. This dampens the engine vibrations tremendously at the pickup. Some assume the pickup is just swinging around from the engine vibrations, but forget that the pickup is also in oil and full of oil. Now where high frequency vibrations do come from is the oil pump. Typically called ‘high frequency pressure pulsation’, these lower amplitude pulses can have a more pronounced affect because of harmonics that can build in the pickup assembly, possibly where a critical frequency may be being reached at certain RPMs (speed of the oil pump).

So essentially, based on what I have experienced and learned, the OEM oil pickup failures are initiated from a chemical reaction from braze flux on the weld seam and these weakened areas are taken advantage of by oil pump induced high frequency vibrations.
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Old 04-05-2009, 02:31 PM   #2
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Thanks for the PMs guys. If anyone else wants more technical info please feel free to PM me.
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Old 04-09-2009, 12:51 AM   #3
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wow makes alot of sense
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Old 04-09-2009, 08:25 AM   #4
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What application are these (Upgraded pickup tubes) for. Are these necessary on the newer 2.5L motors, more specifically the 2009 WRX?
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Old 04-09-2009, 08:59 AM   #5
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Well if you take a look at this poll (click here) you'll see most models are affected. The same pickup is used on all 2.5 Impreza after 2006, and that particular version pickup is the most inconsistent as far as mileage when failure occurs. At least the 2005 and earlier year versions you know you can get at least 30K out of them before failure. This is based on the data I've seen anyway.
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Old 04-09-2009, 10:05 AM   #6
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Roger that. Where can I pick one up? Is fast wrx still the only vendor? Is installation as easy as simply draining the oil, dropping the pan, unbolting the old part and then bolting up the new part?

Last edited by Suby Noob; 04-09-2009 at 10:24 AM.
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Old 04-09-2009, 10:25 PM   #7
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You can purchase one HERE

and find installation directions HERE

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Old 04-10-2009, 10:58 AM   #8
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Maybe I am missing something, but I don't see any instructions on the link you provided.
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Old 04-10-2009, 12:56 PM   #9
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Hmmm... I just clicked it, and everything was there. Anyone else not able to view this? PM me your e-mail and I can send it that way.
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Old 04-10-2009, 04:51 PM   #10
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Hmmm.m...I need to look at this more often.....
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Old 04-11-2009, 05:32 PM   #11
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may be a retarded question but:
what are the symtoms? being as i do not have an oil pressure guage. assuming the oil light would come on, but anything else? noises etc.
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Old 04-11-2009, 08:19 PM   #12
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P-iff, even if you had a guage it might not necessarily let you catch it in time. Failure is often rapid, because even when a crack starts to develop it will still suck oil to the pump. The pressure guage shows pressure after the pump and is not an ideal indicator of what's going on before the pump. There are some instances (I'm speaking from second hand information from other threads on here and other forums) where a pressure guage showed a decrease in pressure before complete failure. Personally at the flow rates this lubrication system is suposed to operate at, if there was a failure you'd have to be watching the guage as it happens and shut it down quickly! I don't watch my guages constantly, especially when flogging it Here's a pic of the lubrication system specs so you can see what I mean as far as how much oil (quarts per minute) should be flowing at higher RPMs.

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Old 04-13-2009, 11:12 AM   #13
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Thanks for the positive feedback guys!
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Old 04-17-2009, 08:48 PM   #14
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Guys thanks for all your support. The groupbuy sold out in 13 days. There will be another one coming soon!
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Old 04-18-2009, 02:39 PM   #15
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Here's a clip form an article I found on the American Welders Society website. If anyone wanted a second source regarding what I've said about the braze flux etching the tubing.

Cleaning the Brazed Assembly

Postcleaning of brazed assemblies is done primarily to remove flux residue. Flux removal is a simple, but essential, operation for one reason. Flux residue is corrosive and if not removed can attack the base metal or braze filler metal, possibly weakening the joint. Since most fluxes are water soluble, the easiest way to remove them is to submerse the assembly in hot water (150°F or hotter).

You can use more elaborate methods of removing flux as well, such as an ultrasonic cleaning tank to speed the action of the hot water. Or, if the assembly is too large to submerse in hot water, hot-pressure washing or live steam may be viable options.

Quenching the assembly in hot water will crack the flux off and expedite the flux removal procedure. However, avoid quenching assemblies having base metals with large differences in coefficient of expansion (such as tungsten carbide to steel) or assemblies with vastly different cross sections; otherwise, the base metal or joint may fracture. When in doubt, allow the assembly to cool slowly to ambient temperature before submersing it in water. After removing the flux, you can remove residual oxides by acid pickling or mechanical cleaning.
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Old 05-10-2009, 12:02 AM   #16
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Answered some PMs. Thanks for the support guys, it's nice hearing it.
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Old 05-19-2009, 11:04 PM   #17
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Here's a good pic of the flux on 2005 pickup ~30,000 miles. This style doesn't typically fail before the 40K mile mark, but as you can see, failure appears to be in the future of this pickup.

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Old 05-21-2009, 01:33 AM   #18
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so when is the next group buy? were there any non-payers on the last one?
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Old 05-21-2009, 07:11 AM   #19
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There's a groupbuy going on right now. Click HERE.

Never had a non-payer. I'd like to try to keep some in stock, but they tend to sell as fast as I make them.
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Old 05-21-2009, 09:07 AM   #20
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just put down on 1/2 payment

thanks
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Old 05-21-2009, 10:36 AM   #21
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What material is the braze? Would a Blacklabs oil report show that the pickup tube is weakening in a high reading for a certain metal material?
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Old 05-21-2009, 11:34 AM   #22
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The braze material likely wouldn't show up because the breaks are typically just off the braze, about 1/4"-1/2" from the flange. Also, IMO the time period from the time the first crack completely penetrates the tubing wall thickness to propogating all the way around the tube is very short. Catching it in an oil analysis, or with a guage, seems like a tremendious gamble. Especially considering a crack will cause flow loss, that might not kill your motor right away, but can definitly cause rapid increased wear.

If the tube were failing you'd see high concentrations of carbon steel in the oil report.
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Old 05-27-2009, 10:04 AM   #23
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I was looking through some threads on Legacygt.com and it looks like some people may have done an oil analysis to try and catch this. I coldn't find any conclusive data in my quick scan of the thread, but it might be there.
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Old 05-27-2009, 10:31 PM   #24
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Thankyou, I recieved my pick-up today; it is built by an expert!
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Old 05-27-2009, 11:19 PM   #25
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Thanks silver-duck, glad you like it.
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