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05-22-2002, 05:01 AM | #1 |
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hans device anyone?
Does anyone here who tracks or races use a Hans Device?
http://www.hansdevice.com/ Gary? I'm curious whether or not this is a good idea for someone who does a few DE track events a year.
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05-24-2002, 10:03 PM | #2 |
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Well, since no one else replied ...
I do not use one for DE/Lapping. I have never seen one used in non WTW events. Were I you, I'd buy a good nomex suit, shoes, gloves, SA-Rated helmet, neck brace, fire bottle, race seat and 5 or 6 point harness. Then decide if you still need the HANS. I went out and bought nomex after a car in front of me at an HPDE blew a tranny line and caught fire. I bought 5-points after bruising my kneees trying to brace myself. I bought the neck brace after tightening the new harnesses - you realize quick that in a crash only your NECk will move ... No point taking chances with your life by skimping on the gear. |
05-25-2002, 05:32 AM | #3 |
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Seeing as how no one as of yet has PROVEN that a hans device does anything positive, while having no downsides, I'd give it a miss for a good long time.
Oh and they already make a wonderous device that saves your neck. Its those little foam neck protectors that go between your helmet and your shoulders. I've heard they work well and are under $20. |
05-25-2002, 07:07 PM | #4 |
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XT6Wagon,
Your logic is similar to those that don't wear seatbelts because they can trap you in a car after a crash. The HANS device will prevent your head from taking a journey away from your shoulders in a head on impact. It IS proven that having an unrestrained head in a violent head-on impact will cause basal skull fracture. How can you doubt the value of this device? Those foam neckbraces do very little in supporting your head in hard impacts. They will absorb some load and perhaps prevent a strained neck muscle in a mild impact, but will not help at all in a big one. I don't currently use a HANS device. I will be purchasing one as soon as my budget allows. I am convinced that this is one of the break-through safety devices of our time. Gary Sheehan Motor Racing www.teamSMR.com |
05-25-2002, 09:17 PM | #5 |
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Gary, all I've seen is a couple doctors saying it "should" prevent neck injuries, and little in the way of REAL testing of any kind.
While I don't doubt it helps atleast some, there isn't anything to PROVE its effectiveness, or find out if it CAUSES problems. If I was going to plop down that kind of $$ for a safetly device its DEAD LAST on my list. Of course for top level motor sports it usualy is the last thing as everything else is already mandated. |
05-26-2002, 02:03 AM | #6 |
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I personally don't think that it is effective on anything but ovals, if you take a little elementary physics you will learn that it is not important how fast you are going when you crash but how fast you stop. In other words you can encounter as many Gs in a 35 mph crash as you can in a 125mph crash. This is why on ovals they may or may not improve safety, on an oval there is no run off and you hit the wall after scrubbing off a minimum of speed and then bam into the wall and you are going 0, that is why there are so many Basal Skull Fractures. On a road course or during a rally stage there are usually a little bit of run off area or a gravel trap that gradually decreases speed and a tire barrier that absorbs energy and dissipates force and also slowly reduces speeds. The exception to the above comment would be when you hit a tree on a rally stage which can also be very traumatic. As a person that has some insights into thousands of traffic accidents which I gained at the Los Angeles County Coroner I found that there were very few incidents of Basal skull fracture almost never because the average traffic accident occurs gradually, loss of control, skidding, then impact the entire deceleration was gradual. The times when we did see basal skull fractures were in accidents where people were involved in head on collisions or collided with walls or poles and even in those cases it was still rare. I feel that the combination of high speed and lack of run off areas create a unique set of forces that only apply to oval racing. My conclusion is that unless you are on an oval you do not need one and perhaps not even a HANS device would have saved Greg Moore, Dale Earnhardt, or Adam Petty I wish that we could have conclusive evidence but I do not believe in unproven one size fits all band aids.
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05-27-2002, 12:01 AM | #7 |
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Ummmm....first of all, the idea that you can only get hurt going around in circles is ludicrous. That's all I can say about that. It's just a stupid idea.
Second, you might want to consider the fact that the HANS device (and the other one - forget the name) will be mandatory in many international series - F1, CART, NASCAR, etc. I think (feel free to flame me for this) the medical advisors for those series might know a thing or two about racing accidents. The fact is that people that race in the amateur and lower professional ranks are offered the least in terms of safety - the least strenuous safety rules, the least safe cars and DEFINITELY the least safe tracks. Some of the tracks here in Colorado have ridiculously dangerous situations - the track owners simply don't have the budgets of the big national tracks to properly fix them. And the racers put up with it because, well because they're racers and there's nowhere else to race. Not to put the track owners down - they operate on a shoe-string or less budget and we're just lucky they keep the tracks open at all. So you need to do everything you can to keep yourself safe. If you have the budget, it's an excellent idea. |
05-27-2002, 04:54 AM | #8 |
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First if you had read my first post carefully you would have noticed that i did not say that you can only get hurt racing on ovals but that they produce a unique set of forces in accidents. Yes I questioned the HANS device's effectiveness in all other types of racing except ovals since I clearly pointed out ovals present a unique set of forces that can lead to Basal Skull Fractures. I totally agree that the lowest rungs on the racing ladder have the lowest safety standards (Ask Alan Mc Nish how he broke his legs) I agree whole-heartedly with your assesment of many racing facilities around the USA. You point to the mandates that people use HANS in F1 and Cart but neither of these series have yet to make them mandatory (in F1 it was supposed to be this year but it has been pushed back because they are still researching the effectiveness) and Cart does not madate that all drivers use the device. If you are pointing to NASCAR them I am sorry but they required it as a knee jerk reaction to three tragic deaths that were caused by a combination of factors including poor track design, poor car design, and forrces unique to ovals. You can experience a high G load in any accident including one that you get into driving to the market and believe me I have been witness to the aftermath of more traffic accidents then you will see in your lifetime. Before any race goes and sinks a ton of cash into a device that may or may not be effective why don't they sink money into things that are proven to be effective like a good cage, a three layer suit, new helmet, nomex lined boots, or a good fuel cell. Do you know how many times I see "Where can I get the cheapest cage" posted in this forum? Racers are not victims, in fact to race at any level you need to have a sizeable income if you do not like the way your local track is being run then you should lead the charge to change things. IF you are really interested in safety why don't you work with the promoter to enact changes and help them out with their "shoe-string budgets" and improve overall facility safety I would bet that this would save more lives then buying a HANS device for your self.
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05-27-2002, 02:41 PM | #9 |
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At one point in time people argued that there was no proof belts would save lives, insisting that it was better to be thrown from the vehicle than to be tied to it.
My advice, if you feel better wearing one, BUY IT! There is no question in my mind that a device which might prevent your head and neck from violent forward lashing in a head-on collision is a good thing. How people can even argue that there is no proof devices like these are better used than not used is astounding. Danger is part of the rush, but dying because your head became separated from your upper spine is not a pleasant way to go. |
05-27-2002, 03:04 PM | #10 | |
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Quote:
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05-27-2002, 03:12 PM | #11 |
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Huh? Must admit, this one goes right over my head in the context of this thread.
If you're saying speed limits are pointless, I agree to an extent. But in America, where so few people have any idea what they are doing behind the wheel and a license can easily be gotten by literally anyone, what choice do we have? Most of the Autobahns have speed limits these days. If you're saying we should all drive around at 55mph all the time...you get one of these. :monkey: |
05-27-2002, 03:34 PM | #12 |
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As was once said to Groucho Marx "sir, you try my patience", where upon he replied "don't mind if I do, you should try mine some time"
I was just adding another falacy to the seatbelts don't save lives bit with sarcasm That was the slogan the idiots used to use to keep the 55 limit. Personally, I'd rather see us go to the Euro way of doing things. Stringent tests BEFORE someone gets their driver's lisc. Then we too could have Autobahn speed limits. But instead, we can get ours from a cracker jack box. You don't see beat up pickups with fenders falling off, and leaf blowers falling out of the back in Germany either, do you? Another nice rule they have too. Anyway, I have not used a Hans device, nor seen them before this. But it looks like it can help. |
05-27-2002, 03:44 PM | #13 |
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"I'd rather see us go to the Euro way of doing things. Stringent tests BEFORE someone gets their driver's lisc. Then we too could have Autobahn speed limits. But instead, we can get ours from a cracker jack box."
Amen brother, you're preaching to the choir now. The HANS device has actually been around for quite sometime...just came to the forefront after Dale Earnhardt's wreck at Daytona last year. |
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