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Old 12-28-2009, 10:32 AM   #851
LGT+WRX
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Originally Posted by LGT+WRX View Post
With the WS60, I don't have any personal experience - but it's interesting to note that Michelin, in marketing their Xi2, specifically claimed ~75% better tread-life/wear than the WS60s, and Bridgestone has yet to whip out the legal stick to beat back this claim...and as tires are a *hotly* contested battleground, one can only wonder if there's just so much truth to this claim that Bridgestone simply can't fire back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke@tirerack
Michelin had contracted with an outside company that conducted road wear testing. After x,000 miles, they compare wear rates and extrapolate to worn out. Michelin's calculation goes all the way to 2/32". Of course, no one would ever want to drive in the winter on a tire worn that much. Interestingly, Michelin molds a snow platform wear indicator into the tire at approx. 6/32" remaining depth, which is a good point to replace the tire if snow is in your future. So, I'm not sure how realistic their claim is.
Agreed - I definitely would not want to push it to 2/32".

But here's the kicker on that logic.

Assuming that we are going all the way to "thru" depth, the Bridgestones also will wear through their proprietary enhanced Tube Multi Cell "surface" compounding by the time ~ 50 to 55% of their tread has expired - i.e. at "minimal winter depth."

Thereafter, they utilize a winter compound which, as we've seen with the initial Michelin "promo" tests/comparos of the Xi2s (i.e. Canadian Driver's 2008 preview) - where the tires were shaved down to half-tread - is comparatively much more traction compromised.

I think that no matter which way it's cut, the simple fact that Bridgestone has not aggressively counter-claimed against what Michelin has put forward regarding the treadwear comparison of its Xi2 versus the WS60 speaks volumes.


agreed ... and the multi-cell ends at about the same tread depth manufacturers place the snow platform. Typically tire companies are slow the counter advertising claims or, as I believe in this particular case, the company on the losing end of the comparison is either redesigning their entry or conducting their own tests. I think we could see a new entry into the winter tire field by Bridgestone.

Michelin was well in to designing the XI2 before the world wide economic melt down. As we have seen in the past Bridgestone has a way of raising the bar time and time again. It's pretty interesting watching the technology develop in this manner. Just like it has been interesting watching the STi / EVO battle evolve.
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Last edited by LGT+WRX; 12-29-2009 at 11:14 AM. Reason: Edited to clarify initial quoting
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Old 12-28-2009, 11:44 AM   #852
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year: 2006
make: Subaru
model:WRX wagon ( 4 Pot)
location:NY
tires only or winter package: 16 " Package

Luke, I see the website have Gold Gram lights special, 16x7, plus Dunlop Sports 3D. Will that package work well on my 06 wrx ?

Thank you.

not only would it work very well but, it would also look good

Last edited by Luke@tirerack; 12-29-2009 at 02:55 PM.
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Old 12-28-2009, 03:15 PM   #853
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Default Nice Job on this Guide: Nokians?

I noticed there are no Nokians highlighted, at least as I can see. Great rep on this brand obviously. I am thinking of dropping the coin for upgrades on the 09 WRX that only specs a summer tire.

Thoughts?
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Old 12-29-2009, 11:16 AM   #854
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^ TireRack does not carry Nokians.


------


Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke@tirerack
agreed ... and the multi-cell ends at about the same tread depth manufacturers place the snow platform. Typically tire companies are slow the counter advertising claims or, as I believe in this particular case, the company on the losing end of the comparison is either redesigning their entry or conducting their own tests. I think we could see a new entry into the winter tire field by Bridgestone.

Michelin was well in to designing the XI2 before the world wide economic melt down. As we have seen in the past Bridgestone has a way of raising the bar time and time again. It's pretty interesting watching the technology develop in this manner. Just like it has been interesting watching the STi / EVO battle evolve.
I don't doubt that for a minute - it's most interesting to watch (and sometimes participate in, although I wish I had the cash to participate in it, EACH round! ) this ongoing battle of technology and innovation.

In the end, it all works to the benefit of us, the end-consumers.

Better tires simply makes us safer.
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Old 12-29-2009, 01:09 PM   #855
leftback
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Default WRX sedan - Dunlop SP 3D

year: 2003
make: Subaru
model:WRX sedan
location: Boston, MA
tires only or winter package: package

Hi Luke,

After reading through this feed I'm thinking of getting the Dunlop SP 3D 91H with Sport Edition F7. I live in Boston so most of the driving is there or around Massachusetts. I'm also going to go to the O'Neil Winter driving school this winter.
Any other tires I should consider?

If I get the package from Tirerack can I mount the wheels to the car myself or is there any reason to take to a shop.
Thanks


good choice for a performance winter driving school and winter use in the MA area

Last edited by Luke@tirerack; 12-29-2009 at 02:56 PM.
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Old 12-29-2009, 01:30 PM   #856
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Well, I neded up getting the WS60's for $600 installed and balanced. We will see how the wear goes. The LM's were not in stock for 17" and seemingly are difficult to procure. I took the outback for a spin on some snow/ice last night and found it difficult to loose traction. Using my exsiting Toyo Tourevo's if it smelled ice it began to spin with fear. For now the WS60's seem to be worth the investment.
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Old 12-29-2009, 06:43 PM   #857
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ripn View Post
year: 2005
make: Subaru
model: Outback XT
location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Tires only, for stock rims. (225/55R17)

Valley and mountain conditions vary considerably. Work commute is 25 miles round trip, mostly freeway which is cleared quickly. Ski 30 + days a season in the local canyons, which receive 500 + inches of snow per winter. Canyon roads are plowed aggressively, but during storms, conditions can be heinous. Have it narrowed down to the WS 60's and the XI2's. Like the idea of longer tread life and better dry performance on the Xi's but don't want to give up much in the snow traction department. Any other tire I should consider? Also torn on road hazard...worth the bucks?


X-Ice Xi2 would be the tire of choice
same location, very similar circumstance for me, except for:

2002 subaru wrx wagon, cobb stage 2
16" stock dedicated winter wheels

my commute is closer to 35 miles round-trip, with both freeways and neighborhood surface streets (not cleared so well), similar # of ski days.

i have some hankook w404s on now but would prefer a better "performance" speed rated winter tire as my driving would probably be characterized as "spirited." i do like the dry performance of the bridgestone blizzak lm-22s on my 911, but i haven't driven that car in heavy snow. what do you think?

what performance winters are best?

Last edited by WillieBill; 12-30-2009 at 05:19 PM. Reason: details
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Old 12-29-2009, 10:43 PM   #858
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^ It's the ski days of that part of the equation that has me thinking "Studless Ice & Snows" would be a better choice.

However, given your confession for wanting some fun in the clear, on a stock-height or even slightly lowered WRX, unless you manage to high-center her, I can virtually guaranty that you won't get stuck, with "even only" "Performance Winters" shod.

So, again, we come to that age-old question - which side of the performance equation are you more willing to compromise on?

Hard to say, either way - personal choice.
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Old 12-30-2009, 05:08 PM   #859
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leftback View Post
I'm also going to go to the O'Neil Winter driving school this winter.

If I get the package from Tirerack can I mount the wheels to the car myself or is there any reason to take to a shop.
I've done the Team O'Neil Winter driving school twice; its a blast!

Yes you can mount the wheels yourself; its no different from changing a flat 4 times. Can be a pain in the winter though, and a garage should not charge you a huge amount.
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Old 12-30-2009, 05:10 PM   #860
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year:2009
make:subaru
model:sti
location:tri-state area New york
tires only or winter package: looking to pick up all seasons

I like the Bridgestone Potenza RE960 and the Michelin Pilot Sport AS+
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Old 12-31-2009, 01:48 PM   #861
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Just a follow up to my response. I ended up getting the Firestone winterforce (http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....el=Winterforce) I had them mounted locally at the Firestone store. M+B with road hazard was like 320$.

We just got some snow in SE CT recently and they are a good tire so far. No complaints. Nice and grippy and sure footed.
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Old 01-01-2010, 01:39 AM   #862
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Year: 2008
Model: subaru forester
Type: fsxt
Location: long island, ny
Tire only or Winter package: Tires

luke have you had any subie customers purchase any 225/50/18 tires? i see there are a few closeout blizzak lm25s lying around. the car rides on an sti suspension + 1" lift kit(~stock wrx height). im trying to figure out if they will fit or not?

if not do you recommend any other 18" winter tires?

Last edited by wrxtremeWGN; 01-03-2010 at 11:22 PM.
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Old 01-02-2010, 09:24 AM   #863
Caleb 6R
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Well, some more impressions on the General Altimax, Dry traction in cold weather is much better then in the warmer stuff. Snow traction in deep or light snow is excellent. But i seem to be experiencing some major under steer going into slow speed corners. Like 10-25 km/h, i'm wondering if its a tire pressure issue? I'm running the stock pressures 33 front and 32 rear. Should i bump up the front pressure a bit? Any input would be great.

Thanks Caleb
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Old 01-02-2010, 11:52 AM   #864
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Year: 2009
Model: Subaru
Type: 2.5i
Location: Northern Virginia
Tires only or Winter Package: Tires Only

I have actually been looking through tire rack trying to decide between two sets of winter tires. Actually mostly just the size. I currently have 205/55 R16 and wanted a little bit bigger tire. I am looking at 205/60R16 but I was not too sure if that tire would be too big in diameter for my car or if I would notice a big difference in acceleration?

Thanks!


I would suggest the 205/55-16

Last edited by Luke@tirerack; 01-04-2010 at 02:06 PM.
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Old 01-02-2010, 07:22 PM   #865
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Year: 2005
Model:Subaru Impreza
Type: STI
Location: Central MD/Northern WV (in WV every weekend)
Tire only or Winter package: Tires

Im currently running Nokians on my 2.5RS for the winter and LOVE them, however Im picking up an STI sometime in the next month or so and need some winter tires. Id prefer to spend under $140 a tire.

spring for the additional $6 and get the "V" speed rated Winter Sport 3D's @ $146

Last edited by Luke@tirerack; 01-04-2010 at 02:08 PM.
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Old 01-03-2010, 05:27 PM   #866
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I am looking for 205/50//17 I am currently torn between
Conti extreme winter contacts $108 each T rated
Dunlop wintersport 3D's $132 each V rated
Michelin X-ice xi2 $118 each T rated
are the Dunlops worth the extra money?
I live in central Mass and need to get to work no matter what the weather or road conditions, but don't want to sacrifice too much highway/handling drive-ability.
05 LGT

this phrase is the key ...
Quote:
need to get to work no matter what the weather or road conditions,
get the Michelins as they offer more ice and snow grip than the other two

Last edited by Luke@tirerack; 01-04-2010 at 01:51 PM.
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Old 01-03-2010, 09:55 PM   #867
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You mean Conti Winter Contacts right?
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Old 01-04-2010, 11:42 PM   #868
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superhawk44 View Post




get the Michelins as they offer more ice and snow grip than the other two
Ordered, thank you.
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Old 01-05-2010, 09:39 AM   #869
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caleb 6R View Post
Well, some more impressions on the General Altimax, Dry traction in cold weather is much better then in the warmer stuff. Snow traction in deep or light snow is excellent. But i seem to be experiencing some major under steer going into slow speed corners. Like 10-25 km/h, i'm wondering if its a tire pressure issue? I'm running the stock pressures 33 front and 32 rear. Should i bump up the front pressure a bit? Any input would be great.

Thanks Caleb
^ Definitely play with pressures a bit - I typically need to take the entire first season to figure out where I want it.

Also, let the tires break-in a bit. They'll become noticeably better after you've scrubbed through the mold-release.
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Old 01-05-2010, 11:15 AM   #870
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LGT+WRX View Post
^ Definitely play with pressures a bit - I typically need to take the entire first season to figure out where I want it.

Also, let the tires break-in a bit. They'll become noticeably better after you've scrubbed through the mold-release.
Thanks! Problem is the shop filled them with Nitrogen and i have no other way then going back to the shop to get them filled. I was told not to use air. So i might just empty the tires and refill with air.
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Old 01-05-2010, 12:59 PM   #871
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oh man

you can use air to top off nitrogen filled tires, air is 78% nitrogen, if I remember correctly.

Krzys

PS And nitrogen fill is mostly to remove water (in water vapour form) from air. Pure oxygen fill may not be safe in case of fire, just like hydrogen fill (the only worse thing would be to fill tire with hydrogen/oxygen mix).
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Old 01-05-2010, 04:22 PM   #872
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you are correct 78%
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Old 01-05-2010, 09:48 PM   #873
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year: 2008
make: subaru
model: outback sport
location: Albany, NY
tires only or winter package:winter package

I just bought my car and desprately need new tires on it for the winter. I am thinking that I will get a dedicated set of snow's, and am deciding between the Blizzak WS60 and the Michelin X-Ice Xi2. I do a lot of highway driving to and from Ithaca in the snow and cold (there is often ice on the road), and my daily commute is often through snow covered roads. Do you see a major difference between these two?

Since I am planning to get a set of rims with them too, is there an advantage in handling or traction if I go with 16" or 15" rather than the stock 17"?

Thanks!
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Old 01-06-2010, 10:41 AM   #874
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Just going on what the dealer said, i knew better, i've already adjusted my pressures. Just need more snow to tweak. Thanks Guys, that guy at the tire shop was a douche anyways.
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Old 01-06-2010, 01:14 PM   #875
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that guy at the tire shop was a douche anyways.
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