Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Thursday March 28, 2024
Home Forums Images WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Built Motor Discussion

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.







* As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. 
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-17-2008, 04:06 PM   #1
mxpunk
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 132130
Join Date: Nov 2006
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Austin, Texas
Vehicle:
2002 Ford F-150
Graphite Gray

Default mxpunk's phase II ej22e wrx build!

I bought her last night, should be here in another 2 weeks or so! hopefully Jay (Storm) will send her sometime soon. i was supposed to get it awhile ago but i ran into some snags along the way

list so far (will be updated)
99 EJ22E block (open deck)
revised phase II ej205 crank (has cross drilled holes)
OEM ej22t pistons
oem ej22t rings
some type of forged rod?
97-98 ej22e phase I headgasket (3-layer)
ARP headstuds
acl race bearings
04+ wrx heads (maybe)
16g/18g turbo
sti tmic
more updates later

Reserved

I decided to keep my wrx stock w/ its 2 liter engine. i will build this block in my spare time and drop a bigger turbo in it and abuse this block. when/if i have to sell it i can always revert it back to stock.

im shooting for 300+ whp and or 110-115 mph traps on 93 octane. no meth, race gas, etc

yes i know it can be done on the 2.0 but, id like to do something different.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

Last edited by mxpunk; 12-18-2008 at 10:52 AM.
mxpunk is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 12-17-2008, 04:07 PM   #2
mxpunk
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 132130
Join Date: Nov 2006
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Austin, Texas
Vehicle:
2002 Ford F-150
Graphite Gray

Default

well jay came through, i guess he got off his bum on his vacation day and was nice enough to send it almost as soon as i paid him. gotta give him props cause if i was on vacation i wouldnt send **** out until it was over








Last edited by mxpunk; 12-23-2008 at 10:28 PM.
mxpunk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2008, 04:11 PM   #3
mxpunk
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 132130
Join Date: Nov 2006
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Austin, Texas
Vehicle:
2002 Ford F-150
Graphite Gray

Default






Last edited by mxpunk; 12-23-2008 at 11:43 PM.
mxpunk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2008, 04:11 PM   #4
mxpunk
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 132130
Join Date: Nov 2006
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Austin, Texas
Vehicle:
2002 Ford F-150
Graphite Gray

Default






Last edited by mxpunk; 12-23-2008 at 11:44 PM.
mxpunk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2008, 04:25 PM   #5
kellygnsd
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 32669
Join Date: Feb 2003
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Woodland Hills
Vehicle:
2007 2.34LR, EFR7670
LINK G4+ hybrid STi

Default

Aren't you the guy that hates hybrids?
kellygnsd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2008, 04:33 PM   #6
mxpunk
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 132130
Join Date: Nov 2006
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Austin, Texas
Vehicle:
2002 Ford F-150
Graphite Gray

Default

2.5L hybrids, yes.
mxpunk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2008, 04:52 PM   #7
AWDWRXLOVER
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 50267
Join Date: Dec 2003
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Vehicle:
02 built hybrid
sr55/meth/sick speed

Default

so built motor and only 300 whp goal?
AWDWRXLOVER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2008, 05:28 PM   #8
mxpunk
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 132130
Join Date: Nov 2006
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Austin, Texas
Vehicle:
2002 Ford F-150
Graphite Gray

Default

^^ semi built i should say. the title says build...not BUILT.

the only built thing about it may be the rods..other wise its all stock stuff.

i just want to play with bigger turbos and not worry about down time due to a motor eating itself.
mxpunk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2008, 08:19 PM   #9
FuJi K
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 3687
Join Date: Jan 2001
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: St. Paul, MN
Vehicle:
MY99 GF4 JDM 6spd
NF Performance

Default

Remember it is 97-98 EJ22E headgasket; 3layer PHASE1. '99-01 are 1 layer Phase2.

There's a '97 Legacy at Upull and I thinks I'm going to go over and grab that shortblock, swap my EJ22T pistons in and put my car back together quickly!!! muahahh
FuJi K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2008, 08:25 PM   #10
reddevil
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 64673
Join Date: Jun 2004
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: portland
Vehicle:
1990 Legacy wagon
goes 12.387 @ 116.5

Default

Go with the stock STI rods.
reddevil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2008, 08:29 PM   #11
mxpunk
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 132130
Join Date: Nov 2006
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Austin, Texas
Vehicle:
2002 Ford F-150
Graphite Gray

Default

^ 2.5L share the same stroke? actually i read that all EJ motors share the same stroke, but i never looked into it. i just knew all phase 1 EJ18,20,22 shared the same stroke and the cranks were interchangeable
mxpunk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2008, 08:46 PM   #12
mxpunk
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 132130
Join Date: Nov 2006
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Austin, Texas
Vehicle:
2002 Ford F-150
Graphite Gray

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FuJi K View Post
Remember it is 97-98 EJ22E headgasket; 3layer PHASE1. '99-01 are 1 layer Phase2.

There's a '97 Legacy at Upull and I thinks I'm going to go over and grab that shortblock, swap my EJ22T pistons in and put my car back together quickly!!! muahahh
hows the 2.2L with the OEM wrx trans? do you know? i know you are rocking a jdm 6speed w/ dccd so im sure a 1.5L would feel torquey..

i like the way my stock wrx motor feels now, its very smooth, but the gearing sucks. boost drops off between shifts pretty bad and the gears are really really long, which is annoying in traffic because i was used to lugging it in my old 96 2.2L OBS waggoon. i guess i should jut get used to crusing around in 4th gear unless im going down hill or on a perfectly flat road
mxpunk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2008, 11:00 PM   #13
FuJi K
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 3687
Join Date: Jan 2001
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: St. Paul, MN
Vehicle:
MY99 GF4 JDM 6spd
NF Performance

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mxpunk View Post
hows the 2.2L with the OEM wrx trans? do you know? i know you are rocking a jdm 6speed w/ dccd so im sure a 1.5L would feel torquey..

i like the way my stock wrx motor feels now, its very smooth, but the gearing sucks. boost drops off between shifts pretty bad and the gears are really really long, which is annoying in traffic because i was used to lugging it in my old 96 2.2L OBS waggoon. i guess i should jut get used to crusing around in 4th gear unless im going down hill or on a perfectly flat road
The EJ257, EJ205, EJ22E, EJ22T, EJ18 all use the SAME rod sizes. The NA 2.5L use the slightly longer rods.

I don't really like the OEM WRX 5spd gearing. Because OUR market here is a lot different from the rest of the world, we get these LONG gears. If you look at the rest of the world, they get a much shorter geared tranny than use and use shorter final drives like a 4.444FD. Lets just say the rest of the world uses the same gearing as the Outback XT (4.444 w/ LGT gearing). For performance especialy the guys who AUTOCROSS, the WRX gearing sucks completly.

When my wastegate arm feel off my flapper, The car ran like a pig. Probably just like an EJ18. The gearing was nice with little power. Shift and power is right there on the tap!! hahah that was fun!!!

I only use the gear BEST for the driving condition. If the road is flat enough and I'm at a speed where I can use the higher gears, I will as long as it doesn't work the engine too hard to keep the car moving. 30-35mph I'd cruise using 4th gear in a WRX. I do that in my NA tranny too long time ago. In the JDM 6spd, I'll use 5th gear. With the USDM 6spd, 5th gear is a bit too long for 30-35mph unless it's REALLY FLAT. Then when I need to really go at 30mph, double clutch downsihift revmatch into 2nd gear and wait for the turbo at 4500rpms and WOT all the way to 7000rpms. hahahaha
FuJi K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2008, 10:50 AM   #14
mxpunk
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 132130
Join Date: Nov 2006
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Austin, Texas
Vehicle:
2002 Ford F-150
Graphite Gray

Default

werd.

it looks like the OEM ej257 rods are good till 500whp or so, i guess ill go with them like reddevil said.

any suggestions on oil pumps?
mxpunk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2008, 11:35 AM   #15
69subaru360
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 159682
Join Date: Sep 2007
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Maine
Vehicle:
1995 WRX
2015 F150

Default

Personally I would not build this engine. I think you are just asking for head gasket problems with the open deck. I'm not saying it won't work and that it hasn't for others. But I woudn't do it myself.

I think all the rods are the same part number. I've had almost every size subie engine apart and all the rods look identical.

I just got a jdm wrx 4.111 trans. Gearing is MUCH better. I like 1-4, but it could use more overdrive. I might put the us wrx 5th in it.
69subaru360 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2008, 11:40 AM   #16
mxpunk
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 132130
Join Date: Nov 2006
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Austin, Texas
Vehicle:
2002 Ford F-150
Graphite Gray

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 69subaru360 View Post
Personally I would not build this engine. I think you are just asking for head gasket problems with the open deck. I'm not saying it won't work and that it hasn't for others. But I woudn't do it myself.

I think all the rods are the same part number. I've had almost every size subie engine apart and all the rods look identical.

I just got a jdm wrx 4.111 trans. Gearing is MUCH better. I like 1-4, but it could use more overdrive. I might put the us wrx 5th in it.
how much worse could it be then the 2.0 ? the ARP head studs should keep the head in place. if anything it should be no more less reliable then a 2.5L hybrid. its closer to the ej205's original bore size except it wont bump up the compression a ton and make it knock.

how much did that jdm 4.11 run you?
mxpunk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2008, 11:51 AM   #17
69subaru360
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 159682
Join Date: Sep 2007
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Maine
Vehicle:
1995 WRX
2015 F150

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mxpunk View Post
how much worse could it be then the 2.0 ? the ARP head studs should keep the head in place. if anything it should be no more less reliable then a 2.5L hybrid. its closer to the ej205's original bore size except it wont bump up the compression a ton and make it knock.

how much did that jdm 4.11 run you?

With the open deck, the cylinders aren't supported and will move around some under high hp and high side loads. That's what I don't like. The whole "hybrid knock" thing is just an NASIOC thing. Anyone halfway decent can tune the car to run correctly with no knock. A turbo motor with 9:1 or 9.5:1 compression will run fine especially with meth. My opinion is that the stock subie knock sensor sucks for non-stock aplications. It picks up a lot of false knock if you have a "noisy" car.

I paid $460 for the 4.111 jdm trans. I sold my us wrx trans for $250, it was hard to get into first, I gave the guy the parts to fix it, I never got around to it. I got a 4.11 rear diff for $25 and sold my 3.54 diff for $50 and kept the LSD out of it. I got lucky and the whole deal didn't cost me much at all.
69subaru360 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2008, 12:21 PM   #18
mxpunk
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 132130
Join Date: Nov 2006
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Austin, Texas
Vehicle:
2002 Ford F-150
Graphite Gray

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 69subaru360 View Post
With the open deck, the cylinders aren't supported and will move around some under high hp and high side loads. That's what I don't like. The whole "hybrid knock" thing is just an NASIOC thing. Anyone halfway decent can tune the car to run correctly with no knock. A turbo motor with 9:1 or 9.5:1 compression will run fine especially with meth. My opinion is that the stock subie knock sensor sucks for non-stock aplications. It picks up a lot of false knock if you have a "noisy" car.

I paid $460 for the 4.111 jdm trans. I sold my us wrx trans for $250, it was hard to get into first, I gave the guy the parts to fix it, I never got around to it. I got a 4.11 rear diff for $25 and sold my 3.54 diff for $50 and kept the LSD out of it. I got lucky and the whole deal didn't cost me much at all.
I suppose, but for the whp im looking for I dont think the block is going to be overly stressed or get in my way. ej25d blocks have been tested up to 40 psi or so from big turbos like the t66 and everyone used to say they would ovalize, crack, blabla, so i dont think ill have any serious problems. if i do, ill be sure to post them up here. ive never rebuilt a subaru engine before so im going to be learning as i go.

and i dont redline my car all the time, so i think ill live, the car willl see the drag strip a few times a year, i doubt ill have any problems. if i was building a road race car or a dragster id probably go w/ a fulll 2.5L long block anyways. the only advantage of the closed deck IMO is that the top of the cylinders have more surface area for the gasket to sit on so it'd be less likely to move around.
mxpunk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2008, 12:27 PM   #19
69subaru360
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 159682
Join Date: Sep 2007
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Maine
Vehicle:
1995 WRX
2015 F150

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mxpunk View Post
I suppose, but for the whp im looking for I dont think the block is going to be overly stressed or get in my way. ej25d blocks have been tested up to 40 psi or so from big turbos like the t66 and everyone used to say they would ovalize, crack, blabla, so i dont think ill have any serious problems. if i do, ill be sure to post them up here. ive never rebuilt a subaru engine before so im going to be learning as i go.

and i dont redline my car all the time, so i think ill live, the car willl see the drag strip a few times a year, i doubt ill have any problems. if i was building a road race car or a dragster id probably go w/ a fulll 2.5L long block anyways.

The open deck block will probably work ok for you. I know it has for others. I just don't like the idea of it myself.

Subie engines are easy to work on. Getting the piston pins back in is a little tricky, the rest is easy.

I'm going to go with a 2.5 sti shortblock with forged pistons, my wrx heads and a 20G or green someday. Not sure when, my 2.0 runs perfect doesn't leak or burn oil at 120,00 miles so it's kinda hard to think about replacing it.
69subaru360 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2008, 12:32 PM   #20
mxpunk
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 132130
Join Date: Nov 2006
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Austin, Texas
Vehicle:
2002 Ford F-150
Graphite Gray

Default

Where can I get The 1215 subabond stuff or whatever its called? i tried ordering it from subarugen. parts.com and they didnt have it. no auto parts stores around here carrry it either.

im going to have to do some serious reading and learn how to use a micrometer and whatnot to check all the clearances.
mxpunk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2008, 12:34 PM   #21
ballitch
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 74907
Join Date: Nov 2004
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: salem, OR
Vehicle:
98 cam'd EJ251
Wrx Tranny,slowr than ish

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 69subaru360 View Post
With the open deck, the cylinders aren't supported and will move around some under high hp and high side loads. That's what I don't like. The whole "hybrid knock" thing is just an NASIOC thing. Anyone halfway decent can tune the car to run correctly with no knock. A turbo motor with 9:1 or 9.5:1 compression will run fine especially with meth. My opinion is that the stock subie knock sensor sucks for non-stock aplications. It picks up a lot of false knock if you have a "noisy" car.
Did you forget that the EJ205 is open deck? Granted the bore isnt as large, but I dont think a 4mm bore difference would be any worse off.

All the EJ16,18,20,22 cranks share the same 75mm stroke crank, its when you bump up to the EJ25 that you get the 79mm stroke crank.

I use the Ultra Grey stuff from permatex, works great.


~Josh~

Last edited by ballitch; 12-18-2008 at 12:36 PM. Reason: subabond.
ballitch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2008, 12:36 PM   #22
69subaru360
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 159682
Join Date: Sep 2007
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Maine
Vehicle:
1995 WRX
2015 F150

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mxpunk View Post
Where can I get The 1215 subabond stuff or whatever its called? i tried ordering it from subarugen. parts.com and they didnt have it. no auto parts stores around here carrry it either.

im going to have to do some serious reading and learn how to use a micrometer and whatnot to check all the clearances.
Fuji-bond? The subie dealers stock it. You can use grey RTV silicone in place of it. I do with no problems. I'm sure the genuine stuff is better.
69subaru360 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2008, 12:40 PM   #23
69subaru360
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 159682
Join Date: Sep 2007
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Maine
Vehicle:
1995 WRX
2015 F150

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ballitch View Post
Did you forget that the EJ205 is open deck?
EJ205 is semi-closed. There is some extra metal there to hold the cylinders in place.
69subaru360 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2008, 01:13 PM   #24
charliew
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 125304
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Crawford, TX.
Default

You can get the fujibond quality stuff at honda or a motorcycle shop. We also use the grey permatex but I'm not sure it is quite as good. Why would you spend the money for gaskets and bearings on a open deck motor if you are starting from scratch anyway. If you mess with a suby long enough you will want more boost. Even the od 2.5 motors have headgasket problems as just stockers. They are running more compression than a od wrx motor. If the od wrx is not abused ie driven by a woman or older person they hold up fine mainly because they aren't under boost to redline very much. The 2.5 na motors that are babyed probably go to 100k in most cases but I've bought two that at about 130k had headgasket problems. They were just used as normal grocery getters. There used to be a big forum of disgruntled suby owners that had headgasket problems it may still be active. It's your money, good luck
charliew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2008, 01:55 PM   #25
mxpunk
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 132130
Join Date: Nov 2006
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Austin, Texas
Vehicle:
2002 Ford F-150
Graphite Gray

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 69subaru360 View Post
EJ205 is semi-closed. There is some extra metal there to hold the cylinders in place.
?? ej207's are the only semi closed 2 liter subarus as far as i know..

ive had 2 ej18e's, a phase 1 ej22e and they were all open deck just liek the ej205.

Quote:
Originally Posted by charliew View Post
You can get the fujibond quality stuff at honda or a motorcycle shop. We also use the grey permatex but I'm not sure it is quite as good. Why would you spend the money for gaskets and bearings on a open deck motor if you are starting from scratch anyway. If you mess with a suby long enough you will want more boost. Even the od 2.5 motors have headgasket problems as just stockers. They are running more compression than a od wrx motor. If the od wrx is not abused ie driven by a woman or older person they hold up fine mainly because they aren't under boost to redline very much. The 2.5 na motors that are babyed probably go to 100k in most cases but I've bought two that at about 130k had headgasket problems. They were just used as normal grocery getters. There used to be a big forum of disgruntled suby owners that had headgasket problems it may still be active. It's your money, good luck
?? i got it for cheap, when its all done and said ill still have less $$ into it then any ej25. i guess i could of built a 2.0 but i figured why not a 2.2

this isnt going to be more then 350 whp @ the most. if i was looking to make a 10 second car it wouldnt be a subaru, not now anyways.

once i am done with school and have a real career i would def consider it, maybe.
mxpunk is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
99 Phase II ej22 into 99 Forester Phase II ej25 subiman2005 Forester Forum 2 10-18-2009 10:39 PM
WTB: Phase II EJ22 heads Storm Private 'Wanted' Classifieds 1 10-04-2008 11:42 AM
Headgasket VS. Phase II EJ25 to Phase II EJ22 swap- "Simple"? 99legacyL Newbies & FAQs 0 03-01-2008 04:09 PM
low boost on bone stock Phase II ej22e? 970subaru Normally Aspirated with bolt-on Forced Induction Powertrain 12 11-09-2007 05:21 PM
Phase II EJ22E manifold - heads? mxpunk Subaru Conversions 13 08-15-2007 10:41 PM

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:18 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2024 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2019, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.

As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.

When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission
Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.