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07-17-2012, 09:22 AM | #1 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 262198
Join Date: Oct 2010
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2800-3000 RPM Mis-firing in ALL gears!! Help please! :(
Hey all,
Just looking for ideas on what the issue with my car is. My tuner pulled logs and sent them to COBB for further analysis, however they think it's the Deatschwerks 1000cc injectors. I don't know the exact details from a technical stand-point, but my tuner said he encountered a similar issue with another STI running ID 1000cc injectors (different brand). How it happens: If I'm driving casually / lightly (less than 25% throttle), it'll bog for a very split second between 2800-3000 rpms. Once it's past 3000 rpms, there are no further issues. If I press the throttle harder than 25% to about 90%, the bogging / misfiring become more evident and VERY frustrating. If I'm WOT, the nose of the car drops when it reaches 2800-3000rpm then picks up and carries on (from an outsider, it'll look like I'm "shifting"). So are there any known issues with running 1000cc injectors with these cars? What should I do next? Honestly, I can't stand this car anymore with this issue. Very quick run down of things that are air and fuel related: - 2011 STI hatch - Blouch dominator 2.5 xtr turbo - deatschwerks 1000cc injectors - 1-step colder spark plugs - deatschwerks fuel pump (the drop-in one... 65wc or something like that) - AMR BMI intake - AMR front mount intercooler - COBB AccessPort (using SpeedDensity and protuned) - TGV Deletes (cosworth) Datalogs:
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07-17-2012, 03:42 PM | #2 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 97043
Join Date: Sep 2005
Chapter/Region:
TXIC
Location: Tomball Tejas
Vehicle:08 STI 02 Z28 - project |
Its something in the new FPR setup Subaru switched to in 08. Actually a common issue, not sure why your tuner isn't aware of it. The MECHANICAL (proper) fix is to upgrade your FPR and ditch the stock balancing hoses and other junk they put in. You can also swap in an OEM FPR setup from earlier year STIs (04-07 STI) if you want to keep stock setup. You'll need the FPR and lines running to and from your fuel rails to do the swap.
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07-17-2012, 04:36 PM | #3 | |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 262198
Join Date: Oct 2010
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Quote:
Just need to weight out whats the most effective solution (either upgrading or switching to the earlier years fuel pressure regulator setup). Mind you, there is a possibility that I *might* take my build further later. |
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07-17-2012, 04:55 PM | #4 | |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 34084
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: cleveland,oh
Vehicle:2002 wrx |
It's a fueling issue. had it on my 2011
Changing the FPR from an earlier year may or may not help a tuner may or may not be able to tune it out I bet you didn't notice it until you changed the turbo and injectors I had the same problem and my tuner tried to tune it out for many weeks, changed out the fpr, tried different injectors, different fuel pumps. nothing fixed mine so I eventually got rid of the car. If you want to read more about it(you aren't the first to have this problem) do a search for "08+ hesitation" or "low rpm stumble" lots to read, I've read every page. I came across this post recently and you should read it because it may be an option for your to check out. looks like the guys at top speed may know how to get rid of it. maybe, maby not. good luck to you. Quote:
Last edited by cdoliver; 07-17-2012 at 05:01 PM. |
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07-21-2012, 09:06 PM | #5 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 280732
Join Date: Apr 2011
Chapter/Region:
RMIC
Location: Magna, Utah
Vehicle:2011 STI hatch Silver |
I am currently have the exact same issue with my 2010 STI, just did a 20g Turbo, 1000cc ID injectors, dw65 fuel pump, FMS FMIC, ect, everything went great with the tune drove the car home no problem. woke up the next morning and went for a canyon cruise up and down the canyon was great. Once I got on the freeway I put the car in cruse about a 4 miles later it thru an engine light. I got off the freeway and stopped at a local pep boys and had them run the code, came up with a system to lean bank 1. Called the tuner he said clear the code should be fine. Well from that moment on it stutters really bad from 2700 rpm to 3000 rpm in every gear every time. Even if cruising on the freeway at a constant speed if it is in the 3000 rpm range it will stutter the entire time until you either speed up or slow down out of that Rpm range. We did a log on the car and numbers were all over the place based on where we were on the dyno. Car was pulling like 6 deg of timing through out the rpm cycle. One other thing was that the intake temperatures were really high. When we were on the dyno "in a cool shop with the bumper off and fans blowing the whole time " intake temps were only reaching about 120 ° but when logging on the streets with out side temps at about 103° the intake temps were getting up over 200°. So we first checked for leaks air/fuel and everything looks good. Next we are going to work on temperature by re routing intake/intercooler pipes because the current set up has the hot side pipe running on the intake side so we are switching them around. I also orders some new headers and up pipe that I took to be high temp ceramic coated . So once this is all complete I will chime in again hopefully it fixes it.
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07-21-2012, 09:36 PM | #6 | |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 34084
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: cleveland,oh
Vehicle:2002 wrx |
Quote:
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07-21-2012, 10:01 PM | #7 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 280732
Join Date: Apr 2011
Chapter/Region:
RMIC
Location: Magna, Utah
Vehicle:2011 STI hatch Silver |
So you think if we would have tuned it with the Hood down we would not have these problems? Cause I don't!!
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07-21-2012, 10:12 PM | #8 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 280732
Join Date: Apr 2011
Chapter/Region:
RMIC
Location: Magna, Utah
Vehicle:2011 STI hatch Silver |
I can definitely see your point as it makes sense, but there is no way to simulate real driving temps in 100°+ summer heat for longer than 15 second pulls. So there is still a big issue some where that we are trying to eliminate right now we are working on heat. Car drove great for one day in the heat and then the next in nice cool air up in the mountains,
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07-21-2012, 10:15 PM | #9 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 34084
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: cleveland,oh
Vehicle:2002 wrx |
No I don't. It would have been better, but I don't think re routing your intercooler pipes will help temps either. I don't think temps are your problem, honestly.
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07-21-2012, 10:35 PM | #10 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 280732
Join Date: Apr 2011
Chapter/Region:
RMIC
Location: Magna, Utah
Vehicle:2011 STI hatch Silver |
I don't necessarily think that heat is my only issue either like I said we are checking into everything, I am giving my input on this issue as i am experiencing first hand. and heat seems to be a factor. But Yeah I think that swapping my intercooler pipes around will help alot. since the cold side pipe it constantly about 30° colder than the hot side. Which will help the intake.temps since it is basically resting on the fmic pipe making it hotter. This combined with coating the headers should drastically reduce heat temps.
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07-21-2012, 11:44 PM | #11 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 34084
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: cleveland,oh
Vehicle:2002 wrx |
what does it do when you reset the ecu? the reason why I asked is because the stutter you are describing usually is a learned over a day or so. usually takes a day or so to learn itself into your tune. If you reset the ecu it will probably go away until it relearns. It is fuel trims related. watch your a/f ratio while it is stuttering you will see it jumping all over the place
Last edited by cdoliver; 07-21-2012 at 11:49 PM. |
07-22-2012, 12:22 AM | #12 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 280732
Join Date: Apr 2011
Chapter/Region:
RMIC
Location: Magna, Utah
Vehicle:2011 STI hatch Silver |
I did a hard reset on the first night that it happened then drove it to work the next morning and had the same issue. Then drove it to the tuners shop where it has been for the last week getting the pipes done up as Well as waiting for the new headers to get coated. Once I get everything done we are going to run it and see it where we are. It don't really make sense to me that heat is the only cause but giving the fact it was cool out side in the morning to the canyon and really cool up in the mountains and did not have an issue until. I got to the freeway in the middle of the day when it was hot. I understand that others have had issues with the FPR. That would be my next guess if this don't help.
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07-22-2012, 12:28 AM | #13 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 280732
Join Date: Apr 2011
Chapter/Region:
RMIC
Location: Magna, Utah
Vehicle:2011 STI hatch Silver |
It is also really strange to me that it only dose it in the exact same spot every time, but its fine right after 3000 rpm all the way to red line if it was a fuel issue would you not see it all the way across the board?
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07-22-2012, 09:07 AM | #14 | |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 34084
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: cleveland,oh
Vehicle:2002 wrx |
Quote:
Did the problem go away briefly when you reset the ecu? Last edited by cdoliver; 07-22-2012 at 09:19 AM. |
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07-22-2012, 09:57 AM | #15 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 280732
Join Date: Apr 2011
Chapter/Region:
RMIC
Location: Magna, Utah
Vehicle:2011 STI hatch Silver |
I think we should be able to simulate that as the dyno is a dynopack 5000 it is a hub based dyno. But when I rest the ECU I did not see any change.
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07-22-2012, 10:02 AM | #16 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 280732
Join Date: Apr 2011
Chapter/Region:
RMIC
Location: Magna, Utah
Vehicle:2011 STI hatch Silver |
And yes I was cruising in 6th gear. From what I have read and was told from my tuner these newer 08+ cars have an issue with using cruise control as it has it's own map that you can tune in. When it threw the engine code it was the first and only time that I used the cruise after getting tuned.
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07-22-2012, 10:06 AM | #17 | |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 34084
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: cleveland,oh
Vehicle:2002 wrx |
Quote:
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07-22-2012, 10:22 AM | #18 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 280732
Join Date: Apr 2011
Chapter/Region:
RMIC
Location: Magna, Utah
Vehicle:2011 STI hatch Silver |
Yeah the cruise would be the same as not tuning the car in all 3 driving modes "I,S,S#" because they all have there own maps to start with. But no I want all possible problems addressed so any suggestions are great. Although I don't think it is compression car only has like 20,000 miles on it and has always been great no issues. The car left the dyno great no issue. Only minor hickup while tuning was the fuel pressure line going to the intake manifold kept coming off until I put a clamp around it
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07-22-2012, 11:41 AM | #19 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 34084
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: cleveland,oh
Vehicle:2002 wrx |
The cruise uses whatever mode you are in whenever you engage it. My 2011 blew a ringland at 12,000 shortly after the 20g install. Had same symptoms. I combatted heat(wrapped downpipe, uppipe, headers. Heat was not the problem. It's fuel and the different fuel system they started using in 2008. I also changed the maf sensor, the map sensor and o2 sensor to no avail. Have your tuner monitor your fuel pressure. This is a good place to start.
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07-22-2012, 12:26 PM | #20 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 280732
Join Date: Apr 2011
Chapter/Region:
RMIC
Location: Magna, Utah
Vehicle:2011 STI hatch Silver |
Well I hope to God it ain't that!!! But OK I really appreciate your input once I get everything done I'll check.those other few things you mentioned.
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07-22-2012, 01:28 PM | #21 | |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 262198
Join Date: Oct 2010
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I'm in the process of getting the Aeromotive FPR. Not sure on timelines, but I hope I'll have it ready to be installed by next weekend and have my tuner have a go at it.
Fingers crossed this issue gets resolved. Permanently. Quote:
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07-22-2012, 02:05 PM | #22 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 280732
Join Date: Apr 2011
Chapter/Region:
RMIC
Location: Magna, Utah
Vehicle:2011 STI hatch Silver |
How much work is involved with switching those For?
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07-22-2012, 02:05 PM | #23 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 280732
Join Date: Apr 2011
Chapter/Region:
RMIC
Location: Magna, Utah
Vehicle:2011 STI hatch Silver |
And what about cost?
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07-22-2012, 02:23 PM | #24 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 262198
Join Date: Oct 2010
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I honestly don't know... but the cost of the Aeromotive FPR is approximately $200 after taxes in Canada.
Like I said, I'll report back my findings with it. Just hoping its not a complete waste of money. |
07-22-2012, 03:31 PM | #25 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 280732
Join Date: Apr 2011
Chapter/Region:
RMIC
Location: Magna, Utah
Vehicle:2011 STI hatch Silver |
I just spoke with one of the guys from rallysport and I told him my issues and asked about the the same FPR you mentioned wanting to know if he thought that would fix it and he thinks it is some thing else. His thoughts were if it were the FPR it would have shown on the dyno tune. He said it sounds simpler than that like a leak or a hose loose. So I guess once I get it back together it do another pressure test.
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