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06-04-2010, 04:25 AM | #1 | |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 73805
Join Date: Nov 2004
Vehicle:24 TypeS ZO6 White |
Visual speed estimates by police are guesses with no formula, just practice, to guide
Quote:
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06-04-2010, 08:35 AM | #2 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 46277
Join Date: Oct 2003
Vehicle:H1 Viper LP640 FGT |
.....
Last edited by White out; 05-09-2022 at 04:07 PM. |
06-04-2010, 08:41 AM | #3 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 56731
Join Date: Mar 2004
Chapter/Region:
MWSOC
Location: Akron, Ohio
Vehicle:2004 STi, 00 Insight 10 Volvo C30R-d 11 F150 |
Wow this is really takin off.
I went th school with the guy that got the ticket that spawned this whole debate. I also submitted it to Autoblog. The highway that it all took place on is one that I'm on everyday. |
06-04-2010, 08:52 AM | #4 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 873
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region:
TXIC
Location: www.testdrivemylife.com
Vehicle:2020 JEEP / RAM Datsun 71 240Z & 68 2000 |
I cannot believe this crap is flying. Visual estimate based on a guess? This has got to be the stupidest thing I have ever heard. So basically the police officer can look at his quota for the week and say, that every driver he sees is speeding...no possible way to prove your innocence.
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06-04-2010, 09:04 AM | #5 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 95600
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Pittsburgh
Vehicle:2003 WRX wagon Silver |
I got a ticket like this before in TX (when I lived there). I had not had a ticket in 4 years at the time and went to court (since I was innocent). Needless to say I lost even after proving there was basically no way the officer was correct in my speed.
The annoying thing was I saw the officer. I was at a complete stop. I drove away from the stoplight carefully monitoring my speed since I had seen him. The officer was stuck behind a car turning. Then he comes bursting over the hill with his lights flashing (while I am stopped at the next light). He says do you know how fast you were going. I say yes and tell him. He says I was speeding. I asked if he used his radar, he says he watched and it looked like I was speeding. Anyway the speed he said I was going was basically impossible to attain between the two lights and he even agreed with me after the appearance in court, but the judge did not. Got the fine reduced to the same as defensive driving cost, but insurance of course goes up still. Lesson was learned though. Don't bother standing up for your rights |
06-04-2010, 09:13 AM | #6 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 215795
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: nampa,. id
Vehicle:2006 wrx |
WOW, really, WOW.
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06-04-2010, 10:25 AM | #7 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 44010
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Springfield, VA
Vehicle:2004 Cayenne Turbo Black |
The guessing is just part of it. With a radar/laser gun, I think some models can provide a printout or evidence of the reading. With this example, there's no evidence of you speeding other than the officer's word. Now, I'm not questioning the word of all officers, but just like in any other profession, there are bad apples. An officer could just pull one over (for any reason, the way you look?) and say, 'hey I think you were going over the speed limit' with nothing to back it up.
Also, in many states, penalities for speeding is based on exact speeds, 1-9 over, 10-14 over, 15-19 over and over 20. There is a big difference in penalities when one is caught speeding 19 over vs 20 over. There's also a big difference in how your insurance responds to these types of tickets as well. On the other hand, this opens the door in court to argue, not that you weren't speeding, but how much were you speeding. Maybe one could argue down that over 20 ticket to a 19 over ticket. |
06-04-2010, 10:39 AM | #8 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 35419
Join Date: Apr 2003
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If I received a speeding ticket from a guess, I would take it to court. I would ask the cop, "you can tell how fast something is moving just by watching?" I'd then pull out a quarter, drop it on the floor, and ask, "how fast was that moving, chief."
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06-04-2010, 10:44 AM | #9 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 62408
Join Date: May 2004
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: GWR, Florida
Vehicle:2002 wrx w/ STi guts 174k miles on Mobil 1 |
"Dead reckoning"??
I "rekon" there will be some pretty full courtrooms too... |
06-04-2010, 12:38 PM | #10 |
Former Vendor
Member#: 79304
Join Date: Jan 2005
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: FL
Vehicle:CALL 941-257-9618 www.ImportImageRacing.com |
i was thinking about a gtr...but i feel like this would get me too much police attention. ill keep this viper and look like an old man driving it. they dont pull you over for this.
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06-04-2010, 12:57 PM | #11 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 140163
Join Date: Feb 2007
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: 3MI Racing
Vehicle:03 STi hellaflunctional |
great, now all a cop has to say is 'i think you were speeding' to pull you over so he can snoop around for other things he can nail you for
my issue is, more often than not, driving the speed limit or going 5-10mph over looks like i'm flying cause the majority of motorists can't seem to get close to the speed limit |
06-04-2010, 01:53 PM | #12 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 170973
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: nashville
Vehicle:2004 WRX 4EAT PSM |
Thats it. I now have enough motivation to buy a dash camera. Constant recording loop of 8 hours. Not too expensive either.
There pretty cheap and can come in handy. My GF's dad in California got out of a ticket using one earlier this year. I still can't believe this "reckoning" can hold up in court..... |
06-04-2010, 01:54 PM | #13 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 140163
Join Date: Feb 2007
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: 3MI Racing
Vehicle:03 STi hellaflunctional |
evasive motorsports has the gopro hd for $300 including motorsports mount.
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06-04-2010, 01:55 PM | #14 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 62408
Join Date: May 2004
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: GWR, Florida
Vehicle:2002 wrx w/ STi guts 174k miles on Mobil 1 |
Quote:
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06-04-2010, 02:08 PM | #15 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 56731
Join Date: Mar 2004
Chapter/Region:
MWSOC
Location: Akron, Ohio
Vehicle:2004 STi, 00 Insight 10 Volvo C30R-d 11 F150 |
Quote:
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06-04-2010, 02:08 PM | #16 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 20442
Join Date: Jun 2002
Chapter/Region:
NESIC
Location: Chelmsford, MA
Vehicle:2022 WRX Limited WRB |
It's like most other traffic violations. Officers generally aren't using a visual speed estimate for a lone car out minding its own business on an empty road. But if the whole highway is flowing along smoothly and one car stands out as going much faster than the flow of traffic, it's pretty obvious that car is speeding.
The main difference is that most officers are smart enough not to write down an exact number when they are estimating. They'll just put "in excess of 70 mph" or something to that effect, which isn't all that hard for a casual observer to estimate. Also, most traffic violations come down to your word vs. the officer's. For instance, running a red light, failure to stay in marked lanes, faulty equipment, etc. They generally don't take a picture or have any other objective evidence, other than their observation. |
06-04-2010, 02:20 PM | #17 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 140163
Join Date: Feb 2007
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: 3MI Racing
Vehicle:03 STi hellaflunctional |
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06-04-2010, 03:07 PM | #18 | |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 170973
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: nashville
Vehicle:2004 WRX 4EAT PSM |
Quote:
I was planning on modifying my gauge pod to hold a dash cam mounted behind my gauges, underneath the gauge pod. Then run a small external microphone up the side pillar so that it can capture audio near the drivers side window. |
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06-04-2010, 03:34 PM | #19 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 873
Join Date: Feb 2000
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TXIC
Location: www.testdrivemylife.com
Vehicle:2020 JEEP / RAM Datsun 71 240Z & 68 2000 |
wait, why can't we video tape them? They videotape us...This is BS. They are passing laws now to intentionally make it impossible for us to defend ourselves. This has gone too far. Why do cops need protection from OUR in car cams?
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06-04-2010, 03:35 PM | #20 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 56731
Join Date: Mar 2004
Chapter/Region:
MWSOC
Location: Akron, Ohio
Vehicle:2004 STi, 00 Insight 10 Volvo C30R-d 11 F150 |
I don't know. I just remember reading an article recently about someone who tried to use the recording to get out of something and ended up getting in more trouble.
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06-04-2010, 07:02 PM | #21 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 67398
Join Date: Aug 2004
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: Chattanooga, TN
Vehicle:2002 Now with 100% RDA of 2.5l Goodness!!! |
So much for proof beyond a reasonable doubt. " Yeah, he looked like he was going fast...." Guilty as charged!
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06-04-2010, 07:14 PM | #22 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 97330
Join Date: Sep 2005
Chapter/Region:
BAIC
Location: California/New York
Vehicle:2003 WRX |
Quote:
We would never convict anyone if the standard was that high. |
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06-04-2010, 07:21 PM | #23 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 67398
Join Date: Aug 2004
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: Chattanooga, TN
Vehicle:2002 Now with 100% RDA of 2.5l Goodness!!! |
Prepoderance of evidence is the standard for civil trials. It's simple to provide the necessary proof for criminal trials, use your damn radar/lidar gun. But if you drag me into court and say it looked like I was doing 80, I'm gonna laugh you out of court.
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06-04-2010, 07:29 PM | #24 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 97330
Join Date: Sep 2005
Chapter/Region:
BAIC
Location: California/New York
Vehicle:2003 WRX |
Traffic violations in most sane states are civil infractions.
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06-04-2010, 10:55 PM | #25 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 4690
Join Date: Mar 2001
Chapter/Region:
RMIC
Location: Metro Denver
Vehicle:17 FXT White |
Whoa guys...relax. Visual estimates are just used to help corroborate the speed displayed on the radar/lidar. So, for example, I can see a car that is visibly moving faster than the other traffic, I estimate its speed to be 78-82 or so, then I get it on laser at 80 mph. I can say that the readout was in line with my visual estimate. That is all a visual estimate is for. You get a feel for speeds over time, it is not rocket science.
I do not think anyone got a ticket based on a random guess. Also, if I see a car that is going almost twice the speed of other traffic, I can cite the car for something even though I never got a radar/lidar readout on the screen, just based on what I observed. Law enforcement is a game, as a friend of mine says, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. Between radar detectors and iPhone applications that list speed traps, people have plenty of help in the defense against police. People are not getting screwed over in court generally. |
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