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12-07-2008, 12:26 PM | #1 | |
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Should Taxpayers Back a High-End Electric Carmaker?
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12-07-2008, 01:03 PM | #2 |
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Wait, wait, wait.
Tesla has only spent $145 million to date over the course of what? 3 years? and now they want $400 million? Am I reading that correctly? |
12-07-2008, 01:57 PM | #3 | |
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i, for one, support Tesla receiving DOE funds. that's what the fund is designed for, and the Whitestar could well pave the way for a true mass market electric vehicle (possibly through Tesla's powertrain business -- they're reputed to be the supplier for the electric underpinnings of the Mini E). |
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12-07-2008, 03:16 PM | #4 | |
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12-07-2008, 05:01 PM | #5 | |
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12-07-2008, 05:07 PM | #6 |
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even though it's reputed to use a Tesla powertrain the Mini E isn't for sale. 500 of them are for lease at $850/month. this is not a sustainable business model, and this plant would help to address the economies of scale.
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12-07-2008, 05:56 PM | #7 | |
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Even the Volt isn't going to be that expensive if GM survives, and would have much better long-distance performance (since it can run on gas as well as electricity) and a global servicing network for purchasers. Tesla just seem to be a company looking for a market; which is precisely why investors don't want to give them money. They should probably forget building cars and just supply powertrains to companies who can afford to build them. |
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12-07-2008, 07:12 PM | #8 | |
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12-07-2008, 08:26 PM | #9 | |
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12-07-2008, 09:07 PM | #10 | |
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green-minded ppl who arent broke buy prius, not tesla. rich ppl who have nothing better to do place orders on hard-to-get cars like the tesla. they need to show the list of vehicles that those people with deposit on the tesla also have... you might see a lot of gas guzzlers on the list. |
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12-07-2008, 09:46 PM | #11 |
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At the LA show it was revealed that the Mini's drivetrain came from California's AC Propulsion, not Tesla.
Interesting aside, the guy who designed Tesla's motor and power electronics came from Aerovironment, which later became AC Propulsion. The power systems in the Volt and the EV1 also trace their roots to Aerovironment... I wonder if Miles, Aptera, Roush and Detroit Electric will apply for loans from the fund too? There are a lot of smaller US players dabbling in the electric car space right now, most being fairly quiet (Miles), and some being very much in stealth mode (Detroit Electric). |
12-08-2008, 09:35 AM | #12 |
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Well, its a start. The point is the vehicle has already been developed. Why should taxpayers subsidize US companies to reinvent it?
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12-08-2008, 11:05 AM | #13 |
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Shouldn't they at least have a history of success before the government gives them any more money. Obviously if the business plan was good, they'd get their money from the market place. They only employee a small amount of people. They will produce very limited numbers of cars. Frankly, if the were gone tomorrow, they would not be missed except of course by the 1200 people that have paid for or made deposits on cars that will probably never be delivered any way.
Tesla is a bad investment. |
12-08-2008, 11:25 AM | #14 | |
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12-08-2008, 11:37 AM | #15 |
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are you guys seriously making a utilitarian argument in favor of the bailouts? wow.
Mike Wevrick: this loan program was designed to support the development of more efficient cars -- that's why Tesla should be eligible. Tesla has a viable plan to do just that regardless of unfounded internet-forum aspersions on their market. QED. |
12-08-2008, 11:44 AM | #16 |
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I would rather loan a few hundred million to Tesla than a few billion to bail out Chrysler.
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12-08-2008, 11:57 AM | #17 | |
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A) If that were a desirable goal, the easiest way to reach it is to just raise gas taxes. Supply/demand forces will take care of the rest. B) More efficient cars are already on the market or close to it (eg plug-in Prius). Why pay for something that has already been done at no cost to taxpayers? C) Tesla specifically is a niche player targeting wealthy buyers. If they need money, let them raise it from the millionaires who want their product. |
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12-08-2008, 01:52 PM | #18 |
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12-08-2008, 03:58 PM | #19 | |
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2. the big 2.8 were the ones who wanted this money, presumably so that they could misuse it and fund their continued operations in an underhanded way. ask them why they thought it was so crucial that they lobbied to have it included in the TARP bill. 3. as detailed above even though my specific example of the Mini E was incorrect Tesla's technology may prove to have implications for the car world well beyond the Roadster. take into account that the venture capital world is reeling from the lack of credit much as is the rest of the economy and you have a number of good reasons why investing in companies working to create greener cars would be in the public good. |
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12-09-2008, 09:47 AM | #20 |
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Again, should we at least require some sort of success from Tesla before giving them $1, much less loan guaranties on $400 million. If you believe they're the future and deserve money, then by all means send them your money but please don't "volunteer" me and my money.
Also, Tesla is an aggregator of technology and not an innovator. |
12-09-2008, 10:23 AM | #21 | |
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Let alone a dead sexy one with hard to match acceleration. |
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12-09-2008, 10:39 AM | #22 | |
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My own personal opinion is I don't think any PUBLICLY TRADED company should be getting any money from the Gov't (aka: us). Never mind privately held company like ChryCo and Tesla. If they do, they should no longer be traded on the market and any and all profits go back to the american tax payer until the loan is re-paid. If they continue to hemmorage money for over a year and fail to return a profit, they get folded. Now, because there's no value to the stock in the company, and less than 50% of the country wants to buy any GM product, now the taxpayers are being forced to invest in the product still! Again... what's wrong with this picture? If I had faith in GM, I'd buy a GM product (before you question me... I have a '93 saturn and an '02 Tahoe). The rest of the country... they do not see value in GM. So they speak/spoke with their wallets. Any bailout of them will do nothing other than to delay the inevetible, their ultimate folding. --kC |
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12-09-2008, 11:52 AM | #23 |
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