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Old 06-21-2014, 09:09 PM   #26
Kostamojen
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I filled out a survey for my BRZ, but that was for Consumers Reports not JD Power.
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Old 06-21-2014, 09:10 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pre View Post
I get it. If Subaru ranked in the leaders in this study you'd praise it. Since that isn't the case you dismiss it.

This forum has 15 years of posts. Feel free to search for older discussions about JD Power.
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Old 06-21-2014, 09:15 PM   #28
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Both CR and JD Powers are horrible resources for accurate information. If anybody relies on these for purchasing anything, you're a blinded fools.
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Old 06-22-2014, 01:54 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by godfather2112 View Post
Both CR and JD Powers are horrible resources for accurate information. If anybody relies on these for purchasing anything, you're a blinded fools.
Well said.
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Old 06-22-2014, 01:05 PM   #30
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Some people confuse IQS with long term reliability. IQS is all about issues at the first 90 days after delivery, says nothing about what will happen after 10 years.
I think this study is correct. The summary table on #1 is hiding which models had which kind of issue, though this is available in JDP elsewhere. The only fault I find with IQS is that they do not report severity of an issue, so if one customer had engine fail vs. minor rattle, it all counts as one issue.
Note that Subaru has 20% more issues than average, which I don't consider as poor (Fiat @ 80% is poor).

On the other hand, CR has reported the new 2014 Forester as reliable very few months after it was on sale. Unless they can predict the future, I'd say they are either reporting reliability for a different vehicle altogether.
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Old 06-22-2014, 09:34 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoDealer View Post
No. I noticed the difference in Subaru's standings and JDP's operations since McGraw Hill took over JD Power over a decade ago. I have very good reasons to question the legitimacy of JD Power that I won't share here.
Ok then.

I still stand by what I said. If a report, study, article, or review is what we want to hear, we praise it. If it's not what we want to hear we discredit it. I see this for cars, motorcycles, guns, everything.

Initial quality study is all it is and if I take the new STi, for example, you've got lots of initial quality failures with rear diffs being overfilled, trunks rubbing paint off, etc. There is validity to it. Numbers do not lie.
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Old 06-22-2014, 11:55 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pre View Post
Ok then.

I still stand by what I said. If a report, study, article, or review is what we want to hear, we praise it. If it's not what we want to hear we discredit it. I see this for cars, motorcycles, guns, everything.

Initial quality study is all it is and if I take the new STi, for example, you've got lots of initial quality failures with rear diffs being overfilled, trunks rubbing paint off, etc. There is validity to it. Numbers do not lie.
For the record, I didn't credit or discredit JD Power in my original statement. I simply stated CR=High, JD Power=Low. There's nothing really new to see. What do you know of the little quality issues of Ford's, Hyundai's, etc? You see Subaru's issues because you're here everyday. No one is saying Subaru is problem free, but you are not able to look at other manufacturers with parity.
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Old 06-23-2014, 12:47 AM   #33
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Isn't Jd power just about initial quality? Like if some thing goes wrong within the first few months. Consumer reports is more about long term reliability, it's a totally different thing.

I think when I got the Jd power survey for my 2011 wrx it had maybe 3000 miles on it.
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Old 06-23-2014, 08:09 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoDealer View Post
For the record, I didn't credit or discredit JD Power in my original statement. I simply stated CR=High, JD Power=Low. There's nothing really new to see. What do you know of the little quality issues of Ford's, Hyundai's, etc? You see Subaru's issues because you're here everyday. No one is saying Subaru is problem free, but you are not able to look at other manufacturers with parity.
If you are looking at the survey only for your information then there is parity.

"What do you know of the little quality issues of Ford's, Hyundai's, etc? You see Subaru's issues because you're here everyday. No one is saying Subaru is problem free, but you are not able to look at other manufacturers with parity"...? Really?!... Geeze!... We are all idiots! I heard there is this thing called the internet and you can get all kinds of information there, but I guess all the other manufacture's are able to keep their bad information off it.
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Old 06-23-2014, 08:53 AM   #35
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Well like mentioned this is IQS.. which explains why Porsche is on top.

There are 30 hours of intense brain washing you must go through when you buy a Porsche. Words like broken, or awkward are first wiped from memory. But as things turn up, Porsche owners get confused.

First when your windows stop working you just say, must be my incorrect usage of the button. Porsche can design buttons, I am such a bafoon.

Then when the leaks start, it is dismissed as charater, not a fault or a problem, as such words are eradicated from the vocabulary all Porsche owners, and to report or acknowledge any such things could possible be exist in reality, could mean being ostracized by other Porsche people...Or worse, not being invited to a Porsche cars and Coffee meet.

Then when an intermediate shaft lets go, and the 25000 dollar repair bill lands on your lap, you smile as this is part of the Porsche experience, like paying 3000 dollars for leather seating surfaces, and 900 dollars for heated seats, and 2000 dollars for HID lights. The joys never end.

To see how powerful the marketing brainwashing goes, I would still like to have a 911
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Old 06-23-2014, 09:12 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a2cpc View Post
If you are looking at the survey only for your information then there is parity.

"What do you know of the little quality issues of Ford's, Hyundai's, etc? You see Subaru's issues because you're here everyday. No one is saying Subaru is problem free, but you are not able to look at other manufacturers with parity"...? Really?!... Geeze!... We are all idiots! I heard there is this thing called the internet and you can get all kinds of information there, but I guess all the other manufacture's are able to keep their bad information off it.
Tell me now that you have all the other manufacturers most popular forums and information sites in your search and browser history
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Old 06-23-2014, 09:38 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Kostamojen View Post
This forum has 15 years of posts. Feel free to search for older discussions about JD Power.
Pretty much this. We've been through how biased (and useless) their numbers are.
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Old 06-23-2014, 10:44 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by SoDealer View Post
Tell me now that you have all the other manufacturers most popular forums and information sites in your search and browser history
Indeed. Since we're in the market for a new car, I've been looking through other manufacturers' forums; someone who spent much time doing so would never buy a car again, given the numerous problems reported there. There are few manufacturers who don't have buyers reporting problems that cost hundreds or thousands of dollars to fix in the first few years of ownership.
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Old 06-23-2014, 09:15 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bakadayo View Post
Pretty much this. We've been through how biased (and useless) their numbers are.
Yeah I'm sure they made up all those bad Subaru statistics just to stick it to them for not sending money their way. If anyone has ever filled out JD power survey they would know they are much more detailed than CR's. I mean you can have your conspiracies that they puff up GM's scores but at the same time if they were making up false numbers regarding Subaru reliability I'm sure there would be grounds for major lawsuits.
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Old 06-25-2014, 02:41 PM   #40
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JD Power Initial Quality Study
I'd rather know about the short period immediately after warranty expiration. That tells you if the model is over or under engineered.

Truedelta seems more legit than JD and more useful to enthusiasts than CR.
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Old 06-25-2014, 05:11 PM   #41
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Didn't Ford get trashed by JD because of SYNC? Or was that from CR?

Either way, I wouldn't put much stock in either. They're just one company's measure of quality generated by what they consider the correct way.
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Old 06-25-2014, 06:29 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRC STi View Post
JD Power Initial Quality Study
I'd rather know about the short period immediately after warranty expiration. That tells you if the model is over or under engineered.

Truedelta seems more legit than JD and more useful to enthusiasts than CR.
I like true delta but not enough people use it yet
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Old 06-25-2014, 08:11 PM   #43
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You can argue all day whether or not the JD power survey is worth a damn. But historically they have followed a trend: Lexus, Toyota, Acura and Honda always rank high. Dodge, range rover and mitsubishi always rank at the bottom. Subaru is usually in the middle. I've never seen subaru ranked below VW, dodge or range rover. Must be all the new models (leaky brz tail lights, crickets, etc)...
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Old 06-25-2014, 08:14 PM   #44
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the BRZ is too low volume to hurt subaru, maybe scion though
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Old 06-25-2014, 10:40 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by rexster View Post
You can argue all day whether or not the JD power survey is worth a damn. But historically they have followed a trend: Lexus, Toyota, Acura and Honda always rank high. Dodge, range rover and mitsubishi always rank at the bottom. Subaru is usually in the middle. I've never seen subaru ranked below VW, dodge or range rover. Must be all the new models (leaky brz tail lights, crickets, etc)...
http://businesscenter.jdpower.com/ne...spx?ID=2005069

Quote:
Raffi Festekjian, J. D. Power’s director of automotive product research, explains that the IQS was designed to capture “things gone wrong” with a vehicle. Each one is called a “problem,” and it can be “either a fault in the assembly of the vehicle or a design issue.” A fault might be a poorly assembled door panel or a loose electrical connection, while a design issue is something that a customer doesn’t like—a multifunction cruise-control stalk, for example—even though the item is performing exactly as intended.
This survey cares not for the severity of the issue or even if there is an actual issue. Someone could mark Subaru down for not having frameless windows, and it's completely valid.
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