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Old 06-30-2009, 11:37 AM   #1
Stames_wiltz
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As some of you know, my car made good power for about a week . Then it still made good power but I noticed that the car wasn't behaving Normally. This was after my motor was hydrolocked from the methanol injection. I don't know how the methanol kit did it, I have tried to get it to do it again and it wouldn't. It was a freak thing, but it ended up costing me a motor. So here is my current status on the car.



That isn't a nice picture, I know. Well I had been looking out of curiosity into new motors prior to the OE one taking dump and I found that their are/were a couple different builders:

1. Cosworth, Not only do they have Years and years of race experience, but killnitsoftly purchased this motor and it has been dynamite for power. The downside is that you can buy a fairly nice car for the price of their Longblock, then you have install and tuning (assuming you don't do your own).

2. Cobb, I am a cobb fanboi. Always have been and always will be. But they quit doing motor builds and I had read that the cobb motors weren't the most reliable. So they were out.

3. Crawford, Now I am pretty sure nearly all of us have seen the Ken Block Gymkhana videos. Crawford puts these motors together and they are a fairly proven block. They did have some problems with the "big valley" blocks, but I am sure alot of that was due to customers being knuckles heads and not breaking the motor in properly. Don't know why but I never was really interested in the crawford blocks.

4. Raw Performance-Formerly Axis Power, I looked at these blocks and they looked extremely affordable. I have looked through Proven Power Bragging and many raved about these blocks. I was turned onto them by Ilivas on the Cobb forums. Ilivas has the Crawford and said if he could do it again he would go with Ron's (the owner of Raw) motors.

5. My own build, honing and piecing together a Brian Crower motor and playing "building a block." This would be just as expensive as having someone else build me a block. Plus I and I am sure many other people don't quite know tolerances, clearances, etc... So this wasn't really an option for me.

So it was between Cosworth and Raw performance for me. Cosworth again is super proven but comes with a 2nd mortgage, or A Raw performance block which I could fund and should still be a competative block. I opted for the Raw performance or as otherwise stated "Texas Roadhouse" block.

Here is the skinny on it. Ron has a guy locally to us in SLC that hand ports heads. We tore down my stock block and took the heads to Bill Jones to do some magic. He works in a garage in the back of his house and has all sorts of wonderful tools. A stock STi flows 205 on the intake and 175 on the exhaust side with his Bench flow. After some mild head work (very mild) I now flow 245 intake and 205 exhaust. For What it is worth, they have flowed Cosworth heads and they flowed, 305 Intake and 275 exhaust. That gives a comparison on the in house Bench flow. So I picked up a fairly good number increase for $527 bucks.

We then shipped the heads to Illinois where Ron is located. He then took the heads and fitted the Supertech Dual spring valve kit which includes, Dual valve springs, titanium retainers, new spring seats and keepers. He also lashed for Kelford 272/272-11.3MM lift Camshafts. I retained the stock Valves which they sunk and re-seated to allow more flow. With this kind of head work I will be safe to spin the motor to 8,000 rpm per what Ron told me last night.

The Shortblock. My OE shortblock was down on compression and had Ron do a new shortblock. He takes a brand new EJ257 block, pulls the OE hypereutectic cast-brittle pistons Measures, hones and replaces with forged ones. Due to Brody's WRX build and Higher Compression. I asked if Ron had the same capability. He of course said, yes we do. We can order you some custom forged CP 9.0:1 pistons at no extra charge W/ side coating. I jumped on it. He also installed ACL Race bearings which include both main and rod bearings. This is to help withstand higher RPM's. He moddified the STi oil pump to "flow better than the cosworth." and set it up with all the timing belt, tensioner, water pump, etc... and bolted the heads to it with ARP head studs.

It is finished and will be shipped today.
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Last edited by Stames_wiltz; 06-30-2009 at 11:47 AM.
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Old 06-30-2009, 11:37 AM   #2
Stames_wiltz
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I have also changed some other minor things on my build. I decided to lay the APS Top mount intercooler to rest and pic up the APS DR525 FMIC. The blouch Dominator 3.0R also is being replaced with the Forced performance HTA Green. To fuel it I have swapped out the Deatschwerks 750cc inj. with Deatschwerks 850cc inj.

I decided on switching to FMIC because I felt the top mount was quite maxed at 398.5 whp. APS claims this TMIC to be a 375 hp unit. That is crank hp mind you, not Mustang dyno whp. There is a difference of about 20%. Also thanks to John at Cobb Tuning, I saw a major difference in the HTA green to my Blouch Dominator 3. With the same boost, AFR, fuel and similar timing, the HTA green spooled 250 rpm later on a FMIC and made 50 lbs-ft, and 40 more Whp on cobbs dyno. The HTA Green is a 56 lbs/min Turbo with an 8cm^2 hotside. If you do a conversion from the mitsu turbine to the Garrett you will find that the 8cm^2 hotside is the equivelant of a .61 A/R. This makes the HTA green similar to a bolt on small hotside GT35R.

Because the HTA Green makes more power than the Dom 3, I needed bigger injectors. The 750cc inj. were at 86% Injector Duty cycle while I was making 382 whp on just race gas. You always want a margin of safety with injectors incase you travel to sea level or their is a good Temp. change in the atmosphere. Ideal is about 10% headroom. I was approaching those limits on the 750cc's.

I also ditched the Methanol and will be sticking with pump 91 and Race fuel maps. Talking with Ron, his motors don't have a HP limit, but a boost and rev limit. He told me when I was initially building the block that he personally would never take a stock block above 20 psi. Even on race fuel. Sure it can tolerate it for a while, but you are just asking for problems. With mine he gave me a max psi level of 26 psi.

Now notice I went with Higher compression pistons. I found that if you are tuned on Cobbs dyno if you take the peak boost and multiply it by 15.2 you will get your peak torq. give or take 10-15. and if you take the redline boost and multiply it by 18.5 you will get your peak hp give or take 10-15 hp. This is on a stock block STi and WRX which have compressions of 8.2:1 for the STi and 8.4:1 on the WRX. The 08+ STi I believe has higher compression, but not sure what it is exactly. To the point. We are at altitude and suffer from an atmospheric pressure drop. If you were to go to sea level, everyone of our cars would make 10-15% more power than they do here. The turbo doesn't have to work as much to compress the air at sea level as it does here, that produces a cooler charge and then makes more power.

Brody did a higher compression block on his WRX which produced astounding power on pump gas (cosworth or Ruths Chris if you will). The higher compression makes up for some of the altitude. Brody's car took my formula and changed it because of the higher compression pistons as well as cams. His cams are more aggressive than mine because he was rocking a bigger turbo. But regardless, I feel my build should be fairly competitive.

My goals. Based on Brody's WRX I figure that on pump 91 if I am tuned to 19.5 psi peak (no need to blow the motor on pump gas) and taper to 17.5-18 psi at redline, I should be at or near 340-350 lbs-ft torq. and 360-370 whp all of the time. Air fuel ratio a conservative 10.7:1 and timing advancement a conservative 7-8* at Peak torq., tapering up to 18-ish Degrees at redline.

Race fuel we are going to give it the beans and hopefully max out my Fuel pressure regulator and/or stock fuel rails. If I can hit 24.5 to 25 psi peak and taper to 22-ish at redline, I figure I will be at or around 450 lbs.-ft torq and 450 whp on cobbs dyno. This will give me a 550 crank hp car that looks relatively factory. Aside from it being lowered due to coilovers and 7 gauges that line the "A" pillar and replaced the clock pod.

Let the questions, comments, concerns, criticisms and applauses if you will begin.

Last edited by Stames_wiltz; 06-30-2009 at 12:15 PM.
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Old 06-30-2009, 11:42 AM   #3
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subscribed!
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Old 06-30-2009, 11:50 AM   #4
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w00000t!
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Old 06-30-2009, 12:15 PM   #5
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2nd post edited for more info. Lets make some power!
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Old 06-30-2009, 12:29 PM   #6
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You went with a green? WTF are you thinking. Ask me and Les how "amazing" ours were.


Sick build, but I would change up the turbo selection.
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Old 06-30-2009, 12:35 PM   #7
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Jesus christ quit wasting your time with those ****ty stock location turbo's.All the money you pissed away you could have gotten a ultimate racing 35r kit and been done with it.
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Old 06-30-2009, 12:42 PM   #8
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Thanks les, welcome back from timeout
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Old 06-30-2009, 12:52 PM   #9
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congratulations on the build can't wait to see what it does.
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Old 06-30-2009, 02:10 PM   #10
Stames_wiltz
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My Dom 3 vs. the HTA Green. I am the dotted lines and the Green is the Solid lines. I know there are "too many variables" to directly compare, but FWIW, timing, boost, afr, etc... were similar. And it was done within a week of each other. Ideally my new pistons and cams should help me spool sooner.

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Old 06-30-2009, 02:33 PM   #11
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Interested to see how this turns out.
What are you going to do about the clutch?
Are you worried that you will be outflowing the IWG on the turbo, leading to boost creep in higher gears, or when the car starts getting hot (couple freeway pulls)?
Is Ron saying 26PSI do to the cyl walls cracking from combustion pressures?
What size pistons did you go with 99.75mm?
Did Ron balance the entire rotating assembly?
What kind of flow is expected out of the Oil pump? and is it a 10,11 or 12mm?



Looking good James, should be a solid grocery getter . To bad the wifey wont let you come out and play

ps. so when do u expect this thing up and running? and when is your dyno day?
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Old 06-30-2009, 02:36 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by godfather2112 View Post
You went with a green? WTF are you thinking. Ask me and Les how "amazing" ours were.


Sick build, but I would change up the turbo selection.
I was thinking the same thing. I would be looking at an HTA 35R or similar.
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Old 06-30-2009, 02:45 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowman4us View Post
Interested to see how this turns out.
What are you going to do about the clutch?
ACT Heavy Duty

Quote:
Originally Posted by snowman4us View Post
Are you worried that you will be outflowing the IWG on the turbo, leading to boost creep in higher gears, or when the car starts getting hot (couple freeway pulls)?
Not at all

Quote:
Originally Posted by snowman4us View Post
Is Ron saying 26PSI do to the cyl walls cracking from combustion pressures?
No, 26 psi because it is higher compression and the load it places on Bearings/pistons/walls.

Quote:
Originally Posted by snowman4us View Post
What size pistons did you go with 99.75mm?
not sure exactly. I will get the blueprints for the build when it is shipped.

Quote:
Originally Posted by snowman4us View Post
Did Ron balance the entire rotating assembly?
Yessir, and I quote from his email to me. " It is fully balanced and polished to 10,000 RPMs to within .25 grams. All clearances were checked and rechecked to ensure 100% accuracy with your build."

Quote:
Originally Posted by snowman4us View Post
What kind of flow is expected out of the Oil pump? and is it a 10,11 or 12mm?
12mm, and not sure exact flow. But he said it outflows the Coz.

Quote:
Originally Posted by snowman4us View Post
Looking good James, should be a solid grocery getter . To bad the wifey wont let you come out and play

ps. so when do u expect this thing up and running? and when is your dyno day?
Shipping today or tomorrow at latest. Install should be next week. Tune... Depends on when we can get enough people to justify flying John back out. We need 15-20 people. But I need to do a proper 2,000 mile break in before the dyno day.

Here is what Ron said in my Email about the break in. "Attached is the breakin page. The only difference is on first startup, you need to run the engine at 1500-2000rpms for 15-20 minutes to breakin the cams. Failure to do this will certainly cause a cam/cams failure down the road. It will also void any warranty on the cams and engine.

Again, I will reiterate the importance of tuning during the breakin process. The one thing I commonly see is overfuelings condition during the breakin procedure and I do not warranty against this. With a good tuner though you should not have to worry about this."

I am not sad about not racing it at MMP or RMR. I just like the saying of, it is better to have it and not need it, then to need it and not have it.
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Old 06-30-2009, 02:59 PM   #14
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Hmmm, Im not to sure about the IWG. But thats just my opinion, interested to see how that will turn out(hope u dont have any creep issues).
I hope he went to a oversized piston. Cosworth did a nice write up about it on there blog, regarding OEM blocks. http://www.cosworthusa.com/blog/default.asp?idpage=18
As for spinning the motor, 8K is about as high as you wana go. You will start outflowing the pump, and typically any higher then that you will want a dry sump. Hope the green can keep on making power that high. But I can see the length of the intake track becoming a restriction at that point (again my opinion, i dont have any fancy tools to measure this stuff )
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Old 06-30-2009, 03:02 PM   #15
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oh, I agree.

Ron said tune it to 7,000. If it is still making power then tune it to 7,500. If it is still making power then tune to 8k. But it will probably die off at 7,300 or so seeing that it is a bolt on. I am not planning on pushing it to 8k, but it is nice to know the potential is there.
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Old 06-30-2009, 07:33 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stames_wiltz View Post
oh, I agree.

Ron said tune it to 7,000. If it is still making power then tune it to 7,500. If it is still making power then tune to 8k. But it will probably die off at 7,300 or so seeing that it is a bolt on. I am not planning on pushing it to 8k, but it is nice to know the potential is there.
Its a green, it wont make power past 7500.


Its a green, you will soon replace it with a rotated me thinks.


Its a green, and im going to kick you in the nutz next time I see you at 24 hour..................its green, the color of the throw up from me kicking you in the nuts
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Old 06-30-2009, 10:26 PM   #17
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Mr. stames sounds promising,I cant wait to see how the higher compression and headwork helps the build! I think you should go rotated though
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Old 07-01-2009, 12:13 AM   #18
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sounds like a **** load of cash to me.
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Old 07-01-2009, 12:15 AM   #19
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^^agreed. weren't you selling everything off you car a little while ago because you got bored with the power or something? or is this the reason you were trying to sell that stuff.
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Old 07-01-2009, 12:32 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stames_wiltz View Post
I am not sad about not racing it at MMP or RMR. I just like the saying of, it is better to have it and not need it, then to need it and not have it.
As much as I love me some stoplight to stoplight, really NO tracking the car, at all?! Do not get me wrong the build sounds insane, for solid and swift 1/4 mi passes anyway. Do you have a buddy with a turb Porsche you want to show who is boss?

Why no addition in extensive fuel mods?
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Old 07-01-2009, 01:34 AM   #21
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No rotated, EWG FTL! It is too loud and obnoxious. I don't want to re-route it into the exhaust either. It isn't an option. I don't care.

Godfather I know you hate the green. I wasn't a fan of the old green either. But Now everyone has the D3 and I want to be different.

It is an ***load of cash.

APS 70mm CAI= $275
APS 3" inlet = $250
Turbo = $1524
FMIC = $1,200
TGV delete = $300
Gizmo thermal gasket =$100
DW 850cc inj. = $550
Motor = $6500
Cobb pulley = $150
Cobb inc. up pipe=$325
Cobb TBE = $1,250
ACT Clutch = $685
Cusco spray nozzle = $150
Cobb APv2 = $700
ATi clock pod= $125
Gauges = $300
Limited Lip= $500
Mudflaps = $120
Coilovers = $1,250
Cobb F+R sways = $350
StopTech SS lines = $150
Hawk HP+ pads= $250
Toyo R888's= $1,200
Cobb exhaust hangers = ?
missing other stuff, plus the other crap I bought and then sold at half price like Dom 3, Meth kit, Cobb SF intake, Cobb springs, etc...

Tuning on previous setups and install work at Solid... ?

Total = Over $22,000 easy. You got to pay to play.

Prepped for racing and the wife puts here foot down on a blown motor. choices are, repair and sell or repair and don't race. I choose not to race but keep the car.

I don't race from stop light to stop light. Sure it is viewed as a waste of money. I really couldn't care less what anyone of you think. No I don't have a buddy with a Turbo porsche. I just like to have my head pulled into the back seat. No additional fuel mods like Fuel pressure regulator or rails because I am just plain out of money.

It is a weekend car and a weekend summer car only. It doesn't leave the garage from the first day it snows till a couple rain storms wash the salt away. It is my hobby.
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Old 07-01-2009, 01:39 AM   #22
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Total = Over $22,000 easy. You got to pay to play.
Yes but unfortunately it sounds like there wont be too much playing lol. Awesome build though. Props!
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Old 07-01-2009, 01:47 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Stames_wiltz View Post
Prepped for racing and the wife puts here foot down on a blown motor. choices are, repair and sell or repair and don't race. I choose not to race but keep the car.

I don't race from stop light to stop light. Sure it is viewed as a waste of money. I really couldn't care less what anyone of you think. No I don't have a buddy with a Turbo porsche. I just like to have my head pulled into the back seat. No additional fuel mods like Fuel pressure regulator or rails because I am just plain out of money.

It is a weekend car and a weekend summer car only. It doesn't leave the garage from the first day it snows till a couple rain storms wash the salt away. It is my hobby.
I can understand the wife ultimatums. I apologize, I was not following you or your car previous to this thread, did you blow your previous motor at the track? I am pleased to hear you are also not an ***hat racing on the road, trying to throw down on the exotics.

You should be building this car for you, because you will be the one driving it Everyone can appreciate a solid dose of torque throwing you into the seat. Regardless of what you care or think, I am interested to see where you end up, good luck.
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Old 07-01-2009, 10:40 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stames_wiltz View Post
No rotated, EWG FTL! It is too loud and obnoxious. I don't want to re-route it into the exhaust either. It isn't an option. I don't care.

Godfather I know you hate the green. I wasn't a fan of the old green either. But Now everyone has the D3 and I want to be different.

It is an ***load of cash.

APS 70mm CAI= $275
APS 3" inlet = $250
Turbo = $1524
FMIC = $1,200
TGV delete = $300
Gizmo thermal gasket =$100
DW 850cc inj. = $550
Motor = $6500
Cobb pulley = $150
Cobb inc. up pipe=$325
Cobb TBE = $1,250
ACT Clutch = $685
Cusco spray nozzle = $150
Cobb APv2 = $700
ATi clock pod= $125
Gauges = $300
Limited Lip= $500
Mudflaps = $120
Coilovers = $1,250
Cobb F+R sways = $350
StopTech SS lines = $150
Hawk HP+ pads= $250
Toyo R888's= $1,200
Cobb exhaust hangers = ?
missing other stuff, plus the other crap I bought and then sold at half price like Dom 3, Meth kit, Cobb SF intake, Cobb springs, etc...

Tuning on previous setups and install work at Solid... ?

Total = Over $22,000 easy. You got to pay to play.
Prepped for racing and the wife puts here foot down on a blown motor. choices are, repair and sell or repair and don't race. I choose not to race but keep the car.

I don't race from stop light to stop light. Sure it is viewed as a waste of money. I really couldn't care less what anyone of you think. No I don't have a buddy with a Turbo porsche. I just like to have my head pulled into the back seat. No additional fuel mods like Fuel pressure regulator or rails because I am just plain out of money.

It is a weekend car and a weekend summer car only. It doesn't leave the garage from the first day it snows till a couple rain storms wash the salt away. It is my hobby.

But you are not coming out to play

Nice build I am sure you will be happy.
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Old 07-01-2009, 11:18 AM   #25
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Geez some people...
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