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Old 12-19-2012, 01:00 PM   #1601
Calamity Jesus
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Originally Posted by A W View Post
It's not like a camera and its microphone can replace human ears. But if you want to assume that's what it sounds like without having even sat in it, maybe you should take a seat if you can't stand it.
I was referring explicitly to the pitch as the rpms slide up and down.. I don't need a studio mic to hear it. Troll harder.
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Last edited by Calamity Jesus; 12-19-2012 at 04:18 PM. Reason: *rpms not 'rps' :derp:
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Old 12-19-2012, 01:02 PM   #1602
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Originally Posted by geddesk2 View Post
The Harmon Kardon system in Outback and Legacy isn't that great to be honest. Assuming its going to be the same one in the forester...its better than what the current one has but is by no means something to get overly excited about.

It might be better if its paired with the newer nav as its a better HU than what the current Outback/Legacy use however.

Is McIntosh a better system? Subaru did that for a second here and still does in Japan.
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Old 12-19-2012, 02:29 PM   #1603
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Originally Posted by lark6 View Post
Is it just me or do the rear seats look kind of slabby?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brahmzy View Post
Can't get much flatter than that, lol.
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Originally Posted by lark6 View Post
Really? The seat back looks completely flat to me below the shoulders.
When I saw it at the LA Auto Show, I recall thinking that the seats -- at least the leather -- had a pretty boring stitch pattern, both front and back. But they are much more comfortable than they look.

The rear seats in the new Forester will accommodate even tall 6-footers in reasonable comfort. It's pretty typical for the rear seats to have less lateral support, so as to be able to accommodate three across (like a bench seat) as well as to facilitate flat-folding seat backs.

While it looks "slabby" in the photos, the contour and comfort is no worse than any other car's rear seat I have sat in. On the contrary, the Forester is probably in the top 10% of best overall rear seat comfort for ANY class of cars, IMHO. So no worries.
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Old 12-19-2012, 02:31 PM   #1604
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It's almost 2013, eps105! The future is right MEOW!
Huh?
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Old 12-19-2012, 02:36 PM   #1605
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Huh?
Calamity and I were trying to prod you into using a photo-share site. He mentioned a fairly simple one you could use.
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Old 12-20-2012, 07:14 PM   #1606
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Are the water pumps the same part numbers?

Same part number...
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Old 12-21-2012, 10:27 AM   #1607
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I've never seen any glowing review for the H/K system within the Subaru line-up. I wouldn't hold my breath either.
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Old 12-21-2012, 11:51 AM   #1608
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Seriously, A W. Give it a rest. I get tired of reporting your offensive posts. You were on an okay streak for a while there actually giving useful information without offending, but you've just reset the clock.

If you can only learn anything through first-hand experience, I feel sorry for you for all that time you'll inevitably waste in life.

In other news, I'm glad for the video. I was curious to know what a turbocharged engine mated to a CVT sounded like as it passed. The CVT already feels like an infinitely-spooling turbo, so I'm still curious to know (first-hand, I might add) what it feels like to drive one. The sound IS disappointing, though.
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Old 12-21-2012, 01:12 PM   #1609
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When I saw it at the LA Auto Show, I recall thinking that the seats -- at least the leather -- had a pretty boring stitch pattern, both front and back. But they are much more comfortable than they look.

The rear seats in the new Forester will accommodate even tall 6-footers in reasonable comfort. It's pretty typical for the rear seats to have less lateral support, so as to be able to accommodate three across (like a bench seat) as well as to facilitate flat-folding seat backs.

While it looks "slabby" in the photos, the contour and comfort is no worse than any other car's rear seat I have sat in. On the contrary, the Forester is probably in the top 10% of best overall rear seat comfort for ANY class of cars, IMHO. So no worries.
....And infant car seats.
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Old 12-21-2012, 06:05 PM   #1610
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eps105 View Post
When I saw it at the LA Auto Show, I recall thinking that the seats -- at least the leather -- had a pretty boring stitch pattern, both front and back. But they are much more comfortable than they look.

The rear seats in the new Forester will accommodate even tall 6-footers in reasonable comfort. It's pretty typical for the rear seats to have less lateral support, so as to be able to accommodate three across (like a bench seat) as well as to facilitate flat-folding seat backs.

While it looks "slabby" in the photos, the contour and comfort is no worse than any other car's rear seat I have sat in. On the contrary, the Forester is probably in the top 10% of best overall rear seat comfort for ANY class of cars, IMHO. So no worries.
Thanks for that, good to know my eyes deceived me.
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Old 12-21-2012, 10:06 PM   #1611
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I've never seen any glowing review for the H/K system within the Subaru line-up. I wouldn't hold my breath either.
AutoTrader.com Real World Test: "the Legacy Limited gets a nine-speaker Harman Kardon audio system, which sounds excellent."
http://www.autotrader.com/research/a...world-test.jsp

Car Connection video road test: "...a fab Harman/Kardon sound system with 440 watts of power. It'll pump out NPR's Morning Edition with such clarity, even Nina Totenberg will make perfect sense."
http://www.thecarconnection.com/news...ideo-road-test
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Old 12-22-2012, 09:57 AM   #1612
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Because you're defensive and can't see things any other way unless it's spelled out.
nah... he has a point. I called attention to it awhile ago, and it wasn't even directed at me.
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Old 12-23-2012, 11:32 AM   #1613
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Looks like Subaru updated their spec sheet on their site: http://www.subaru.com/2014-forester.html

It would appear they removed the words "paddle shifters" from the spec sheet, as it now reads just Lineartronic CVT. Further down under "Transmissions" it reads: available Lineartonic CVT with low mode (2.5i models) or 6 and 8-speed manual modes (2.0XT models).

The recommended fuel is 91-octane with no * next to horsepower saying it only gets the 250HP with 94 as shown in the press release spec sheet.

Also, I didn't see anything about towing specs, which I could of swore was there before. Can someone confirm this?
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Old 12-24-2012, 12:52 AM   #1614
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Originally Posted by JustyWRC View Post
Impreza part#45119AG010 Crosstrek part#45119SC010.

So, that answers that debate. Now we just need to find out the Forester thing. That will be much harder since SOA doesn't care to compare USDM and the rest of the world.
Those could very well be the same radiator. SC replacing AG. AG was the designation for older Legacy/Outback platforms and SC for the current Forester...


MEANING: The radiator has nothing to do with the low tow rating since those generations had towing specs well over 2K lbs. I'm leaning toward the CVT trans as being the hang-up. Perhaps, during testing, the trans had issues. I dunno. Not buying one until they change the rating.
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Old 12-24-2012, 01:04 AM   #1615
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Those could very well be the same radiator. SC replacing AG. AG was the designation for older Legacy/Outback platforms and SC for the current Forester...


MEANING: The radiator has nothing to do with the low tow rating since those generations had towing specs well over 2K lbs. I'm leaning toward the CVT trans as being the hang-up. Perhaps, during testing, the trans had issues. I dunno. Not buying one until they change the rating.

If you go in right now and ask for a radiator for an Impreza, you'll get one part. If you ask for a radiator for a Crosstrek, you'll get a different part. If the part numbers are different, there is a difference in those parts. This is based off my limited experience since working at the dealership and the extensive experience from my parts guy(25years+).

My zone trainer ran this up the ladder for an answer. It came back from the national product manager.

And why would you cut out the part of my quote that explained that difference?

Are the Foresters overseas getting ALL the same parts that affect towing that we are getting?
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Old 12-24-2012, 01:27 AM   #1616
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Sometimes they are, sometimes they are not. Sometimes the parts go down the ladder of numbers (brakes come to mind, but radiators too) of one superseding the other. I'm not saying they are necessarily the same, but both those part numbers are from past or current US market cars that have a tow rating substantially higher than the pitiful 1500 rating for new Foz. The differences you mentioned had little to do with the tow ratings of the initial vehicles they were designed for. Why should it be any different for a new model which receives the donor radiator? Platform too heavy? Like I said, I do not know.

I worked parts, too, yo! Not trying to call you out on your info. Chill.
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Old 12-24-2012, 09:40 AM   #1617
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Sometimes they are, sometimes they are not. Sometimes the parts go down the ladder of numbers (brakes come to mind, but radiators too) of one superseding the other. I'm not saying they are necessarily the same, but both those part numbers are from past or current US market cars that have a tow rating substantially higher than the pitiful 1500 rating for new Foz. The differences you mentioned had little to do with the tow ratings of the initial vehicles they were designed for. Why should it be any different for a new model which receives the donor radiator? Platform too heavy? Like I said, I do not know.

I worked parts, too, yo! Not trying to call you out on your info. Chill.

I understand that. It comes down to total design. New car. New transmission. The radiator it takes to tow 2400lbs, they deemed to pricey for the USDM market. BS I think. I can't imagine it being SOOO much more expensive to sacrifice that much rating. The questions I field about towing have grown the past couple years. I agree this is a big step backwards. As I believe the new Forester will sell like mad, I also think this lower tow rating my sway a few folks to get an Outback instead.
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Old 12-24-2012, 11:58 AM   #1618
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Originally Posted by JustyWRC View Post
I understand that. It comes down to total design. New car. New transmission. The radiator it takes to tow 2400lbs, they deemed to pricey for the USDM market. BS I think. I can't imagine it being SOOO much more expensive to sacrifice that much rating. The questions I field about towing have grown the past couple years. I agree this is a big step backwards. As I believe the new Forester will sell like mad, I also think this lower tow rating my sway a few folks to get an Outback instead.
If it costs them $10 more for the upgraded radiator, over a production run of 100,000, that's $1 million saved. They are betting that they will not lose $1 million in sales over the lower tow rating. We should all be glad there is actually a part difference that caused them to lower the tow rating and it isn't just a marketing move to get you into a more expensive model like some companies would do (cough VW cough).
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Old 12-24-2012, 11:40 PM   #1619
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If it costs them $10 more for the upgraded radiator, over a production run of 100,000, that's $1 million saved. They are betting that they will not lose $1 million in sales over the lower tow rating. We should all be glad there is actually a part difference that caused them to lower the tow rating and it isn't just a marketing move to get you into a more expensive model like some companies would do (cough VW cough).
If it only cost them $10 more, they would pass it on to the consumer and just add it to the final price of the vehicle. Considering the thing you have to worry about the most when towing something is the transmission over heating, I would guess it has more to do with the move to a CVT over the traditional automatic. Add to that better brakes and a higher gear ration in the rear differential, the price of the vehicle goes up and the gas mileage goes down.

Your idea of a marketing move is probably closer to the truth. The Outback, which has a higher tow rating is only about $2,000 more than the Forester. To add the equipment to make it tow more would increase the final cost of the Forester and would probably bring it too close to the price of the Outback and take away from sales. Besides the Forester seems to be more positioned to compete with the RAV4 and CRV, which both to my understanding have the same 1,500 lb tow rating. Where as the Outback in my opinion will now be the Tribeca replacement moving forward.

I personally was in the market for a new Outback until I heard of the new Forester. The Forester has better gas mileage, better looks IMHO, Eyesight is available, it is available with turn signals on the mirrors, keyless start, it has more interior room and it's about $2,000 cheaper. The only thing the Outback has going for it now is the tow rating. If the tow rating was higher on the Forester, who would buy an Outback?
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Old 12-25-2012, 01:58 AM   #1620
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Looks like Subaru updated their spec sheet on their site: http://www.subaru.com/2014-forester.html

It would appear they removed the words "paddle shifters" from the spec sheet, as it now reads just Lineartronic CVT. Further down under "Transmissions" it reads: available Lineartonic CVT with low mode (2.5i models) or 6 and 8-speed manual modes (2.0XT models).

The recommended fuel is 91-octane with no * next to horsepower saying it only gets the 250HP with 94 as shown in the press release spec sheet.

Also, I didn't see anything about towing specs, which I could of swore was there before. Can someone confirm this?
Yes, it would seem the fine print is gone from the bottom detailing the HP requirement for the 250 HP from the turbo. They also "corrected" the paddle shifter label. As for the tow rating, I never really noticed it at all so I wouldn't know if they actually removed it. I'm interested when we'll get our 2014 Subaru Forester configurator on the Subaru.com website.
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Old 12-26-2012, 11:00 AM   #1621
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http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2...toGuide.com%29

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Subaru has announced its lineup for the 2013 Tokyo Auto Salon, where enthusiasts will undoubtedly be interested to see its BRZ Premium Sport Package Concept, Forester Sport Concept, and XV Sport Concept.

The newly-launched Forester model will also be featured with a Sport Concept package featuring 20-inch BBS wheels and prototype STi parts and suspension components. A similar set of upgrades will also be seen on the XV crossover model.
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Old 12-26-2012, 12:03 PM   #1622
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Originally Posted by A W View Post
Yes, it would seem the fine print is gone from the bottom detailing the HP requirement for the 250 HP from the turbo. They also "corrected" the paddle shifter label. As for the tow rating, I never really noticed it at all so I wouldn't know if they actually removed it. I'm interested when we'll get our 2014 Subaru Forester configurator on the Subaru.com website.
Hi all,

Allow me to cut through the myths and facts with the HP rating for the turbo using various octanes of premium.

At the L.A. Auto Show, one of the reps at the show showed me an iPad containing dealer training materials for the new Forester. This is how I learned of the exterior/interior color combos that I posted several weeks ago. Another slide contained the following.

Regardless of what details people are trying to extract from partially-released specs, the fact is, what is written below is what SOA is training their own reps, so I expect this to be factual.

This is typed in verbatim to what was written; no more no less, so don't ask me for any more details.....


2.0XT - Premium Fuel Recommended

* Power unit developed for maximum efficiency & performance using premium (93 AKI) gasoline

* Owners may use regular (87-91 AKI) fuel, but may see reduced performance and/or fuel economy
-- Reduction depends on driving style; more noticeable in spirited driving, may not be noticeable in certain city driving situations
*Lower octane fuel won't increase engine wear

* Lower octane fuel should not be used when towing or at higher altitudes when engine load is higher

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Old 12-26-2012, 12:12 PM   #1623
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*Power unit developed for maximum efficiency & performance using premium (93 AKI) gasoline

*Lower octane fuel should not be used when towing or at higher altitudes when engine load is higher
And then there's the whole problem of not being able to get 93 at higher altitudes. So, how's that gonna work?

--kC
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Old 12-26-2012, 08:31 PM   #1624
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And then there's the whole problem of not being able to get 93 at higher altitudes. So, how's that gonna work?

--kC
It doesn't change the fact that Subaru is trying to sweep it under the rug that with 91 octane the HP is NOT 250. It's pathetic that they're trying to advertise it as otherwise on the website.
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Old 12-26-2012, 08:42 PM   #1625
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Did any of you think that your junk 91 ever gave you brochure performance? Talk to tuners, there is a big difference between 91 and 93. You always need 93 to get peak numbers.
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