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Old 10-03-2015, 10:42 PM   #1
neurosis05
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Omaha, Ne
Vehicle:
2005 WRX stage II
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Default KYB Excel-G Strut and epic lowering spring combo

Does anyone run this setup?

I installed epic lowering springs a few years ago but I believe I'm in need of new struts.
Before the install of the lowering springs I noticed uneven cupping on the inside of all four tires. I figured I would inspect my stock struts during install and I saw no leaks. So after install I got an alignment and new tires.

But I'm still seeing uneven cupping. I've taken it in to two separate shops and both say my alignment is on. So I'm assuming it's time for new struts. This is my daily and it has 180k on it so I'm not looking to drop a ton of cash. So if you have other suggestions to pair with my current lowering springs please keep that in mind.

05 wrx
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Old 10-04-2015, 09:31 PM   #2
mdean12
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2017 WRX
CBS

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Have the same setup on my 04 sedan. The drop in the front and rear is really nice looking but not too aggressive. The ride on smooth roads is nice and firm but on harsher surfaces things tend to get a bit bumpy and mildly jumpy at times. I'm running a 24mm rear sway bar, so that lends some harshness to the ride.
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Old 10-09-2015, 10:32 AM   #3
cmiovino
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2004 WRX with Epic springs and KYB Excel-G's checking in. I autocross and daily drive, so I have a few things to say about this combo.

I've had GF2010 springs on KYB AGX struts for my Outback and obviously the stock forms of both. We have my old WRX springs with new KYB Excel-G on my Dad's Forester too for comparison.

Overall, I'm happy with the setup for the street. It works and lowers the front in relation to the real. Barely looks lowered really. Most of the time, the ride is compliant and absorbes bumps well. Especially small ones. The progressive nature of the springs allows this as their rates are lower when you're not pushing them, but 'stiffen' up when you're pushing it on the street. Any larger bumps are clearly felt more, but this is normal with any type of lowering.

The ride is jumpy/bumpy, especially on this certain spot of highway I drive - this would be my biggest complaint. Proper suspensions should absorb bumps and settle the car. This setup allows the car to jump and hop over bumps, not absorb them, which upsets the balance of the car at the limit. I feel this is mainly a strut issues... not necessarily the dampening, but the valving and design of the strut. If you had a more expensive, better valved strut like Ohlins or something, you wouldn't have this.

For autocross, I do well with long sweepers. The grip is there with 200TW tires and 22mm rear swaybar and strut braces (which are only for feel/response). Even the tightest street corners are considered long sweepers for autox. I feel there is a LOT of body roll still when really throwing it around. Any pictures I've seen of my car corning hard it's all compressed down, tire tucked up in the wheel well. I can feel it happening too. It's not necessarily sloppy, but it's not tight.

My recommendation is even for the street, it's a cheap setup that's just a little better than stock in terms of performance. As far as visual lowering, they certainly look good, but anytime you lower, you really need to be running a higher spring rate... higher than these even. These were made for someone looking for looks and a tiny bit of performance upgrade.... not autox or any track driving. So they will probably meet your needs and be a big increase over your worn out struts, but any new strut will be. The struts were only $250 or so shipped and the springs I got for $200 shipped as they were a prototype.

If I were to do it all again though, even for the street, I'd go with a bit firmer of a spring, but something close in terms of ride height. Swift or RCE would by my pick. RCE Blacks, but even the Yellows would be good for the street. I'd toss out the Excel-G's all together if I were to do it again. KYB AGX are now available for the 04-05, which they weren't when I was looking. D-Specs are a lot more and are also now back in stock. The AGX, although not a great strut, would give you the ability to match the dampening level with the springs a bit more. 3 front and 6 rear would be a good daily driving choice. This would be firmer than even the Excel-G, but the Epic springs would soften the blow with their progressive rates.

Your strut choice has a lot to do with how the car absorbs bumps and dips... or even potholes. The KYBs are essentially stock replacements with 20% stiffer dampening. They work well with stock springs for average drivers.

All depends on what you want to spend. If you're buying new, I'd pick the RCE blacks over the Epics hands down for essentially the same price. Struts are more important than the springs... KYBs are cheap replacements that will work, but won't provide the absolute correct dampening for even the spring rates of the Epics. Something slightly firmer will provide a better controlled and even enjoyable ride.
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Old 10-21-2015, 11:12 AM   #4
lowchacho
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Just picked up an 04 WRX with 75K miles. I'm looking to replace the struts and springs. Early research has me leaning towards STI Spriings, RCE, or Swifts matched to D-Specs.

My only concern would be most of this research is from several years ago, have other options become available?

Last edited by lowchacho; 10-21-2015 at 11:37 AM.
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Old 10-21-2015, 01:05 PM   #5
SwollRX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowchacho View Post
Just picked up an 04 WRX with 75K miles. I'm looking to replace the struts and springs. Early research has me leaning towards STI Spriings, RCE, or Swifts matched to D-Specs.

My only concern would be most of this research is from several years ago, have other options become available?
A bit OT on this thread;

What are you using your car for; daily street, autocross, track, rally, etc..?

Maybe a few new stuff here n there, but you are on the right path in your choice of springs (STi, RCE, Swift) and struts (D-specs, Konis, AGX) and top hats (STi Group N) if performance spring/struts is your goal. There are good coilovers out there (like FEAL and KW) too, usually in the $1,500+ range. If performance suspension is your goal, don't cheap out, TiC is a great place to answer your suspension needs!

We have quite a few threads that discuss these options too.

Last edited by SwollRX; 10-21-2015 at 01:15 PM.
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Old 10-21-2015, 02:55 PM   #6
chimchimm5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmiovino View Post
The ride is jumpy/bumpy, especially on this certain spot of highway I drive - this would be my biggest complaint. Proper suspensions should absorb bumps and settle the car. This setup allows the car to jump and hop over bumps, not absorb them, which upsets the balance of the car at the limit. I feel this is mainly a strut issues... not necessarily the dampening, but the valving and design of the strut. If you had a more expensive, better valved strut like Ohlins or something, you wouldn't have this.
This seems to be because the spring rate is too high for the damper to control without oscillating too much. "underdamped" will eventually settle the spring... given time... and during that time it will oscillate with diminishing amplitude.

But that assumes a single bump; which is unrealistic in most situations.

Back when I had an 06 WRX wagon, I set my Ohlins FPS for the minimum setting (paired with SPT pinks) just to see what it was like.... and it was as one would expect. It was mostly nice on the street until you ran over uneven surfaces where it would wallow a bit. In some cases it would cause the car to want to "slingshot" up into the air. I think what was happening was a bump would compress the spring; and since it was underdamped, it would compress the spring further due to momentum of the compression. With all that energy stored into the spring it would jump on underdamped rebound. Basically an uncontrolled spring.

So I have doubts that the Excel-G is good to pair with anything but stock springs (which they are intended for). It will work, and you'll get to where you need to go, and you can even compensate for it while doing things like autox, but it seems to be handicap on your car's potential.

My theory is that controlling the movement of the weight shift of the car is one of the most important factors in performance. Rules can regulate power, weight, tire compound, etc. But damping is dynamic and that makes it voodoo. Which means... allocate a larger portion of your budget to buying the best voodoo.

Also, I don't know if it applied to this application of the Exel-G, but KYB's stance a long time ago was that if a spring lowers at all, then use the AGX. But there are a lot of variables that the manufacturer never releases spec on and you have to rely on someone trial and error to figure out. This was due to the operation range of travel of Excel-G assumes stock springs; whereas supposedly AGX have a larger operating range so they are better suited for non-stock spec springs.

Last edited by chimchimm5; 10-21-2015 at 03:48 PM.
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Old 10-21-2015, 07:52 PM   #7
4eat05
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I dont have Epic springs, but I did recently install 4 new Kyb Excel G's with Group N top hats and Sti springs (and some other things) on my 05 Wrx and I really enjoy the Kyb's for what they are. Sure, firmer struts would suit the Sti springs a little better, but I've really had no complaints so far. As my DD I love the setup considering how cheap it was and it does well enough for me at the dragstrip, the one time I autox'd and all the time I fly down dirt roads.

If Sti struts, Kyb Agx, Dspecs, Koni, Ohlins are too much $$ for you, get the Excel G's. Though I will probably get Sti struts and have Feal rebuild them if I ever have to replace them again.
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Old 10-22-2015, 10:57 AM   #8
SwollRX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4eat05 View Post
I dont have Epic springs, but I did recently install 4 new Kyb Excel G's with Group N top hats and Sti springs (and some other things) on my 05 Wrx and I really enjoy the Kyb's for what they are. Sure, firmer struts would suit the Sti springs a little better, but I've really had no complaints so far. As my DD I love the setup considering how cheap it was and it does well enough for me at the dragstrip, the one time I autox'd and all the time I fly down dirt roads.
STi take-offs are probably the stiffest spring I would recommend with Excel G/ GR2.

there is also trying to get your hands on some used STi struts (2004 STi for WRX) and send them on to FEAL for rebuild/revalve.
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