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09-14-2012, 11:26 PM | #1 |
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Can CL to OL Delay cause me to run lean in transition to boost?
Can CL to OL Delay Cause Me To Run Lean During Boost For 1 to 2 Secs?
That's the million dollar question. Its like no matter what I do in the "Primary Open Loop Fuelling" map I'm running lean for a second or two in WOT (transition from cruising to WOT in a low gear). Isn't it true if your MAF scaling is good, Fuel scaling is good then the ECU uses the "Primary Open Loop Fueling" map to target your A/F in open loop? Can it be that there is such a delay that I run lean before the ECU says everything is good then transitions to WOT? If that's the case, what tables do I have to zero out? I've been reading around and its flying over my brain and making me go cross eyed.
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Last edited by OC_Nooby; 09-14-2012 at 11:49 PM. |
09-15-2012, 12:54 AM | #2 |
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Yes, it has been known to be a problem on 04+ wrxs for years now.
Zero out the entire first table in the CL/OL delay folder, it will turn of all the delays and fueling will follow your primary OL table |
09-15-2012, 09:15 AM | #3 |
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Depending on your mods it could be tip in enrichment as well.
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09-15-2012, 11:16 AM | #4 | |
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Quote:
Noted, Thank You! |
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09-15-2012, 04:03 PM | #5 |
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Me and many others leave some delay in the CL/OL transition. It helps fuel economy slightly, A/F learning, and overall light throttle driveability (if you have them set correctly)
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09-15-2012, 05:20 PM | #6 |
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I was wondering bout this subject also!
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09-15-2012, 09:27 PM | #7 |
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09-15-2012, 09:41 PM | #8 |
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I set the values to 0 and am happy. I get proper A/F while going partial throttle/boost now! Before it would just be lean for to long before it switched to the Open Loop Map.
I do go a tad lean if i'm ever so slightly on the throttle (10% tps) but I've made adjustments to the tip in enrichment (added 20%), so I'll see how it helps out! Regardless, zeroing out the delays gave me the control I needed in the Primary Open Loop Fuelling map. |
09-16-2012, 04:52 PM | #9 |
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09-17-2012, 12:43 AM | #10 |
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20% tip in enrichment didn't help. It weird as I give 10 throttle the car will go from 14.7 to low 14's (which I want) then will climb back up to 15.5 stumble slightly then go back and its fine. Its not very constant. Sometimes it happens other times nothing.
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09-17-2012, 08:41 AM | #11 |
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Maf leak?
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09-17-2012, 12:54 PM | #12 |
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09-17-2012, 01:03 PM | #13 |
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Yes, in fact that's actually what it's there for. The entire purpose of the CL/OL delay is to keep the fueling at stoich for a few seconds even if the primary OL fueling table says it should be lower.
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09-17-2012, 02:33 PM | #14 | |
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Quote:
There's also a set of tables for the CL target AFR. In my OEM tune it didn't enrich as much as I'd like as load increased, so that could probably also use some tweaking. Look for "CL Fueling Target Compensation (Load)." |
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09-17-2012, 02:59 PM | #15 |
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Tip in takes time and practice to get right. But once you do, it drives much smoother with throttle changes.
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09-18-2012, 09:07 PM | #16 | |
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Quote:
Baby Steps I Suppose |
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09-18-2012, 09:15 PM | #17 |
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Agreed. Often the tip-in effect is too fast to even capture in a log, it's really something you need to work on qualitatively with a high frequency permanent-install wideband and gauge. It can definitely be a PITA to tune...but it can make a big difference when it's not right.
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09-26-2012, 06:05 PM | #18 |
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OK, so I fixed the header leak and currently trying to make sense of this lean spike:
RPM MAP LC-1 TPS % 2224 -0.15 14.83 32.16 2251 0.17 14.83 34.51 2221 0.35 16.17 35.69 2221 0.46 16.17 36.08 2240 0.54 15.96 36.47 2244 0.62 15.96 37.25 2244 0.66 15.32 37.25 2257 0.7 15.32 37.25 2240 0.75 15.05 37.65 2240 0.81 15.05 37.65 2254 0.85 14.8 38.04 So far I've enriched the tip in A LOT from 25%-35% TPS (testing it out in a sec) [Selection1D] 25.3 27.1 29.4 34.8 [Selection1D] 7.78 7.97 8.06 8.16 If that fails I'll start lowering the values between 2k-2.4k in the CL Fuelling Target Compensation (Load) map. I have no clue where else to look... |
09-26-2012, 07:27 PM | #19 |
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That failed, I got it to not spike as much but yah. Its better for sure but not 100% there. I think in time the ECU will learn (which I don't want). Still need some suggestions
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09-26-2012, 07:59 PM | #20 |
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What's your setup? Mods and such?
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09-26-2012, 08:32 PM | #21 |
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2.5l STI, stock compression, built.
FIC 1100cc injectors ATP GT3076R running 22psi One step colder NGK iridium plugs STI TMIC My throttle plate is sticky, something to note. Doubt that will fix anything but I need to fix that! |
09-27-2012, 02:08 PM | #22 |
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Well I was wondering if you we're running a fmic but since that isn't the case nevermind.
The CL compensation table seems like a good place to look. I'd be interested to see a log with the CL to OL status. Sorry if you already touched upon that. Last edited by mavstang73; 09-27-2012 at 02:17 PM. |
09-27-2012, 02:13 PM | #23 |
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This is killing me! Everything I do causes no change!
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09-27-2012, 02:50 PM | #24 |
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OK! so I unplugged my front o2 sensor and guess what. First thing it transitioned properly and the A/F didn't spike up with partial throttle.
The only thing was that its lean to start of with (16-17 A/F). The main test was when I went partial throttle it didn't spike up and the A/F transition lowered. Heck it felt just as smooth running higher 16-17 A/F as it was running 14.4-15 A/F with the o2 in. Also, my car idled nicely. Usually at first start it goes a little all over the place but perfect once warmed up. I hope to god this is my issue. |
09-27-2012, 03:00 PM | #25 |
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You might try tuning the car in straight open loop (what you're running now). When you're satisfied that's it's hitting target and the tip-in is working correctly, you can re-enable closed loop. I have found that trying to tune tip-in with an active closed loop fueling system is very difficult.
You should also not run the car with the O2 sensor installed but not plugged in. Driving with an unpowered O2 can damage the sensor, it needs to be heated. You can alter the tune slightly to force the car into permanent open loop while still leaving the O2 installed and plugged in (and you can log from it as well). This is what I'd recommend. |
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