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10-09-2012, 11:32 AM | #26 |
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Um one last thing.
Is the car quick... in a word. YES. 270 ft lbs of torque at 2500 rpm works...VERY VERY well.
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10-09-2012, 12:09 PM | #27 |
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I would consider one of these. It would be a good upgrade from my mcs.
Btw, the steering is not "entirely electronic", it's still a mechanical shaft connected from the steering wheel to the rack. It is simply motor assisted rather than fluid being pumped assisted. |
10-09-2012, 12:54 PM | #28 | |
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Stephen just go get an Evo and be done with it. There's no resisting the Dark side. |
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10-09-2012, 01:10 PM | #29 |
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Yet, it's slow compared to other hot hatches on the market...
The 300ft-lb @ 2700rpm in my old '08 WRX (stage 1 reflash) made it a hoot to drive too.. but NASIOC told me it was slow and boring. I'd love to test drive one. |
10-09-2012, 01:42 PM | #30 |
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Actually have you read the lastest car and driver... Up until now all people had to go with is the Fords predicted numbers...
http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/co...s.-mazdaspeed3 cliff notes... the ford ST won every single performance benchmark against the GTI and MS3 0-60 mph 0-1/4 mile Slalom Skidpad Braking, 60-0 mph Braking, 80-0 mph Fuel economy, EPA The focus swept them all...It was the fastest, stopped the shortest, turned the hardest (.96g skidpad thanks to those awesome tires) I do not consider the GTI or the MS3 a competitor to this car. I consider the WRX and Golf R a competitor. Even the STI must take notice, as in some ways this car is its better. |
10-09-2012, 01:42 PM | #31 |
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10-09-2012, 02:30 PM | #32 |
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all i see are words, i just want pretty pictures.
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10-09-2012, 02:36 PM | #33 |
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One thing to note (and not cause I own one). The MS3 is VERY difficult to mod safely. The GTI is the opposite. Have known 2 people that ditched their MS3's, one after a broken turbo from a slight boost increase. My GTI with a stg1 APR is like ...fast. Stg 3 would really necessitate wider tires and an LSD IMO. I can spin thru 1st, 2nd and chirp in 3rd with Michelin Pilot Sports. I hope the Ford will hold up well to mods since it looks to be a great car!
-Mike. |
10-09-2012, 02:52 PM | #34 |
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Nice post, Scrappy. I agree with most of it. Last week, in one day i test drove a GTI, Focus ST, MS3, and a WRX (that order). My wife took a turn with each as well. Bottom line: both my wife and i would have been happy with any of them. The MS3 had by far the least linear power delivery, although it was a blast when the turbo kicked in. It was the least refined, but also the cheapest.
The GTI was definitely the slowest, and also the smallest, but it has a great interior from the driver's seat. The Focus had a bigger hatch area in square footage, but was NOT deep (that's where i disagreed with your description). Overall, my wife agreed it'd be much less useful than a MS3 or WRX hatch. I LOVED the sound of the ST, and the clutch was decent (we both preferred the GTI and WRX). The ST we drove caught VERY low, whereas the the MS3 caught VERY high. The WRX had a smooth clutch, and a nice stable, smooth ride. I preferred the feel of it, along with it's power delivery. So i placed an order the next day for a WRX. I was very close to buying the ST, though, especially at XPlan pricing for an ST2. |
10-09-2012, 03:03 PM | #35 |
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10-09-2012, 03:05 PM | #36 |
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10-09-2012, 03:37 PM | #37 |
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I like the interior of the STI over the Current EVO. They are both 5 years behind anything else in the segment as far as ergos go. As I get older that matters a little more.
PSUpunk, I would agree the ST has more rear luggage space than the GTI, but the GTI has more rear seat leg room. The folks at VW just scooted the seats back, which I think is actually smarter. Having more rear seat leg room is more important than trunk area, since you can always drop the rear seats when you need to haul something larger. This car is truly more than a match for the GTI or MS3. I think the real choice is WRX or Focus ST. You can throw in the STI and Golf R in the mix as well. |
10-09-2012, 04:05 PM | #38 | |
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The Focus ran a 14.6 in their test. The MS3 frequently tests quite a bit faster than that. It was also only .5 mph faster than the MS3 on the slalom with 235/40R-18 Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 2 vs 225/40R-18 Dunlop SP Sport 2050 on the MS3. It being a competitor to the WRX and not the MS3 or GTI is quite a stretch considering that even with their suspect testing of the MS3 it's only .1 ahead of the MS3 in the 1/4 and .5mph on the slalom |
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10-09-2012, 04:21 PM | #39 |
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You are not going to believe this, but there is more to a car than Just performance.
I owned a 2008.5 MS3, which by the way is faster than the current version. It is a powerhouse, and the power is very brutish. The ST can power strongly away at uber low RPM much like the GTI can while still not running out of breath at the top like the MS3 is famous for. Let me explain where I am coming from.. it is a whole car point of view, not just a few numbers in an instrumented performance test. The GTI is a complete waste of time compared to this car. It is so far ahead in terms of performance and at least equal in ergos the GTI has nothing more to offer other than a cushy ride. The Focus ST is so far ahead of the MS3 in terms of ergos it is silly, it does not have the Draconian nannies that the MS3 has, has an infinitely better shifter, and the performance is probably about a dead heat despite the HP difference. The MS3 is great, no doubt, but hits a wall when pushed up to 8/10's. Not sure if the electric Diff in the ST will be able to outperform the MS3, but we will see. It certainly seems to have more grip. The Focus ST took the best part of both of these two cars the GTI and the MS3 and matched or improved them. So as a whole car, the Focus ST is a smarter choice than either of its two main FWD competitors. Until the MS3 gets an update, it will be forever regulated to 2nd place behind this car in my opinion. It just comes up far too short in the refinement category. As for the tires, get over it. If Mazda decides not to put better tires on their cars its their fault. But my MS3 had 215's on it, and it was still a little go kart. The MS3 has more HP an more torque in a heavier car with narrower tires. Sounds like a problem Mazda needs to solve. However, the wider the tire, the less feel a tire can have, so every decision must be balanced with the consequences. Laugh all you want about the MS3 figures, but they are believable to me since if you even nudge the rev limiter it shuts you down like somebody flips a switch. Not being able to disable the nannies is crap. It is 90% of the reason I sold my speed3 |
10-09-2012, 04:32 PM | #40 |
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Didn't the article also mention that Mazda may not continue with the Mazdaspeed version in the future?
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10-09-2012, 04:36 PM | #41 |
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so you have one in your garage, hip...er, scrappy?
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10-09-2012, 05:02 PM | #42 | ||||
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I think that your test drive findings are fine and I'd likely agree with you if I get to take one out. But between a scoring system that seems highly subjective and scores for things like exterior design being included in the total (The ST gets a 50% higher rating than the MS3 and 40% more than the GTI for looks?) I find R&Ts results to be suspect. Last edited by Bankie; 10-09-2012 at 05:12 PM. |
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10-09-2012, 05:11 PM | #43 |
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Yeah, your points are well received.
I do not know if the article had an agenda or not. Who knows. The do tend to like the newest kid on the block, but also as time moves on things do in fact improve. Is the Focus ST better than all other FWD hot hatches. In my book it may be. Would I buy one over a WRX or STI. Not sure...about the STI, but maybe I would take one over WRX. I would have to modify the WRX to get it to feel like the ST, where as the ST is great right out of the box. 6 in one hand half a dozen in the other. |
10-09-2012, 05:13 PM | #44 |
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10-09-2012, 06:49 PM | #45 |
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For 34 - 37k msrp no thanks, its way too expensive for the same old ****.
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10-09-2012, 07:05 PM | #46 |
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10-09-2012, 07:38 PM | #47 | |
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"entirely electronic" steering |
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10-09-2012, 07:49 PM | #48 |
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Thanks Scrap
Your review gives me hope for the baby brother Fiesta ST. I really want a small car and teh fiesta ST seems like my ticket for fun. BlitZ |
10-09-2012, 08:26 PM | #49 | |
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But I digress.. |
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10-09-2012, 08:35 PM | #50 |
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I agree with SCRAPPYDO 100% In his review of the ST comparison.
As a prior owner of a 02 WRX, an 09 MS3. A frequent driver of every year STi. And owner of a 09 WRX with RCE Bil's / Yellows, and tune. If I had not already owned a MS3, I would most likley be in line right now buying an ST. I say this because of everything that was wrong with the MS3 could not outweight its awsome capabilities. The ****ty rebounding suspesions (I fixed with Bil's) The ****ty rebounding engine and transmision when all that tq came surging on like a freight (I attmpted to fix with CPE stuff). The ****ty tq control that would cut power when the steering wheel was turned more then 15 degrees leaving you feeling like you dropped anchor mid turn. And the ****ty direct injection system, most likley the cause for TONS of rods to be left in a wake of distruction. This all scares the bejesius out of me to buy another FWD car that produces that much TQ, thats just a kissing cousin away from a MS3. I think ill stick with my imperfect Subaru's untill I can buy a several year old C6 Z06 |
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