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07-11-2013, 05:11 PM | #1 |
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Oh crap! A Good Mobil 1 5W/30 UOA!!!
Next pigs will fly, unicorns will make a comeback and gas will be $0.99/gallon.
Yes, lower mileage, but I don't put a ton of miles on my car. https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6nl...it?usp=sharing |
07-11-2013, 05:33 PM | #2 | ||
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And you really shouldn't try to judge an oil on a single uoa or even on several consecutive uoa's. Quote:
-Dennis Last edited by bluesubie; 07-11-2013 at 06:17 PM. |
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07-11-2013, 05:42 PM | #3 | |
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I'm not making an overall judgement on the oil and I've been here long enough to know most are freaked out over this oil and recommend Rotella T6 (and I frequent this section and know your feelings on the subject :-)). But in my conversations with Blackstone my understanding is that it is still performing within 30 weight specs. I'm not an expert and don't profess to be however. |
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07-11-2013, 05:56 PM | #4 |
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Blackstone expects the oil to shear, as most Resource Conserving oils do. The minimum viscosity for a 30 grade oil is 9.30 cSt's at 100C. Your used oil is 9.26 cSt's at 100C so it is a 20 grade.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/viscosity-charts/ Flashpoint looks good but it should with only 2,500 miles. What was the previous uoa on? Dealer Subaru oil? -Dennis Last edited by bluesubie; 07-11-2013 at 06:02 PM. |
07-11-2013, 07:29 PM | #5 | |
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07-11-2013, 07:53 PM | #6 | |
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I didn't expect something amazing from the oil or the UOA but it wasn't the catastrophe I expected with all I hear around here. I had multiple email correspondence with Blackstone after receiving the UOA and even expressed my concerns about my particular engine type, shearing and such (I had similar correspondence after the first UOA) and the continually say they gave not seen issues with viscosity and the turbo: Me: "I was wondering if you might be able to explain what number I would want to look at to assess any shearing down of my oil sample. I hear a lot of people say that Mobil 1 5W/30 shears down to more like a 20 weight." Blackstone "Thanks for the question. You'd look at the viscosity readings. Anything lighter than 55.0 SUS (For Mobil 1 5W/30) would likely indicate that the oil had sheared some... though it's also possible that a low viscosity could be caused by fuel dilution or other contamination, so if you have a low viscosity, don't immediately blame the oil without first looking for contamination in case the oil was diluted by something else. In the case of your first sample, I suspect the factory had probably used a lighter oil. With that said, I know there are a lot of people on the internet that get all fired up about low viscosity readings and how the oil is breaking down and not protecting the engine and so on and so forth. I won't tell you what to do, but let me just say this: if wear metals looked great in my report, there was no fuel or water found, but the viscosity was a little low, that'd be the least of my concerns. As long as wear is low, a low viscosity reading probably isn't an issue. "Keep in mind our specs are for used engine oil, so we we take into consideration some slight variance from the factory specs. Me: "Thanks for the quick reply! If that's the case them my Mobil 1 5w/30 sample having a SUS of 56.7 would mean its still performing as a 30 weight, correct (since I have no dilution)?" Blackstone: "Exactly! As long as your results fall within the "should be" range, then your oil is reading in the proper range for the oil you're using. Those should be values will change depending on whatever oil you're using." Me: "And the "should be" range is NOT assuming or factoring in shearing? I ask because I hear resource conserving oils are "supposed" to shear to increase fuel economy. Sorry to be a pain but I don't want to be assuming anything. If an oil stays within it's "should be" range than that means it us still performing at it's listed/ should be viscosity? Is that correct?" Blackstone: "No problem at all! Keep in mind our specs are for used engine oil, so we we take into consideration some slight variance from the factory specs. For example, Mobil 1's website says that their 5W/30 oil should have a cSt viscosity reading of 11.0 (see: http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/..._1_5W-30.aspx#) Technically, since your cSt viscosity read 9.26, it has sheared a little from the factory specs, but this is still what we could consider acceptable variance for used oil. It's still within the acceptable range for a 5W/30, so for our purposes we wouldn't really say it sheared, though technically, it has sheared a little." Blackstone; "In the end, it's most important to remember that the viscosity can read whatever it wants to as long as the engine is wearing well. :-)" Me: "Normally I would think very little about it except for the turbo on my engine being lubricated by engine oil." Blackstone: "Now I see your concern. We haven't seen any evidence where a thin viscosity caused turbo bearing damage, though that can be a tough thing to prove because there are many other things that can go wrong." Me: "But despite this, if I understand, my sample's viscosity at 2500 miles (approx) is still working at 30 weight?" Blackstone: "Precisely!" |
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07-11-2013, 06:41 PM | #7 |
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lol..all the talk about how bad the reg mobil one 5w/30 and people still use it
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07-11-2013, 06:44 PM | #8 |
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So, to sum it up, thread title should be changed... Because that M1 5W30 UOA is not particularly good...
For some perspective, I mixed 1.5 qts of M1 0W30 to 4 qts of M1 0W20 and ran it 6,700 miles in my 2011 Forester 2.5X (n/a FB25 engine). It came out at 9.18 cSt@100C with flashpoint at 420F. |
07-11-2013, 08:21 PM | #9 | |
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07-11-2013, 08:53 PM | #10 |
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Certainly not trying to be pedantic and i'm all for debunking urban legends, but if anything this UOA confirms the issues with M1 5w30. As Dennis mentioned, if viscosity continues to degrade, the oil will be pretty worthless by 4 or 5k miles.
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07-11-2013, 09:11 PM | #11 | |
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Also, not that I'd condone it, but I'd wonder what it would do the longer it went. I've seen other uoa's (even for T6 I think) that apparently degraded/sheared for a bit and then seemed to get better with time. Some speculated it appeared better as more crud accumulated in the oil giving it (artificially mind you) a increased viscosity. |
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07-11-2013, 09:56 PM | #12 |
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If you change your oil every 2500 miles, why even waste the money on M1? Might as well just use the budget no name dino oil from Autozone if you're going to just wind up dumping it that quickly.
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07-12-2013, 12:19 AM | #13 |
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Like I've said, I change it based on time as I don't put a lot of miles on my car - about 4800-5000 per year. So it's no biggie to me to spend that twice per year.
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07-12-2013, 03:43 AM | #14 | |
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Dennis, what about the op running some M1 10w30 high mileage oil? |
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07-11-2013, 10:41 PM | #15 | |
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BS mentions that the factory could have used something other that 5W-30, but the first uoa is dealer fill and not factory fill. Correct? The viscosity is even lower on it, the Flashpoint is shot and the moly, zinc, and phosphorus is too low for factory fill.
You can have an oil that shears to a 20 grade with high fuel dilution and Blackstone will tell you to extend the interval. It may very well be that Mobil1 5W-30 will work well for your application (which you haven't given any details, btw), but a $30 uoa with low wear numbers does not give you 100% certainty of how your engine is being protected, especially when the oil temporarily shears (even lower than shown in a uoa) and goes into boundary lubrication. http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/states-of-lubrication/ The break-in wear numbers are lowering very nicely (and quickly) and lead is very low. Although, this type of uoa picks up wear particles of 5 microns or less so maybe you have bigger chunks of wear. Quote:
People keep saying that they will post consecutive uoa's on the same Resource Conserving oil, but they rarely do. Like the debate that I had with an engineer at iwsti. He kept telling me that nothing more that the Subaru 5W-30 is needed in a stock STI that doesn't see any track time and that he will do uoa's and post them, but he never posted again after our debate. Although, I'm not sure I would bother in your case with such low mileage. I'm actually a fan of Mobil1's more robust oils, and have used the 0W-40 and High Mileage oils, but if I ran an SN/GF5 oil it would be Pennzoil Ultra 5W-30. No off the shelf oil can touch their low NOACK volatility numbers. Not that NOACK matters much in a 2,500 mile oci. Dennis |
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07-12-2013, 12:18 AM | #16 | |
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I may have misspoken before. The first uoa was Mobil 1 5w30 but it was the GF4 (I didn't realize it until I was educating myself more on all this and realized it). Not dealer fill - I don't want them touching my car unless absolutely necessary. Always ran (and continue to use) Subaru oil filter. The second/current uoa is Mobil 1 5w/30 GF5. So order was: #1: 1500 miles on factory fill (brand new car) - no uoa - filled with GF4 Mobil 1 #2: about 1500 miles on GF4 Mobil 1 - first uoa (which if I can get to it I can post but you see the results on the current uoa - the only difference would be to see Blackstone's comments) -filled with GF5 Mobil 1 #3: about 2500 on GF5 Mobil 1 - current uoa Again, I change it at around 6 months of time and that's why the mileage is low. |
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07-12-2013, 07:57 AM | #17 |
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Looks like you had more fuel in the SM uoa so that killed the viscosity and Flashpoint. The sample was taken in winter so maybe you were running a bit more rich as well. Was the sample taken after bringing the car up to operating temp?
Stage I OTS tunes run rich and that's a very good reason why I would never run this oil, even in a moderately driven WRX. Also, BS doesn't actually test fuel. They extrapolate the reading from the flashpoint so the actual fuel will always be higher than the reading shows. For my driving conditions, Mobil1 recommended 0W-40 and that was even before the AP. subie400 - M1 HM 10W-30 meets ACEA A3 specs so it's another good choice. The M1 HM 5W-30 has a slightly lower HTHS so it doesn't meet the spec (and it has more ZDDP than this M1). I thought the OP chose 5W-30 for warranty purposes, but the warranty is a moot point with an AccessPort! -Dennis Last edited by bluesubie; 07-12-2013 at 10:20 AM. |
07-12-2013, 01:01 PM | #18 | |
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07-12-2013, 01:04 PM | #19 |
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"Stage I OTS tunes run rich and that's a very good reason why I would never run this oil, even in a moderately driven WRX."
Dennis, can you explain this to me (why running rich effects the oil I should use)? Like I said, I'm no expert! Also, I got/run the State 1 tune simply because the stock tune runs crappy and seems to be that most feel it is not detrimental to run and not necessarily for a performance upgrade. Last edited by garzdos; 07-12-2013 at 01:15 PM. |
07-12-2013, 01:52 PM | #20 | |
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A thicker oil won't help with the dilution, but you have a little more viscosity to play with if the oil shears from it. A good protune will not run as rich as an OTS tune and this is reflected in a uoa. http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2282563 Some more info: http://www.polarislabs.com/changes-i...tion-by-gc.php http://www.amsoil.com/techservicesbu...20Dilution.pdf The lab usually won't flag dilution unless it seems excessive and/or you are having increased wear. http://www.iwsti.com/forums/2-5-lite...-bearings.html No more free advice! -Dennis |
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07-12-2013, 02:10 PM | #21 | |
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07-12-2013, 04:11 PM | #22 | |
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Most of us around here recommend taking at least a half step up in viscosity due to the prevalence of spun bearings and turbo bearing failures in turbo EJ engines. It's just smart, cheap insurance. That half step would lead you to a European xw-30 like GC or M1 ESP Formula, but those oils are difficult to find and expensive, thus the recommendation to take a full step up to RT6, TDT, or M1 0w40. By all means, continue to run the GF-5 (and upcoming GF-6) M1 5w30 and keep posting the UOAs. The way you use your car, the oil likely stays cool and thick, so there's not much to worry about, just know that UOA is unlikely to catch an impending bearing or turbo failure before it's too late. |
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07-12-2013, 03:24 PM | #23 |
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GF5 oils are showing some very good uoa's so this one isn't surprising. That said, this is only one random uoa with a 2,500 mile OCI in a WRX that is still breaking in. The challenge is finding a uoa trend on a GF5 oil in a modified WRX.
-Dennis |
07-12-2013, 04:54 PM | #24 |
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GF5 offers improvements in piston cleanliness, turbocharger protection, and sludge protection. Unfortunately, there are no improvements required for wear protection.
http://www.gf-5.com/the_story/performance/ At least your engine and turbo will be clean when your engine blows up. -Dennis Last edited by bluesubie; 07-12-2013 at 05:00 PM. |
08-04-2013, 10:10 PM | #25 | |
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