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Brakes & Suspension Forum sponsored by The Tire Rack |
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09-09-2006, 11:29 PM | #1 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 121532
Join Date: Jul 2006
Chapter/Region:
SCIC
Vehicle:06 FXSTi, 06 FXTAT 06 STi Wide Body Wagon |
Newb-reads a bunch-still needs Susp. HELP.
Thanks for looking at this post.
I have an 06' 2.5i sedan, I love this car, I of late have been having the "damnit I wish I would have let my ego win and just bought the WRX" and as such have actually tried to trade in this n/a for the WRX but the hit I would take (after only owning the car for less than a month and less than 1500 miles) is too severe so for now I am going to enjoy the hell out of it and make it handle as good as it can. That being said, here is what I would like to acheive and would really appreciate any help you may offer up. I want to lower the car aprox 2". I want to retain as much of the stock ride quality/plushness (to a degree) as possible. I would rather do it with springs alone if at all possible because I would rather spend the bulk of my mad money on brakes, sway bars and other things to augment the stock components. I have 5Zigen Pro Racer GN+ wheels 18x8.5 with a 48mm offset. I have Toyo Proxes T-1R tires in 235/40/18 The help I seek after reading several hundred posts on the subject is in regards to the springs. It is my understanding that stiffer springs will quickly over power the stock struts/dampers, but it is also my understanding (having been a motorcycle racer for years) that "stiffer" springs are NOT really what is required here. I am seeking a set of springs that will do a couple of things: (1) allow me to lower the car roughly 2.5" in the front and about 2" in the rear. (2) allow me to utilize the stock struts for now without overpowering them to the point of no rebound or compression damping. (3) retain alot of the plushness I enjoy now in stock trim. My primary question with regards to lowering these cars is (A) will I still be able to bring all 4 corners into good alignment? and (B) will I be able to retain ride quality (not much stiffer but definately NOT softer). The following pics are of cars that have the stance I wish to acheive. I would love your opinions on how they got to this level, I am certain these cars are lowered. Granted the first one is not an 06, but it looks badass none the less. This car is wicked and has the same wheels I have. How can I get here without having to buy new struts/coilovers and is it worth doing for a daily driver NON track car. Thanks for all of your help!
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09-10-2006, 12:33 AM | #2 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 71875
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Montana
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I almost want to say S-techs. But I won't because they're crap.
Lowering the car takes away bump travel, and doing it without having stiffer springs means you'll be hitting the bumpstops a lot, even if you trim them. That generally tends to not be good for struts. The other problem you run into when lowering the car a bunch is the toe and camber curve. You won't have a problem getting it aligned, but the camber starts to go positive with enough compression. Lowered 2.5" on stock spring rates will allow this to happen. So you'd be running into camber issues and hitting the bumpstops in corners, which doesn't make a car handle very well. I guess it would ride okay until you hit big bumps. Maybe don't lower it so much? People seem to like the ride and look with prodrive springs. Last edited by jamal; 09-10-2006 at 12:43 AM. |
09-10-2006, 12:34 AM | #3 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 92913
Join Date: Aug 2005
Chapter/Region:
W. Canada
Location: Winnipeg, MB
Vehicle:2005 2.5RS Wagon Crystal Grey Metallic |
2 to 2.5" is a pretty heavy drop and can pretty adversely affect suspension geometry, and without a very stiff spring you'll have big problems with bottoming out on the bumpstops too. And with a stiff spring you'll wear out your stock struts in record time.
What you might want to look into is the Prodrive springs. The drop is nice, gives a slight rake for a very aggressive-looking stance many consider to be the nicest around, and with a drop somewhere in the 1.5f/1.0r range. Moderately stiffer-than-stock rates that many claim actually IMPROVE the ride with the stock struts, as some consider the stock springs to be slightly overdamped. Look at pics posted on the forum, as in many cases the guys post their mods along with the pics. Very easy to pick out a spring based on stance, but really the Prodrive is the only spring that really truly works well with stock struts. For a spring that will just flat out give you the drop you want, but give you a punishing ride and make your handling worse, look at the Tein S-tech's. Moral of the Story: A nice drop and stock ride comfort and handling are mutually exclusive. You can't get a drop without compromising stock handling/ride comfort. And that's the bottom line. |
09-10-2006, 01:00 AM | #4 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 10313
Join Date: Sep 2001
Chapter/Region:
SCIC
Location: Mission Viejo, CA
Vehicle:2002 WRX wagon silver |
Quote:
The good news is, Subaru/STi has figured all this stuff out for you. They make a couple of wonderful spring options designed for your car to "make it handle as good as it can." SPT, Subaru's performance brand in the US, offers lowering springs for the WRX. These are almost the same as the stock STi springs, and they offer a significant upgrade to the stock handling. But, they don't lower the car much at all. Proof positive I'm telling you the truth - Subaru's performance springs don't go for the slammed look because it makes an Impreza handle like poop. These springs will work "OK" with your stock struts. Don't take that to mean they'll work great with your stock struts - they won't. Your stock struts weren't designed for this much springs. But, your struts will be able to handle these springs, at least for a while. Of course, any lower, stiffer spring is going to wear out your struts faster, and the optimum handling is going to come from struts designed to handle this kind of spring. STi also offers a couple of spring upgrades for the STi, but these are not recommended for use with stock WRX struts. JDM "Pink" lowering springs are a bit stiffer and a bit lower than the above SPT springs. Then STi's "Arai" springs are even stiffer yet, though they don't lower the car any more. But, you're getting ahead of yourself because before you need to worry about springs and struts there are a few basic suspension mods every Impreza owner should do: 1. stiffer front AND rear swaybars 2. anti-lift kit 3. steering rack bushings 4. performance alignment |
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09-10-2006, 03:07 AM | #5 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 121532
Join Date: Jul 2006
Chapter/Region:
SCIC
Vehicle:06 FXSTi, 06 FXTAT 06 STi Wide Body Wagon |
Quote:
I need to qualify something, After posting the pictures above I realize that (especially the bottom most picture) is not at all my style, I think I was blinded by the fact that the car has the same wheels I chose. The stance I like the most on these cars is definitely when there is a slight rake (just slightly higher in the rear).That picture i posted, (now after re-visiting it a few times) is definitely the slammed look, and I am not at all into that. While it is nice to look at, it is clear that it is a much less aggressive looking image in my opinion. I was reading on the tires/wheel thread a couple of days ago and saw the car that I thought was easily the nicest looking Impreza I had ever seen but for the life of me I cant seem to find it again. Anyway, great information there. I am having trouble wrapping my head around spending $2000.00 for struts and springs on a car that is NOT my ideal fantasy. I am stuck with this car at least for a while and would like to make it as enjoyable as possible until a WRX trade up is not as painfull. Having said that, I am more than willing to spend the money on the mods you suggest like the F&R sway bars, rack bushings, Anti Lift kit and performance alignment. I have not yet heard nor read anywhere about the "anti lift" kit so help there would be greatly appreciated? Also, What size sway bars? What brand sway bars? What Anti Lift kit? and Which rack bushings would you recommend? I will order that stuff up along with the ProDrive springs on Monday and call up Darrin at West End Alignment here in SoCali and schedule a performance alignment. I think we are on the same page, as you described the look that I desire to a T, and I wholeheartedly agree that these other things are best done in unison as a package. If you could would you point me to an image or 2 of the cars you believe have the "stance" that many consider to be the nicest around? and from there I think I can effectively lock onto the proper springs for my car? Again, thanks for the help. Here is my motorcycle website in case you are remotely interested: http://www.teamscream.net Click on the "Madness" link to see what I am up to when not obsessing on this Impreza. |
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09-10-2006, 03:32 AM | #6 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 18006
Join Date: Apr 2002
Chapter/Region:
MWSOC
Location: St. Louis, MO
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Are you trying to research what you can do to "make it handle as good as it can" by looking at pictures of other cars? Seems to me that you should be DRIVING other Subarus to help you decide what suspension mods to do to yours. I mean, good handling is what we're talking about, right? That's all about feel, dynamics, grip, steering, etc. You can't see those things in a photograph. I'm sure there must be some guys in your area that would be happy to take you for a ride or let you drive their cars. That would give you an opportunity to feel the results of particular modifications, and help you determine how you'd like your car to work with your driving style.
That being said, I think Mark Avery nailed it in post #4. |
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