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Old 05-10-2013, 12:10 PM   #3126
subyski
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Originally Posted by lcrazyaznl View Post
Just to let you guys know I found out the tow hook is the same as the wrx/sti 08-11

GrimmSpeed License Plate Relocation Kit Subaru Impreza 2008-2011 (inc. 2008-2013 WRX/STI) / Legacy 2005-2009
GRM 094011 part number I think

There is about almost 1.5 inches between the bumper and plate.
You could adjust the Grimmspeed plate so it sits higher up.
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Old 05-10-2013, 12:20 PM   #3127
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Originally Posted by heavyD View Post

Hmm I could have sworn that latest C&D comparison has the Forrester praised as the most car-like handling of the bunch and it didn't win. I've read 3 comparisons now and the Mazda CX-5 wins them all. I'm sensing that it's because it's probably a better overall vehicle in most tester's eyes.
Not surprised the CX-5 wins because it does have a sportier ride, 6-sp AT, and now it is available with the 2.5L. Just because the Forester is more car-like handling doesn't make it sportier in handling. Now that said, other things to consider is the Forester 2.5i can be had with a 6MT, AWD, and more powerful engine. The CX-5 can be had with an MT but with the 2.0L and FWD only. So it's about packaging comparison. I think the Forester 2.5i should have the CVT with full 6 "gear" manual mode like the Impreza and XV, instead of the CVT with low mode.
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Old 05-10-2013, 01:09 PM   #3128
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Originally Posted by bWRX View Post
XT has a CVT. And yet they gave it a sport mode that pretends there are gears.

I know we probably came to a group acceptance of this fact in this thread months ago but I am still having a hard time keeping food down over this.
Have you driven a new Subaru with the CVT? It's far better than other CVTs I've driven. I'd probably take on over a traditional automatic after a few more years of proven reliability.

That said, we really need a 2015 Forester STI with the STI 6 speed manual, some limited slip diffs (clutch-type rear, please) and a bigger turbo. I think the performance hatch enthusiasts on NASIOC would flock to it.
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Old 05-10-2013, 01:29 PM   #3129
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Originally Posted by subyski View Post
You could adjust the Grimmspeed plate so it sits higher up.

I know that I set mine like that to see. I'm talking about the distance of the back of the plate to the xt bumper. I was scared it would be too short since the xt bumper sticks out longer. aka needs a longer tow hook.
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Old 05-10-2013, 01:29 PM   #3130
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Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus View Post

That said, we really need a 2015 Forester STI with the STI 6 speed manual, some limited slip diffs (clutch-type rear, please) and a bigger turbo. I think the performance hatch enthusiasts on NASIOC would flock to it.

I would!
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Old 05-10-2013, 01:29 PM   #3131
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Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus View Post
Have you driven a new Subaru with the CVT? It's far better than other CVTs I've driven.
You probably haven't driven a Honda Accord with CVT. IMO, that is the best CVT in production today.
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Old 05-11-2013, 03:04 AM   #3132
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I'm a little bummed that the xt doesn't come with a manual gearbox, but it makes sense. The target buyer, for the Forester, probably wants an auto or cvt. Hopefully the cvt handles the turbo motor's power well enough to last awhile.
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Old 05-11-2013, 11:13 AM   #3133
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I have ZERO desire to row gears in our FXT. None. Nada.
It's not a sports car, it's a CUV. The CVT does a great job.

I will never autoX, drag race or rock crawl with this heavy thing though either.
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Old 05-11-2013, 12:47 PM   #3134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus View Post
Have you driven a new Subaru with the CVT? It's far better than other CVTs I've driven. I'd probably take on over a traditional automatic after a few more years of proven reliability.

That said, we really need a 2015 Forester STI with the STI 6 speed manual, some limited slip diffs (clutch-type rear, please) and a bigger turbo. I think the performance hatch enthusiasts on NASIOC would flock to it.
I agree, I'm seriously amazed with the CVT in the Forester XT. It is smooth, doesn't make any sound that I can hear, no wind up rubberband feeling, just shifts and keeps the car in a perfect RPM band. Don't believe the reviews you read, this CVT is great.
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Old 05-11-2013, 01:43 PM   #3135
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Originally Posted by bWRX View Post
XT has a CVT. And yet they gave it a sport mode that pretends there are gears.

I know we probably came to a group acceptance of this fact in this thread months ago but I am still having a hard time keeping food down over this.
As far as sweet spots for the engine, the HTCVT does the job very well. If enthusiasts want a manual turbocharged Forester XT, they'll have to settle for a tranmissions swap or import the Forester STi from Australia, Japan, or Russia. ;D SoA doesn't believe you guys are worth bringing over a manual Forester XT.
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Old 05-11-2013, 05:46 PM   #3136
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Originally Posted by A W View Post
As far as sweet spots for the engine, the HTCVT does the job very well. If enthusiasts want a manual turbocharged Forester XT, they'll have to settle for a tranmissions swap or import the Forester STi from Australia, Japan, or Russia. ;D SoA doesn't believe you guys are worth bringing over a manual Forester XT.
If people want a manual turbocharged Forester XT, they'll buy used.
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Old 05-11-2013, 05:54 PM   #3137
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Originally Posted by gathermewool View Post
If people want a manual turbocharged Forester XT, they'll buy used.
Sure, as long as they're okay with MY04 to MY08. If they want an SH-body XT, they'll buy from Russia, Japan, or Australia as I've already said.
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Old 05-11-2013, 06:19 PM   #3138
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Originally Posted by Brahmzy View Post
I have ZERO desire to row gears in our FXT. None. Nada.
It's not a sports car, it's a CUV. The CVT does a great job.

I will never autoX, drag race or rock crawl with this heavy thing though either.
+1

I drove the new 2014 XT the other day and was very impressed. The CVT is great and paddle shifters make it fun-ner when needed.

I like manuals, but why everyone wants it on everything. It doesn't make sense on the Forester.
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Old 05-12-2013, 11:41 AM   #3139
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Does anyone think your car is a bmw because the wheels look like x5 wheels lol?

The dealership tried to get into the x5 thinking it was my forester lol



new ny vanity plates

maybe I won't be mistaken now by some subie guys at least
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Old 05-13-2013, 09:03 AM   #3140
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Originally Posted by gathermewool View Post
If people want a manual turbocharged Forester XT, they'll buy used.
What if they want a manual forester XT that doesn't look like a station wagon??

I guess they can do a manual swap, shouldn't be too hard.
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Old 05-13-2013, 09:26 AM   #3141
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Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus View Post

That said, we really need a 2015 Forester STI with the STI 6 speed manual, some limited slip diffs (clutch-type rear, please) and a bigger turbo. I think the performance hatch enthusiasts on NASIOC would flock to it.
Take up rate on the Forester XT when it was offered with a manual was about 5%. Obviously it wasn't an STI variant like you're speculating about, but if nobody bought them then, I highly doubt anybody would buy a manual Forester XT now, especially with manuals becoming less and less popular.
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Old 05-13-2013, 09:43 AM   #3142
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Originally Posted by grzydj View Post
Take up rate on the Forester XT when it was offered with a manual was about 5%. Obviously it wasn't an STI variant like you're speculating about, but if nobody bought them then, I highly doubt anybody would buy a manual Forester XT now, especially with manuals becoming less and less popular.
Yea, there is less of a need for manuals with 6+ speed auto's and CVT's which are more efficient and have the ability to shift faster. So now you are buying inferior technology just for the joy of driving a manual. People are also getting lazier IMO too, we are only 100 years away from people like the people in WALL-E.
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Old 05-13-2013, 09:53 AM   #3143
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So now you are buying inferior technology just for the joy of driving a manual.
It's totally worth it though.

While there's no need to start this debate again, it's safe to say that the manual is dying a quicker death than I thought it would.
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Old 05-13-2013, 10:21 AM   #3144
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Take up rate on the Forester XT when it was offered with a manual was about 5%. Obviously it wasn't an STI variant like you're speculating about, but if nobody bought them then, I highly doubt anybody would buy a manual Forester XT now, especially with manuals becoming less and less popular.
It was mechanically identical to the WRX which came in wagon form and had nearly the same cargo capacity as the Forester. It's no wonder the XT + manual didn't sell well given the competitor sitting next to it on the lot (don't forget the Legacy GT wagon & Outback XT as well).

The new WRX is not going to be available as a hatch... so a high performance Forester with a manual would sell considerably better than before.
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Old 05-13-2013, 01:31 PM   #3145
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It was mechanically identical to the WRX which came in wagon form and had nearly the same cargo capacity as the Forester. It's no wonder the XT + manual didn't sell well given the competitor sitting next to it on the lot (don't forget the Legacy GT wagon & Outback XT as well).

The new WRX is not going to be available as a hatch... so a high performance Forester with a manual would sell considerably better than before.
I would bet the take rate would be higher too than the current manual base 2.5i Forester. The only reason I see the 2.5i MT still being an option is marketing the Forester at the lowest MSRP possible, but how many actually buy? It no longer offers any mpg advantages over auto/cvt variations.

How would the take rate change or increase if Subaru dropped the 2.5i MT and opted for a "performance" Forester 2.0DIT with a MT? My guess it might increase because there is nothing else like it in the market.

Also, the old Forester XT MT didn't sell because not too many people knew about it or didn't acknowledge the Forester because it was smaller and unconventional in terms of other small SUVs on the market at the time. The SH Forester changed that image for Subaru and is actually on par with competitors. The landscape has changed a lot for Subaru in terms of public acknowledgement.

Last edited by subyski; 05-13-2013 at 01:37 PM.
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Old 05-13-2013, 06:33 PM   #3146
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Because the take rate of sporty CUVs is just so lowwwwww.

Not like there is an Explorer twin turbo.

Or a Range Rover Evoque or Range Rover Sport, which are somewhat redundant with the less sporty Land Rovers that each are based on...

Or an SRT Jeep Grand Cherokee.

Not like there isn't a HOLE in the compact CUV segment that a sporty CUV could fill, if it could actually be sportier than RAV4 V6, or Mazda CX5, with real hardware upgrades.

The reasons above why FXT-5MT not competing with WRX or WRX STI, and Outback XT Limited, are valid.

Most of those are gone or going.

And a manual gearbox as part of a larger encompassing sport package, with big brakes, STI aluminum suspension arms, STI drivetrain (which, with 3 limited slip diffs, and a robust transaxle, might actually be surprisingly good off road with some ride height and suspension articulation)

And a visual package that actually makes it look the part of being a special model, (unlike Legacy GT and Spec.B which looked like 2.5i models, with a scoop and +1 or +2 wheels) it might actually be compelling.

The only ones calling for manual gearboxes anymore are enthusiasts. Economy buyers aren't even asking much for them anymore...

but imagine taking a 6-speed option away from a WRX STI buyer, and leaving them with a CVT only.

IF WRX STI is going to be sedan only Forester has yet another opportunity to step into that gap, as the 5-door goes away, just as it had the opportunity to become more sophisticated when Outback XT went away, but it didn't really capitalize on it.

Forester XTI, with real credibility, not just a lip-service hollow weaksauce effort, even as a 500-1000 unit special model, like Spec.B was, would generate some excitement, along side of, not instead of WRX STI.
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Old 05-13-2013, 08:01 PM   #3147
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Subaru wouldn't make a dime on them, even at $45K. In fact they'd lose big on each one with the R&D, tooling etc. So it would be an expensive, sacrificial stunt by a company that doesn't need to do it. Lets all convince Subaru they need to lose a lot of money.
It's not an SRT. It doesn't have the same buyers. And the people that would want it, couldn't afford it. And they'd still bitch n moan about it.
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Old 05-14-2013, 12:22 AM   #3148
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It doesn't have to be this $45k STI padded Forester. Sure at that price, it would be a lost cause. I think a 5 or 6MT option in the current 2.0DIT would fit the bill quite nicely, especially if a turbo hatch is not offered and they are going to develop the new WRX drivetrain. I can't believe the profit margin is huge for the STI anyways nor the XV mild hybrid. But it's done for reputation and marketing.

Last edited by subyski; 05-14-2013 at 12:29 AM.
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Old 05-14-2013, 01:15 AM   #3149
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It doesn't have to be this $45k STI padded Forester. Sure at that price, it would be a lost cause. I think a 5 or 6MT option in the current 2.0DIT would fit the bill quite nicely, especially if a turbo hatch is not offered and they are going to develop the new WRX drivetrain. I can't believe the profit margin is huge for the STI anyways nor the XV mild hybrid. But it's done for reputation and marketing.
They know, at the moment, they can't compete with Ford, Toyota, and Volkswagen when it comes to sheer numbers. They have to at least have something to differentiate them from the competition. Besides AWD, the STi and WRX is just that. And if Mitsubishi suddenly follows Suzuki and Izuzu, Subaru will be at the top when it comes to inexpensive AWD sports sedan (and hopefully hatch/wagon in the near future) for the USDM.

I'd love to see Toyota Venza sales numbers along with any other wagon sold in the USDM. I want our Outback XT and Legacy GT back =\.
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Old 05-14-2013, 10:16 AM   #3150
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Originally Posted by HipToBeSquare View Post
Interesting anecdotes and ideas.

Still, nobody would buy a new Forester XT with a 5 or 6 speed manual transmission, just as nobody bought Legacy GT wagons with manual transmissions, even though Americans pleaded for them, then never bought them.

It's a dying, or more precisely, a completely dead market and Subaru is aware of this. We only have ourselves to blame.
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