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01-14-2015, 03:38 PM | #1 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 11216
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Denver CO
Vehicle:1991 SS 1998 BG 1996 BD |
At what point do you need more oil flow?
I am opening up my bearing clearances.
Mains to 0.0018"-0.002" Rods to 0.0021"-0.0023" Is a 10mm oil pump still good to use, or do I jump up to a 11mm? I know for stock setups on non-AVCS or single AVCS, the 10mm is the choice. I do not want aerated oil running through the bearings, but I also want sufficient flow through the increased clearances.
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01-14-2015, 07:09 PM | #2 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 212154
Join Date: May 2009
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: fast performance tuning
Vehicle:02 billet crank pauter rods, pt5857, E85 |
Quote:
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01-15-2015, 10:00 AM | #3 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 341477
Join Date: Dec 2012
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Will you be using avcs? When does the pump need upgrading for a more "wild" non avcs build.
And what crank are you using? |
01-15-2015, 10:52 AM | #4 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 11216
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Denver CO
Vehicle:1991 SS 1998 BG 1996 BD |
I'm using all stock ej257 components.
No AVCS, it's a 2.0L/2.5L hybrid. |
01-15-2015, 05:19 PM | #5 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 261696
Join Date: Oct 2010
Chapter/Region:
E. Canada
Location: st johns nl
Vehicle:2004 wrx red |
u want Subaru mains tight to get more oil to rod bearings according to tech works engineering
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01-20-2015, 10:35 AM | #6 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 11216
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Denver CO
Vehicle:1991 SS 1998 BG 1996 BD |
I went with stock spec main clearances and extra 0.001" rod clearances (0.0021"-0.0023").
Right now I'm leaning toward the 11mm oil pump option. |
01-20-2015, 11:25 AM | #7 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 239335
Join Date: Feb 2010
Chapter/Region:
W. Canada
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Vehicle:2011 WRX WRB |
Mains in my experience are tricky to measure and take patience. Temperature needs to be consistent. I would remeasure them after everything has been in the same room for a few hours to equalize. What bearings are you using?
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01-20-2015, 11:31 AM | #8 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 11216
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Denver CO
Vehicle:1991 SS 1998 BG 1996 BD |
ACL race STD for mains
King XPG STDX (+0.001") for rods. All measurements have been taken at room temperature. |
01-20-2015, 11:53 AM | #9 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 124311
Join Date: Aug 2006
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: Knoxville, TN
Vehicle:2006 STi, 03WRX wago 10Tribeca,00 RS,99 Foz |
I know this doesn't answer your original question, but are you taking your measurements with torque plates on the engine? There are a lot of little "tricks" to increase oil flow on these engines. I personally will not just throw an out of the box pump of any size on an engine. The casting is sub-par at best. It takes a little time, but the end result of massaging the block/head oil passages and pump housing is well worth the return imho.
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01-20-2015, 01:00 PM | #10 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 341477
Join Date: Dec 2012
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any links or info on this massaging? Or is it just debur and smoothing and such?
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01-20-2015, 01:08 PM | #11 | |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 409793
Join Date: Dec 2014
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Quote:
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01-20-2015, 01:16 PM | #12 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 124311
Join Date: Aug 2006
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: Knoxville, TN
Vehicle:2006 STi, 03WRX wago 10Tribeca,00 RS,99 Foz |
I do not currently have a write up, but I am putting a block together currently. I will gladly snap some pictures of what I do and post them.
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01-20-2015, 01:21 PM | #13 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 409793
Join Date: Dec 2014
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01-20-2015, 01:25 PM | #14 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 11216
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Denver CO
Vehicle:1991 SS 1998 BG 1996 BD |
No torque plates used for measurements. Brand new crank and new bearings.
The case is used. This is a quick budget build, to suffice as a backup motor while I redesign my built block. I have only had rod bearing problems in the past on this build, so I am trying to design it a little better this time around. Basically I just want to be sure that I have sufficient flow requirements for the increased clearance at the rods. I am unsure how much extra head room is available from the 10mm pump. |
01-20-2015, 02:06 PM | #15 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 124311
Join Date: Aug 2006
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: Knoxville, TN
Vehicle:2006 STi, 03WRX wago 10Tribeca,00 RS,99 Foz |
A 10mm pump with a shim or two and some porting will flow a great deal of oil. Word of advice, check your clearances with torque plates if at all possible. Between myself and my machinist we have seen up to .003 change on the mains with plates.
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01-20-2015, 02:20 PM | #16 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 409793
Join Date: Dec 2014
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Was that with a torque plate on both sides of the block or just one side?
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01-20-2015, 02:39 PM | #17 | |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 11216
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Denver CO
Vehicle:1991 SS 1998 BG 1996 BD |
Quote:
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01-20-2015, 02:45 PM | #18 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 124311
Join Date: Aug 2006
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: Knoxville, TN
Vehicle:2006 STi, 03WRX wago 10Tribeca,00 RS,99 Foz |
Both sides. I know that is going to be tough to do, because most people or machine shops for that matter don't just have ej torque plates laying around, but in my opinion it is necessary on these engines.
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01-20-2015, 03:47 PM | #19 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 167794
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: o-k-l-a-h-o-m-a
Vehicle:08 500+whp sti |
so did you line bore or swap bearing shells? or?
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01-20-2015, 03:49 PM | #20 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 124311
Join Date: Aug 2006
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: Knoxville, TN
Vehicle:2006 STi, 03WRX wago 10Tribeca,00 RS,99 Foz |
My block (s) are machined with plates on both ends and clearance set through line boring. I have had some blocks brought to me that I have had to mix bearing shells to get things right though. My current block is set up that way due to acl having poor qc.
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01-20-2015, 03:57 PM | #21 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 239335
Join Date: Feb 2010
Chapter/Region:
W. Canada
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Vehicle:2011 WRX WRB |
Used case would explain your clearances on your mains. Mains 2 and 4 are known to open up 0.001".
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01-20-2015, 04:01 PM | #22 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 124311
Join Date: Aug 2006
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: Knoxville, TN
Vehicle:2006 STi, 03WRX wago 10Tribeca,00 RS,99 Foz |
If you are speaking of my block, being used has nothing to do with it. Case halves were squares, line bored back to middle of factory spec. Within .0001 of each other. The change occurs when the plates are removed/installed. I can take a new case and measure the bores without plates, then add plates and arp studs. Mains will change .001-.003. I have confirmed this many times with new and used cases.
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01-20-2015, 04:17 PM | #23 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 239335
Join Date: Feb 2010
Chapter/Region:
W. Canada
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Vehicle:2011 WRX WRB |
Quote:
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01-20-2015, 04:18 PM | #24 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 11216
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Denver CO
Vehicle:1991 SS 1998 BG 1996 BD |
When you say the mains change, are they opening an extra 0.001-0.003" as the torque plates are installed?
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01-20-2015, 07:45 PM | #25 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 315868
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Ohio
Vehicle:2006 WRX white/carbon fiber |
Are the case halves torqued
together while adding the plates? Or does it matter? I would think it does. |
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