Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Tuesday March 19, 2024
Home Forums Images WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Built Motor Discussion

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.







* As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. 
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-14-2015, 03:38 PM   #1
maciek
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 11216
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Denver CO
Vehicle:
1991 SS 1998 BG
1996 BD

Default At what point do you need more oil flow?

I am opening up my bearing clearances.

Mains to 0.0018"-0.002"

Rods to 0.0021"-0.0023"

Is a 10mm oil pump still good to use, or do I jump up to a 11mm?

I know for stock setups on non-AVCS or single AVCS, the 10mm is the choice.

I do not want aerated oil running through the bearings, but I also want sufficient flow through the increased clearances.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
maciek is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 01-14-2015, 07:09 PM   #2
fastblueufo
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 212154
Join Date: May 2009
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: fast performance tuning
Vehicle:
02 billet crank
pauter rods, pt5857, E85

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by maciek View Post
I am opening up my bearing clearances.

Mains to 0.0018"-0.002"

Rods to 0.0021"-0.0023"

Is a 10mm oil pump still good to use, or do I jump up to a 11mm?

I know for stock setups on non-AVCS or single AVCS, the 10mm is the choice.

I do not want aerated oil running through the bearings, but I also want sufficient flow through the increased clearances.
Go with a bigger pump
fastblueufo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2015, 10:00 AM   #3
rowleym
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 341477
Join Date: Dec 2012
Default

Will you be using avcs? When does the pump need upgrading for a more "wild" non avcs build.

And what crank are you using?
rowleym is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2015, 10:52 AM   #4
maciek
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 11216
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Denver CO
Vehicle:
1991 SS 1998 BG
1996 BD

Default

I'm using all stock ej257 components.

No AVCS, it's a 2.0L/2.5L hybrid.
maciek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2015, 05:19 PM   #5
mopar3.0
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 261696
Join Date: Oct 2010
Chapter/Region: E. Canada
Location: st johns nl
Vehicle:
2004 wrx
red

Default

u want Subaru mains tight to get more oil to rod bearings according to tech works engineering
mopar3.0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2015, 10:35 AM   #6
maciek
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 11216
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Denver CO
Vehicle:
1991 SS 1998 BG
1996 BD

Default

I went with stock spec main clearances and extra 0.001" rod clearances (0.0021"-0.0023").

Right now I'm leaning toward the 11mm oil pump option.
maciek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2015, 11:25 AM   #7
Delphi
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 239335
Join Date: Feb 2010
Chapter/Region: W. Canada
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Vehicle:
2011 WRX
WRB

Default

Mains in my experience are tricky to measure and take patience. Temperature needs to be consistent. I would remeasure them after everything has been in the same room for a few hours to equalize. What bearings are you using?
Delphi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2015, 11:31 AM   #8
maciek
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 11216
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Denver CO
Vehicle:
1991 SS 1998 BG
1996 BD

Default

ACL race STD for mains

King XPG STDX (+0.001") for rods.

All measurements have been taken at room temperature.
maciek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2015, 11:53 AM   #9
2006whitesti
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 124311
Join Date: Aug 2006
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Knoxville, TN
Vehicle:
2006 STi, 03WRX wago
10Tribeca,00 RS,99 Foz

Default

I know this doesn't answer your original question, but are you taking your measurements with torque plates on the engine? There are a lot of little "tricks" to increase oil flow on these engines. I personally will not just throw an out of the box pump of any size on an engine. The casting is sub-par at best. It takes a little time, but the end result of massaging the block/head oil passages and pump housing is well worth the return imho.
2006whitesti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2015, 01:00 PM   #10
rowleym
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 341477
Join Date: Dec 2012
Default

any links or info on this massaging? Or is it just debur and smoothing and such?
rowleym is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2015, 01:08 PM   #11
ghulands
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 409793
Join Date: Dec 2014
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2006whitesti View Post
I know this doesn't answer your original question, but are you taking your measurements with torque plates on the engine? There are a lot of little "tricks" to increase oil flow on these engines. I personally will not just throw an out of the box pump of any size on an engine. The casting is sub-par at best. It takes a little time, but the end result of massaging the block/head oil passages and pump housing is well worth the return imho.
Any chance you have a write-up on what you did?
ghulands is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2015, 01:16 PM   #12
2006whitesti
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 124311
Join Date: Aug 2006
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Knoxville, TN
Vehicle:
2006 STi, 03WRX wago
10Tribeca,00 RS,99 Foz

Default

I do not currently have a write up, but I am putting a block together currently. I will gladly snap some pictures of what I do and post them.
2006whitesti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2015, 01:21 PM   #13
ghulands
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 409793
Join Date: Dec 2014
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2006whitesti View Post
I do not currently have a write up, but I am putting a block together currently. I will gladly snap some pictures of what I do and post them.
That'd be great to see.
ghulands is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2015, 01:25 PM   #14
maciek
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 11216
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Denver CO
Vehicle:
1991 SS 1998 BG
1996 BD

Default

No torque plates used for measurements. Brand new crank and new bearings.
The case is used. This is a quick budget build, to suffice as a backup motor while I redesign my built block.

I have only had rod bearing problems in the past on this build, so I am trying to design it a little better this time around. Basically I just want to be sure that I have sufficient flow requirements for the increased clearance at the rods.

I am unsure how much extra head room is available from the 10mm pump.
maciek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2015, 02:06 PM   #15
2006whitesti
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 124311
Join Date: Aug 2006
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Knoxville, TN
Vehicle:
2006 STi, 03WRX wago
10Tribeca,00 RS,99 Foz

Default

A 10mm pump with a shim or two and some porting will flow a great deal of oil. Word of advice, check your clearances with torque plates if at all possible. Between myself and my machinist we have seen up to .003 change on the mains with plates.
2006whitesti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2015, 02:20 PM   #16
ghulands
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 409793
Join Date: Dec 2014
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2006whitesti View Post
A 10mm pump with a shim or two and some porting will flow a great deal of oil. Word of advice, check your clearances with torque plates if at all possible. Between myself and my machinist we have seen up to .003 change on the mains with plates.
Was that with a torque plate on both sides of the block or just one side?
ghulands is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2015, 02:39 PM   #17
maciek
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 11216
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Denver CO
Vehicle:
1991 SS 1998 BG
1996 BD

Default

Quote:
Word of advice, check your clearances with torque plates if at all possible. Between myself and my machinist we have seen up to .003 change on the mains with plates.
Thank you, will do.
maciek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2015, 02:45 PM   #18
2006whitesti
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 124311
Join Date: Aug 2006
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Knoxville, TN
Vehicle:
2006 STi, 03WRX wago
10Tribeca,00 RS,99 Foz

Default

Both sides. I know that is going to be tough to do, because most people or machine shops for that matter don't just have ej torque plates laying around, but in my opinion it is necessary on these engines.

Sent from my SCH-R530U using NASIOC mobile app
2006whitesti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2015, 03:47 PM   #19
tomtom84
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 167794
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: o-k-l-a-h-o-m-a
Vehicle:
08 500+whp sti

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2006whitesti View Post
A 10mm pump with a shim or two and some porting will flow a great deal of oil. Word of advice, check your clearances with torque plates if at all possible. Between myself and my machinist we have seen up to .003 change on the mains with plates.
so did you line bore or swap bearing shells? or?
tomtom84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2015, 03:49 PM   #20
2006whitesti
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 124311
Join Date: Aug 2006
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Knoxville, TN
Vehicle:
2006 STi, 03WRX wago
10Tribeca,00 RS,99 Foz

Default

My block (s) are machined with plates on both ends and clearance set through line boring. I have had some blocks brought to me that I have had to mix bearing shells to get things right though. My current block is set up that way due to acl having poor qc.

Sent from my SCH-R530U using NASIOC mobile app
2006whitesti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2015, 03:57 PM   #21
Delphi
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 239335
Join Date: Feb 2010
Chapter/Region: W. Canada
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Vehicle:
2011 WRX
WRB

Default

Used case would explain your clearances on your mains. Mains 2 and 4 are known to open up 0.001".
Delphi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2015, 04:01 PM   #22
2006whitesti
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 124311
Join Date: Aug 2006
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Knoxville, TN
Vehicle:
2006 STi, 03WRX wago
10Tribeca,00 RS,99 Foz

Default

If you are speaking of my block, being used has nothing to do with it. Case halves were squares, line bored back to middle of factory spec. Within .0001 of each other. The change occurs when the plates are removed/installed. I can take a new case and measure the bores without plates, then add plates and arp studs. Mains will change .001-.003. I have confirmed this many times with new and used cases.

Sent from my SCH-R530U using NASIOC mobile app
2006whitesti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2015, 04:17 PM   #23
Delphi
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 239335
Join Date: Feb 2010
Chapter/Region: W. Canada
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Vehicle:
2011 WRX
WRB

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2006whitesti View Post
If you are speaking of my block, being used has nothing to do with it. Case halves were squares, line bored back to middle of factory spec. Within .0001 of each other. The change occurs when the plates are removed/installed. I can take a new case and measure the bores without plates, then add plates and arp studs. Mains will change .001-.003. I have confirmed this many times with new and used cases.

Sent from my SCH-R530U using NASIOC mobile app
I was talking about OP's case being used.
Delphi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2015, 04:18 PM   #24
maciek
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 11216
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Denver CO
Vehicle:
1991 SS 1998 BG
1996 BD

Default

When you say the mains change, are they opening an extra 0.001-0.003" as the torque plates are installed?
maciek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2015, 07:45 PM   #25
joegamma1
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 315868
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Ohio
Vehicle:
2006 WRX
white/carbon fiber

Default

Are the case halves torqued
together while adding the plates? Or does it matter?
I would think it does.
joegamma1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:56 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2024 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2019, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.

As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.

When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission
Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.