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Old 06-28-2000, 05:15 PM   #26
Mizen
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Oh, I think that in general all of us here give much props to the Honda folks for their excellent engineering.

Sure there is a bit of that competative edge and 'I can get you...' attitude but this board is very respectful of other ride owners... I can not say this of every other board I've been to... it's very easy to get flamed quick on alot of honda boards if you say you have a subaru...

and god... don't even go to one of the big V8 type boards... the ignorance/racism makes you want to puke...

-my buddy wants an SI and I hope he gets it, it's a tight car IMHO...
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Old 06-28-2000, 05:16 PM   #27
Gvtec
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Matt Monson: I don't think the extra power is found in the LS(non-vtec) over the GSR (vtec) with such little extra displacement.

One of the main problems with the LS/Vtec, a.k.a Frankenstein eninge, conversion is that the Vtec head while mated on a LS block raises compression to about 11.7:1! A lot of these conversions fail due to detonation and oil leaks. There are ways to correct the compression, but many swapers jump into the LS/Vtec without doing the math.


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Old 06-28-2000, 06:56 PM   #28
Kevin Thomas
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Lightbulb

Since some of you are on the subject of 14" wheels, what is the lightest 14" wheel that I can put on an OBS with 15" wheels stock?

I asked a few people about this before and got some answers but I am still curious. Just switching from 15" to 14" wheels in the Cartest program I use lowered the 1/4 mile time from 15.2 to 14.9 and mph went up from 92 to 94. Not bad at all!

Now where are those stock Honda DX wheels?
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Old 06-28-2000, 08:14 PM   #29
AKGC8
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About Wheels

Unless you are only going for drag racing, don't go for small wheels. You can get very light large wheels, lighter than most 14's(example Racing Hart CP-035, 16x7, 9.25 lbs including lug nuts). With a light large wheel you will benefit from less unsprung weight and smaller stiffer sidewall tires, better acceleration and handling(only downside is a harsher ride).

There are a lot of people who get small wheels and low pro tires because they want to get better acceleration, these people don't know the slightest thing about tuning. Sure mathematically a smaller circumference accelerates faster, but on a car that will also greatly decrease your top end and traction. The guys who know what they are doing will get the smallest rims they can with special drag tires with large sidewalls. This is because if you were going to get a small rim with a small tire, there would be no flex in the tire and you'd just spin your tires off the line. With the special drag tires with large sidewall, they are made to flex and flatten out to put a larger rubber patch on the road(yes they do make tires like that for road cars as well as pro dragsters). With this setup you will keep about the same overall circumference, and still have a good top end.
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Old 06-28-2000, 10:51 PM   #30
MrSube2pt5
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I'm certainly not trying to stir up a giant debate but here are my $0.02 - I'm sorry but I don't give much credit to Hondas. In my opinion they are over-rated. Of course managing 100 hp per liter is impressive but still..Slapping Vtech stickers and bagdes over every product says something about their ingenuity (or lack thereof), especially since several German engineers were using variable valve timing when Honda was making tanks during WWII. Toyota's VVTl-i is much more sophisticated in contrast to Vtech anyways.
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Old 06-28-2000, 10:58 PM   #31
ImprezaRS dot com
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I'm gonna remove my 2.5RS badge, rear wing, and change out the front air dam to look like an Impreza L coupe...

Larry

PS: Nahhhh
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Old 06-29-2000, 12:36 AM   #32
AKGC8
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MrSube2pt5

Sure the Toyota VVTL-i is more advanced than VTEC, but its not exactly better. The VVTL-i is baisically the same as VTEC, the difference being constant adjustment of timming, fuel, and air on the intake valves only. BMW's double VANOS is probably the most advanced system right now because like Toyota it varies the timming, fuel, and air over the whole rev range, but it does it on both intake and exhaust. Toyota and BMW do not vary the size of the cam lobes over the entire rev range. Like Honda they have two lobe profiles with Toyota's change point set to 6000rpms(Honda's varies per vehicle). Honda is currently developing a system to debut soon that will reset the standard with 3 cam lobe profiles.

I prefer the Honda engines. They still have higher redlines than both Toyota or BMW. You have to have a high redline to make the most of different cam profiles. I don't think VVTL-I makes very good use of the higher cam lobe with it kicking in a 6000rpms and a redline at 7600rpms. Thats only 1600rpms of high cam lobe fun, while the average honda has over 3000rpms. Also while the VVTL-i may be more advanced, it doesn't outperform VTEC. The GTS produces 180hp and 130ft lbs of torque, while the ITR produces 195hp and 130ft lbs of torque from the same displacement.
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Old 06-29-2000, 12:56 AM   #33
AlphaDog
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OK, I have been reading here for a couple of days, pretty much because my best friend is getting an Impreza soon. I figure good enough for him, good enough for me. Now about myself....

I am what you people call a Hon-Duh lover (owner FBP 99 Si). So I gotta say, I'm a little disappointed that a lot of you guys don't seem to give other cars (even Hondas) their props. But, since I like Imprezas (see, you can like more than one car), I thought I'd volunteer to be the board's resident Honda Expert/Person. Now let me explain the whole 14" wheel question on an Si...

As you know, for smaller displacement cars, weight management is key. Lower your weight = putting that little engine to better use. There are many ways to get rid of weight, the most important being "unsprung" weight. This is weight not carried by the shocks/springs/frame, but rather directly on the wheels. The best way to kill unpsrung weight is to get lighter wheels. So, there are MANY Si owners (and others to) that like very much to downsize their wheels to save weight and make more power (also helping with the sleeper look which can give you an advantage also). Hope this helps.

BTW - Even Honda owners chastise rice boys who turn their paint jobs into sticker billboards.
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Old 06-29-2000, 09:57 AM   #34
Matt Monson
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Post

AlphaDog,
14"DX steel wheels: 18lbs
15"Si Alloys: 16lbs
14"HX 92-95 alloys: 11.7 lbs
I have no idea what Enkei's you are talking about.

The HX's are what I run on my '87 civic. But that was an upsize(w/weight savings) over the fatory steel 13's
GVTEC,
Yeah, you are right, some people have blown LS/Vtecs, but if done right it is a very powerful package. The smart tuners aren't having that many problems, but then this usually isn't their first engine swap or first experience w/Honda Mad scientistry.
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Old 07-03-2000, 02:08 AM   #35
fast si
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all honda rims(not steel wheels) are manufactured by Enkei. Alphadog was referring to the optional split spoke five stars that are available for the Si(and other civics). the stockers are much better looking in my opinion(that's why i have them).

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Old 07-03-2000, 04:05 AM   #36
ndmorespd
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BRP

Exclamation

Just a quicky note to go back to the misplaced stickers on cars they just don't belong on...

There are quite a few people of Slavic descent in Northern California, they run many of the local chop shops for imports... It's so obvious, you drive by and there are at least 6 or 7 cars in each little shop... Anyway they are doing the old buy crap car and steal for the parts to fix it, and usually don't do the best of jobs.... (now my point) i.e.: the punk driving (of all things, they normally dive at Hon-Duhs) a 98/99 Impreza L!!! Each fender was individually primered a different color and the bumpers were both plastic black... I started to laugh, until I looked on the trunk and right nest to the Impreza label I see a Hon-Duh "EX" Sticker?!?!?!?! I guess they really do make them faster!!!

Mike
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Old 07-04-2000, 06:46 AM   #37
Ragstylz
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hon-duhs are like belly buttons...every one has one and they're useless!
Don't mean to be rude, but it's true, it's true...there's a civic in every driveway out there (even my sis has one). It may be a good car(in some peoples eyes) but be a little different. That's what I love about the RS, it's not that common on the road. If I pass by one, I flash 'em in mine and i get a complimentary wave back.
But one thing about hon-duhs, the VTEC engine, that's a nice lil invention they got going on there.
I used to go to school at Rutgers, NJ. Man, the riced out hon-duhs just annoyed the hell out of me. With the japanese character stickers that they didn't even know what they meant, probably like "combo #5" or something.

And I know someone posted that sube owners don't like other cars. Not true...my girlfriend has a jetta and I like that car. I would even go as far as to say I wouldn't mind driving a Chrysler 300M, maybe in a couple of years though.
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Old 07-04-2000, 08:03 AM   #38
Bassem
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Hey Gambit,

my buddy got a dx hatch with the only mod being a set of 16" OZ SuperT wheels and p-zeros. That car is sick in terms of ultimate grip, but man do you have to keep that engine on full boil to pull out of a turn. But then agian with the 2450lb weight, and P-zero tires, you can actually afford to have your engine up there in the turn without worrying abot breaking the front tires loose.

Funny how you saw the same thing in trono . I think that's the way to go with cars anyway, handling first, then power...now, does anyone know where I can get an ITR engine cheap

Bassem
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Old 07-04-2000, 10:32 AM   #39
Gambit
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Those civics are what I respect and would give a second glance. But not some stupid 15lb tip plus 17" chrome wheels on a DX hatch. Oh don;t forget teh clear rear lights. I noticed the only time to see nicely done up civics are at autoX where performance is more important than "cheap cologne and fry chicken" decorations.
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Old 07-04-2000, 10:32 AM   #40
Eric Gagnon
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i actually have respect for the Honda Si's.. I got beat by 2 late 80's CRX's this weekend and 2 late 80's early 90' Civic hatchback si's at the auto-x. Granted they were gutted, had roll cages, and race rubber. But they were fast and handled great those hybrid angines are sweet. Sometimes i wish i had a car i could just gut and race..

Eric
- I have a cool looking, but slow RS.
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Old 07-05-2000, 11:42 AM   #41
Jeff 2.5RS
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I don't mind Honduh's on the road stock what annoys me is people but the lowest model civic (hx?) add an intake, this far tip exhaust thing, and about 50 pounds worth of stickers and expect it to be fast...err sorry if you want a fast civic but an Si or get a new engine. All the civics below the Si are economy cars I wish civic owners could figure that out.
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Old 07-05-2000, 01:02 PM   #42
AlphaDog
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That's funny, I was just going to say that same thing.

When I first joined this board a few days ago, I stated that for the most part, members of this board seemed fair, and true car enthusiasts. Not ragging one car or owner unfairly, and not elevating the RS to mythical expectations that no automobile could meet. Alas, I was wrong. It seems that most everyone on this board believes Subaru Imprezas to be the car of choice of God himself. Get real people. The only reason you don't see as many rice RSs is because there aren't that many around. If there were, I promise you the ricers among you would show themselves. Too bad...I like Imprezas. Apparently its just their owners who have attitudes (and attention envy).

:?(

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Old 07-06-2000, 12:17 AM   #43
iceinject
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like the hyundai elantra i see all the time
with a HUGE GTR type wing, and a dual
3" piped exhaust (who makes this atrocity?)
Wonder if he knows that he has managed to make his car even slower now. He/she drives it like it's a damn ducati, weaving and
gunning it at every light. Yes, please add
50 more pounds and remove some of my low rpm power please...here's your 500 bucks.
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Old 07-06-2000, 12:38 AM   #44
Bahumut
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YOu guys are funny. But realize that they're probably talking the same **** on us too! Not all hondas are rice, but almost all RS's are factory rice! (non functional hoodscoop and vents). I don't know what's worse... Rice by choice or by default.

I'd rather spend $20 on stickers to get rice versus $4000 to get RID of rice (add a turbo).. Just my $.02 about making fun of the Honda boys.
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