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06-27-2012, 01:01 AM | #451 |
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I find this thread to be very interesting.
I learned in school studying different braking systems that the increased surface area of larger brakes did in fact change the speed in which the rotors hit zero. Which should logically reduce stopping distances. But if what the op suggests is true then I appear to be very mistaken. I suppose it makes sense as you can lock up any wheel with any brake system with a simple press of the pedal. However, I cant help but wonder if there is some high end speed (say like 200mph) where the single pot caliper would fall off and not stop the disk. All logic would say that at some speed the friction of the brake pads will not stop the rotors. I will say that for daily driving I would agree the size makes no difference. And I looked up some statistics for stopping distances. and as the op said I found the sti did have slightly shorter stopping distances. And if the op is correct it is due to the tires. So if anything, a 2.5i with the sti tires will stop the same. I'd really like to see that tested.
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Last edited by A.childress; 06-27-2012 at 01:09 AM. |
07-06-2012, 04:12 AM | #452 |
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Now my question to all of y'all which tire is absolutely hands down the best tire for say south Texas, a good all weather tire that will last but still help with retaining traction.
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07-10-2012, 03:15 PM | #453 |
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Helpful
That was super helpful thank you!
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07-12-2012, 02:26 PM | #454 |
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very nice wright up......
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07-12-2012, 04:53 PM | #455 | |
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07-16-2012, 02:15 AM | #456 |
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kwadwo 05 wrx
So much bad info still out here. It is refreshing to hear the truth on this brake subject.This article will save me money , but more important it will save me from being ignorant about my car. I would like more info like this regarding other aspects of the wrx,s performance , what makes sense & what is a waste of money.
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07-19-2012, 11:56 PM | #457 |
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You know in my mind if I attempt to think about it...the break upgrades make sense. BUT after reading this post and thinking about it logically...I can see that my mind lies.
Awesome post. |
07-20-2012, 12:17 AM | #458 | |
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07-20-2012, 03:22 PM | #459 |
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wheels/tires?
whats the widest rim you can go on an 02 wrx? will 18s affect my suspension if i put tein lowering springs on it? just got my subaru so im just getting into all this
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07-20-2012, 06:02 PM | #460 |
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^ this is NOT the place for this question...tire and wheel forum would be better...OR BETTER YET, there are plenty of threads already done with this info about what wheel and tire setup work on what car.
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07-30-2012, 03:08 PM | #461 |
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Hmm, can't believe there's still debate on this thread. Oh wait, yes I can, because people who will never drive their cars in anger want an excuse for bling.
I still want upgraded calipers and rotors, but that's more because I like a stiffer pedal and because I want them than for any *good* reason. |
08-05-2012, 01:50 PM | #462 |
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funny, yet informative rant/post
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08-05-2012, 02:34 PM | #463 |
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Knowledge.
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08-17-2012, 09:49 AM | #464 | |
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Upgrading them because you added power and think that in a panic stop they will stop you any sooner, isn't So you wanting them because you want a firmer pedal, the first thing I would tell you to do is lines and a fluid flush. Damn near every car on the road, even a lot of the new ones from a dealer, could use a good bleed. If you can't do lines RIGHT NOW, call a buddy to come help you do a good bleed in the next couple days. You may find that your pedal gets better from just that. Which means you can enjoy a firmer (at least firmer than it is now) sooner, rather than later. Then do lines when you get the funds. But the biggest thing that will firm up your pedal will be fixed mount front calipers. The cheapest way to get that would be the front calipers from an 06-07 WRX. That plus lines and a good flush will give you a pedal like the STI has. (speaking from experience there) But it wont stop you any shorter |
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08-17-2012, 09:52 AM | #465 |
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Guys also keep in mind, this whole post, mostly relates to the 99% of people who will never track their car. This means pretty much all of you.
99% of people, the only time stopping distance will come into play, is in a panic stop. Their brakes will be nowhere near the fade temperature, so the brakes will be completely capable of locking the wheels, which means the stopping distance will only be affected by how much force the tire can put on the ground before it locks. Which means, you need a stickier tire, to stop in a shorter distance. For those rare people who WILL be tracking their car, pads and fluid are all they will ever need most likely. Some of those people would benefit from a slightly larger front rotor/caliper combo. But most definitely NOT from something huge like almost every BBK on the market. Those will only make you slower around a race track, not faster. There is a point where bigger becomes too big, and you are just adding weight and rotational mass. The BBK "Gran Turismo" kit is a perfect example of this. Its HUGE and heavy and will in no circumstance outperform the stock STI brakes. But because it is so much larger, it WILL however, suck up power, and make you handle worse. How much worse and how much slower, well if you arent racing, then not enough to matter. So if you want the bling (and that kit DOES look insanely good), and aren't in a situation where lap times matter, go for it. But for almost every driver on nasioc, who will never track their car, you need tires. Not brakes. |
08-17-2012, 10:30 AM | #466 | |
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If there were no benefit to running a larger BBK, then why does nearly every time attack STi run one? Why do all of the other STi race teams run them? Because they are better. Last edited by LIQUIDSK8S; 08-17-2012 at 12:59 PM. |
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08-20-2012, 11:14 AM | #467 | |
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Its like you didn't read anything I had to say. Please enlighten me as to where exactly you missed the part where I INCREDIBLY, VERY CLEARLY, IN A MANNER OF WHICH SOMEONE OF A 3RD GRADE READING LEVEL, stated, that all of this is directed at people who aren't professional type, driving a dedicated race car, sort of driver. Which is what virtually everyone on nasioc is not. Including yourself. None of what I am saying are guesses or statements coming from someone who doesn't know what he is talking about. I have done this for a living and as a hobby for over 20 years here. There is also a post somewhere in this thread with the hard data from testing with lap times, proving beyond shadow of a doubt, that upgraded brakes doing exactly nothing for lap times on an autocross car(and autocross more directly relates to the sort of driving almost everyone here will ever do). As for track days, for almost everyone, pads that can take more heat and fluid are all you need even on R-compounds, unless you A. Suck at driving (and on a race track, most of us do, even if we think we dont) or B. Have a brake system that has problems to begin with (in which case, you need to REPAIR, not upgrade) However, the reality is that only about 1% of nasioc will ever do a track day. And the Brembo Gran Turismo kit weighs almost double the STI brembos. (ok not almost double, but a lot more) Have you held them both in your hands back to back, both on the same bench? I have. The Gran Turismo kit is INSANELY heavy. You also clearly don't understand rotational mass. A couple lbs isnt much. A couple lbs rotating at speed, starts to become a lot more. In any case, go re-read everything you missed. Which seems to be almost everything that has been said. And for the record the Brembo kit on that time attack car is a lot lighter than the Gran Turismo Brembo setup. But hey, you know everything, so you already knew that right? Last edited by Davenow; 08-20-2012 at 11:24 AM. |
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08-20-2012, 11:23 AM | #468 | |
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What he said. Every bit of it. Every single word of it. |
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08-20-2012, 12:30 PM | #469 | |||||
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Wow..... where to start. I guess I'll start by commenting on your incredibly childish/immature response. It appears I'm not the one who needs to improve their reading comprehension. Next let's move on to this comment right here "Those will only make you slower around a race track, not faster. There is a point where bigger becomes too big, and you are just adding weight and rotational mass. The BBK "Gran Turismo" kit is a perfect example of this. Its HUGE and heavy and will in no circumstance outperform the stock STI brakes." This is the comment I was replying to, and how it is completely false. This comment was a blanket statement, you did not preface it as being aimed at everyone but dedicated track cars. And even then, you said "in no circumstance", which is false. You then make a assumption as to my driving, of which you have no clue. I hold a FIA Grade C license, so I know what I'm talking about. My family has been racing Porsches for over 30yrs and ranging from the 962, 908, 934.5, 944, Nissan 8803 (P Car) and the list goes on and on and on. At what point did I mention lap times??? How about never. But since we are on the topic, with wide/sticky enough tires you will see marginally better lap times with a BBK due to extra stopping power, provided that the wider slicks have enough grip that the stock brakes cannot achieve lock up. But the stock brembos with the right pads, SHOULD be able to lockup 99% of situations, if not all. BUT what I DID say, was that in a actual race the BBK kit would be needed as it will resist fade longer than the stock Brembos. That's a fact. Quote:
Quote:
Car and driver did a test with a WRX a few years back, and multiple brake kits ranging from stock/stock with rotors pads/prodrive brakes/ F50 kit etc. From 70 mph the braking difference was slightly in the F50 kits favor (the largest of the group), but as the speeds increased to 100mph, the F50 kit stopped 15-20ft shorter on average. That is huge on the track. Now take the speed up to 150+...... the gap becomes even larger. Quote:
I agreed with pretty much everything in your post, apart from what I quoted. You completely missed the point of my post and ran off on some incoherent tangent that had nothing to do with my post, congrats! Quote:
But hey, how about we mention all of the time attack cars on the forum. The LIC car? Uses the regular Brembo 6pot kit, which weighs more than the F50 kit. We could go on and on, the reality is you're wrong and cant handle it. I gave you credit before in that your OP applies to 99% of the people on here not needing larger brakes. I was only pointing out your mistake in one specific area regarding the benefit of a BBK for the other 1%. Last edited by LIQUIDSK8S; 08-20-2012 at 03:13 PM. |
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08-24-2012, 04:23 AM | #470 |
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Re: Thread
I always thought differently, but I AM a total NEWBIE to the tuning/moidding scene. thanks for all the clarifications listed here. I appreciate the knowledge being dropped on me
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08-24-2012, 03:08 PM | #471 |
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Completely agree with this post
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08-27-2012, 01:39 PM | #472 |
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New to site, very impressed with good information here. Thanks.
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08-27-2012, 02:59 PM | #473 |
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C/N:
Bigger brakes won't improve stopping distance on a street car. Bigger brakes are able to deal with heavy use on the track where normal brakes would overheat and either cause pad fade or boil fluid. the end |
09-07-2012, 06:10 PM | #474 |
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good thread, thanks.
also another good read, more on the subject of fade: http://www.caranddriver.com/features...-fading-brakes from this article "Our objective here was primarily to test brake fade, not stopping distances. Assuming a brake system is properly balanced, strong enough to lock a wheel, and not yet hot enough to fade, the stopping distance is largely a function of tire traction, not brakes. Think of it this way: All brake systems, stock and aftermarket, are able to activate the ABS, so how could a stronger brake shorten a stop? Eric Dahl, a brake engineer from Brembo, put it this way: "Don't expect the brake kits to stop you sooner, but expect the 20th lap to feel like the first." |
09-17-2012, 03:37 PM | #475 | |
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