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03-08-2014, 03:21 PM | #1 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 230039
Join Date: Nov 2009
Chapter/Region:
RMIC
Vehicle:94 Miata come at me bruh |
Rebuilt: Won't start. spark, air and only part fuel...
My Rebuilt motor won't start. while I await for a Subaru select monitor ( in hopes it'll help), maybe someone here might have an idea as to why.
2004 Subaru Forester Xt, 5 speed. (All parts are stock and from the old motor unless otherwise listed) Specs: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Brand new EJ255 Shortblock from subaru. Fully rebuilt, machined, lashed etc... heads. Subaru master gasket kit. Arp head studs. Walbro 255lph Sti uppipe (05') with EGT Resistor mod done. Newish, front oxygen sensor ( like 5 k miles and clean) Vf39 08' Sti intercooler. Grimmspeed Ecbs Flow tested and cleaned stock yellow top injectors ( all even and near 550cc) Gates racing timing belt kit. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Here Is what I have: Timing done correctly. Air. ( maf was working previously, is cleaned, and isn't throwing a code) Spark on all 4. injector noid light on all 4. Fuel pressure on "in line" (43 psi) (correct) Fuel coming out on "return" line. Crank position sensor shows correct spec resistance. No Engine codes (at least a simple obd II can read.) Upon sitting for a bit, first turn, it'll chug twice or maybe thrice, then dead. After this it won't chug other than the car turning over from the starter. When I pull the plugs only the plugs on 1 and 2 have fuel on them and smell of gas. Plugs 3 and 4 are both dry and don't smell of fuel. Again the noid light test confirms the ecu is sending the signal and the injectors were flow tested. It's possible the shop that tested the injectors broke them and didn't tell me. I've checked resistance and voltage on the injector harnesses and crank position sensor, all within spec. I'm pretty stumped at this point, why would I get fuel on cylinders 1 and 2 only? for reference : Driver side 2 -- 1 Pass side. ...............4 -- 3 Firewall. Any ideas? thanks in advance. TL: DR I only have fuel on cylinders 1 and 2, everything else checks out. what's up?
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03-08-2014, 05:57 PM | #2 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 358782
Join Date: Jun 2013
Chapter/Region:
MWSOC
Location: Springfield, Illinois
Vehicle:2013 STi DGM |
Have you tried swapping the injectors around to see if the problem follows?
If it does you got bad injectors and its time to get some bigger injectors at least you could rule that out. |
03-08-2014, 09:01 PM | #3 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 230039
Join Date: Nov 2009
Chapter/Region:
RMIC
Vehicle:94 Miata come at me bruh |
RazGeiz, I think that's my next step yes.
I'd probly knock down the shop's door that "tested" these... Any other Ideas? Could a main relay or the crank position sensor cause this? (even though they showed the correct resistance, could they still be bad?) |
03-08-2014, 09:36 PM | #4 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 358782
Join Date: Jun 2013
Chapter/Region:
MWSOC
Location: Springfield, Illinois
Vehicle:2013 STi DGM |
To be honest I don't know. I'm still a semi noob when it comes to subies.
Given you checked the circuits for voltage/resistance I would say your issue isn't there. Once you swap the injectors and the problem doesn't follow the injector I would look into making sure fuel can flow thru the rails highly unlikely but could be clogged! |
03-09-2014, 08:10 PM | #5 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 230039
Join Date: Nov 2009
Chapter/Region:
RMIC
Vehicle:94 Miata come at me bruh |
anyone else? Wouldn't it start on 2 cylinders?
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03-09-2014, 09:06 PM | #6 |
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Join Date: Aug 2013
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RMIC
Location: Billings, MT
Vehicle:2003 Impreza WRX Silver |
I second the idea of swapping the injectors around and go from there. Maybe the connectors for the injectors in 3 and 4 are bad?
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03-20-2014, 10:51 PM | #7 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 230039
Join Date: Nov 2009
Chapter/Region:
RMIC
Vehicle:94 Miata come at me bruh |
Well it's been a bit of time as i've been busy but I got around to swapping the injectors last night, fuel was in both injector housings/cylinders etc.. Swapped the injectors of 2-4 only, charged my battery to about 12.7 v and slept on it. The next day ( today) I turned it over and first crank it turned over and ran. Albeit, under 900 rpms and it was chugging rough for a few seconds. About this time I realized i'd just left my PS/AlT belt loose so that was squealing, and about 10 sec. later the idle mellowed out and i turned it off to fix the belt etc...
go back to fire it up and it won't go now. . . . nothing was touched but the alt belt... WTF. p.s. Fuel is getting to all 4 cylinders i'm 75% sure. This is looking more like a spark possible issue even though I showed spark on all 4 awhile back. Two Ideas: Will the battery Voltage affect startup? If the injectors are stuck open, would it start? |
03-20-2014, 10:59 PM | #8 |
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Member#: 316415
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Elk Grove, CA
Vehicle:2006 WRX WRB |
Mmmm...where's the tune?? Same tune prior to blown motor? Before and after flows of these injectors? Possibility of tuner scaling dirty injectors that aren't flowing as much as they are now?
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03-21-2014, 12:11 AM | #9 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 230039
Join Date: Nov 2009
Chapter/Region:
RMIC
Vehicle:94 Miata come at me bruh |
Tune was stock, as was the motor.
Now it's different and yes that'd be something i need a tune for (bigger turbo, IC, DP, and ECBS) but to start it should be fine and it did start once... The injectors were sent off to a local shop to be cleaned and flow tested, I was told i'd get before and after flow charts but when I picked them up they didn't have them on hand and only said it was about 550cc. and all even. Obviously this was a mistake to not get flow charts but they're a reputable shop. Needless to say, i'll be calling them in the morning. . . If anything, these are broken and stuck open flooding the cylinders. |
03-21-2014, 12:12 AM | #10 |
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Vehicle:2002 Impreza WRX Silver |
What was your method for testing for spark?
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03-21-2014, 12:12 AM | #11 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 316415
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Elk Grove, CA
Vehicle:2006 WRX WRB |
Damn... ^^ that would concern me as well.
*the shop not having the paperwork..* |
03-21-2014, 12:30 AM | #12 |
Scooby Specialist
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Join Date: Jun 2010
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MAIC
Location: Pennsylvania
Vehicle:2006 WRX Limited OBP |
If your plugs smell of fuel and are wet, its obviously either an injector problem or you have a wiring issue (a short on the ground side of the circuit) keeping those cylinders injectors stuck open.
Did you try to having someone crank it over with the plugs out on those cylinders and the injectors unplugged to see if theres a bunch of raw fuel built up in those cylinders? |
03-21-2014, 01:03 AM | #13 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 230039
Join Date: Nov 2009
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Vehicle:94 Miata come at me bruh |
First the Lazy way, pulled plugs and coils, put plug threads on the block, cranked, and saw spark.
Then I took Voltage readings from the harness and they were withing spec ( I have the FSM and i've gone though most the troubleshooing steps) Quote:
I did notice in the injector Harness plugs 1 side ( inside the plug) was pushed in further than the other, all of them were like this however so i assumed that was supposed to be like that... hmmm.. I did take voltage/resistance readings from the above. Harness was getting the correct Volts and the injectors are within spec, but i'm not sure if they can be within spec and still mechanically be broken... hmmm... p.s. thanks for all the responses so far! |
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03-21-2014, 02:01 AM | #14 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 250152
Join Date: Jun 2010
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MAIC
Location: Pennsylvania
Vehicle:2006 WRX Limited OBP |
Quote:
Secondly under no circumstances should there be puddled fuel in the injector housing (even if you pull the rail with injectors still attached to them) as injectors "mist" fuel into the cylinder head just prior to the intake valve opening so there never should be a point for fuel to puddle in the housings. The injectors could show to be in "spec" but if there is an intermittent coil issue inside the injector it may not show under pressure but give you all the symptoms you speak of when the pintle is pulsed. Hence the word intermittent The puddled fuel in the injector housing tells me theres a dead short on the ground circuit or the injectors are bad causing you a major headache. Last edited by 2Fast4U1DAY; 03-21-2014 at 07:36 AM. |
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03-21-2014, 02:13 AM | #15 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 230039
Join Date: Nov 2009
Chapter/Region:
RMIC
Vehicle:94 Miata come at me bruh |
thanks, i think you may be right on that and i'll look into both grounds and possible re-testing/replacing of injectors.
on a note, when I say fuel inside, that was from removing the injector(side feed) from the rail and the rail still had some fuel left in it, just enough to coat the walls. as for the ecu grounding bit, a blinking noid light test should mean it's grounding correctly. (tested, it did) |
04-16-2014, 01:23 AM | #16 |
Scooby Specialist
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Join Date: Nov 2009
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RMIC
Vehicle:94 Miata come at me bruh |
I just wanted to follow up on the issue: It's been solved.
The Culprit was the injectors. Even Though they had been "professionally" cleaned and flow tested with good and even flow... I realized I was getting either too much fuel or too little. I had the injectors retested and 3 of 4 were bad. Turns out the shop that had done them had a lot of made up answers involving a 3rd party shop that did the actual testing etc... Long story short: Old injectors were "tested" as good, ( resistance tests were within spec) but they turned out to be bad. New injectors ( used and flow tested/cleaned by another shop) and it fired up first try. thanks for anyone's help who contributed. |
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