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03-26-2010, 02:51 PM | #1 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 242195
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Owen Sound Ontario
Vehicle:2002 WRX Sedan World Rally Blue or whtev |
Tuning questions
So I just got all my gear together for this weekends project. My 02 sedan with about 160 k on it suddenly took a turbo poop a week back and now work is to be done. Got a set of stainless headers, STI ups and downs, tbe, sti top mount, walbro 255 and pink injectors, and of course the new td04turbo out of a stock 'o4 wrx that was wrecked. I have decided to log and map the car myself using the romraider / ecuflash / tactrix set up and I have a couple questions. And FYI I do have a boost gauge and a wideband. I would like the car to be basically "set and forget" once I have installed the new mods (and yes I have already made the base stock ROM image for the stock parts.) So what I would like is a person who is running a similar setup on the 2.0, perhaps with some mapping advice or maps prewritten? Also how advisible is it to data log and for how long before I write new maps to flash the ecu with? Any help is greatly appreciated this forum has been amazing so far for help!
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03-26-2010, 03:32 PM | #2 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 4414
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Dublin, CA
Vehicle:2002 WRX Sedan Midnight Black |
When I did my tuning I first retarded timing a couple degrees in load areas above about 0.9 g/ s. Also richen it 0.2-0.3 in those areas.
Then I played with wastegate duty cycles, target boost and turbo dynamics until the boost curve was exactly how I wanted it. That alone took about a week, where I was re-flashing before work, driving to work logging boost, then adjusting maps at work and re-flashing before I went home. Be sure to also check dynamics for something like downshifting and punching it, not just smooth 3rd gear pulls. And uphill punching it. flat 3rd gear pulls are very different from punching it going uphill & it takes some time getting both those cases right for boost. Then I dialed in the AFRs around 11:1. Again, check many cases. Then you start dialing the timing back up. I prefer to do this piecewise, 2000 - 4000 is really tricky, as this is spool range, and 3rd gear flat is very different from 4th or 5th gear uphill. go as far as your are comfortable and not hearing knock, then back it another 0.5-1 degree for margin. Then do the same in 4000-5500 then 5500-7000. If you have access to race gas, you can worry a lot less about overboosting while learning how the ECU controls boost and how to work with it to get quick spool with minimal spiking. I'd recommend a tank of race gas while you start learning the boost control. Once you get the hang of that, the rest of the tuning is more straightforward. ^ If all that is kinda over your head, then you probably need to do some reading to start. Engine management tuning forum has some resources. Bad Noodles tuning guide (OS). and romraider forums. Last edited by Concillian; 03-26-2010 at 03:46 PM. |
03-26-2010, 03:55 PM | #3 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 242195
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Owen Sound Ontario
Vehicle:2002 WRX Sedan World Rally Blue or whtev |
Thanks a lot sir that certainly simplifies things, however Im sure im going to spend many hours learning yet before I get dirty, lest I lobotomize my beloved Rex! Basically what your saying is take the patient route and customize every aspect of the vehicles performance, and once I have compiled enough stock and modded data, in order to make my own map(s) that suit me! Correct? One final question:
What are some of the typical affects of driving my Rex with the above mentioned bolts and NO ecu tuning whatsoever? Ive only gone as far as a cat back at this point with the two wrx's I have owned so I have never had the need for comp mods to support these new parts, just want to see it from all angles right? Thanks again. Also I have had MUCH more experiance with hondas in this regard so just wondering if the 2.0 boxer has different quirks etc. |
03-26-2010, 04:01 PM | #4 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 183634
Join Date: Jul 2008
Chapter/Region:
RMIC
Location: At the "B"
Vehicle:02 wrx/ 92 ss Booze fueled :) |
Take a look at Romraider's site
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03-26-2010, 04:39 PM | #5 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 4414
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Dublin, CA
Vehicle:2002 WRX Sedan Midnight Black |
Stock ECU runs a reasonable amount of advance up top. If you do much anything to free up power in the upper RPMs, you can end up with a little too much timing there. Depends on what gas you're running, I'm in Cali, so was running 91 when I started tuning (running E85 now, all that octane makes it way easier to work with). On 91 there isn't much margin if you start upping the boost.
If you stay with stock tune + boost, you can do a reasonable amount of mods without much risk of the engine. The real risks come with anything pre-MAF (intake related mods) and increasing the boost in the upper RPMs (EBC / MBC). Don't touch those and the stock 02-03 tune is actually pretty robust in my experience. However, don't touch those and you also won't see big gains. Any amount of mods that don't touch MAF, injectors or fuel pressure can be driven on untuned if you stay out of boost if you need to get somewhere or drive to a tuning appointment or something. Put some race gas in and it will provide the margin you need to be comfortable learning your tuning. The $$$ fill-ups on race gas become your incentive to spend more time learning quicker so you can comfortably go back to pump gas fill-ups =p Note to others reading this: This advice is specific to the 02-03 stock ECU. Stock 04-05 tune is NOT robust at all. They need to worry about the Closed Loop to Open Loop delays with any mods. Heck, even 100% stock the delays in the factory ECU are scary. Doing anything that improves spool is dangerous on those cars even if the boost level isn't changed, they just keep 14.7 AFR way too long. Last edited by Concillian; 03-26-2010 at 04:46 PM. |
03-26-2010, 05:05 PM | #6 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 242195
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Owen Sound Ontario
Vehicle:2002 WRX Sedan World Rally Blue or whtev |
Thanks a lot very helpful sir.
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03-26-2010, 05:57 PM | #7 |
Big Ron
Super Moderator Member#: 18062
Join Date: Apr 2002
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: I can save you a ton of cash
Vehicle:on car parts so PM me b4 j00 buy |
We have an entire forum for engine management....and this ain't it.
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03-29-2010, 12:45 PM | #8 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 170906
Join Date: Feb 2008
Chapter/Region:
RMIC
Vehicle:2002 WRX psm |
picking this back up, one problem you may run into is that unless you do some math to get your injector scaling roughly taken care of before you crank everything up you're probably going to be running pig rich with those injectors at stock map settings. the pinks are several CCs higher than the blue injectors.
Can someone confirm this? |
03-29-2010, 06:54 PM | #9 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 70395
Join Date: Sep 2004
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: Da-boonies,Va
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Yes that is what happens.........440cc vs 550cc
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