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09-27-2007, 01:38 PM | #1 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 44821
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: So Cal
Vehicle:2002 WRX Blue/Gold |
Just how much faster will it be??
Ok guys, I'm thinking about getting the COBB V2 AP for my '02 WRX. I already have the catless up/down pipe and the car is running great as is. Just how much better will it perform with the COBB program? Is it worth the $700?
Thanks for the advice, Harry
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09-27-2007, 01:44 PM | #2 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 62362
Join Date: May 2004
Chapter/Region:
RMIC
Location: Denver, CO
Vehicle:2005 wrx CGM |
Why don't you do some research?
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09-27-2007, 02:10 PM | #3 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 142059
Join Date: Feb 2007
Chapter/Region:
MWSOC
Location: Brownsburg, IN
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I'm sure there is someone in SoCal with a stg. 2 WRX that can help you compare.
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09-27-2007, 02:52 PM | #4 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 144251
Join Date: Mar 2007
Chapter/Region:
SCIC
Location: Murrieta, CA
Vehicle:2008 MS3 |
Just to let you know, you can find used Cobb AP's ver.1 for under $500 to get the same performance from a ver.2
With the extra $200, you can buy some suspension goodies.. |
09-27-2007, 04:17 PM | #5 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 134937
Join Date: Dec 2006
Chapter/Region:
Tri-State
Location: Allentown,PA
Vehicle:2005 WRX STG 2 Miata MX-5 |
it will be much faster, run way better, have a better torque curve...
in my eyes, yes its worth it. after the AP get a protune, and you will be blown away by what you have been missing. |
09-27-2007, 04:41 PM | #6 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 103343
Join Date: Dec 2005
Chapter/Region:
Tri-State
Location: Precision Tuning
Vehicle:2004 2.5 Hybrid 6spd Rotated Manifold/35R |
+1 If you do a quick search, there are tons and tons of topics regarding EM.
Quote:
I could not believe when I went stage 2. you'll love it |
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09-27-2007, 05:09 PM | #7 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 44821
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: So Cal
Vehicle:2002 WRX Blue/Gold |
Thanks guys...appreciate the advice
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09-27-2007, 05:12 PM | #8 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 66235
Join Date: Jul 2004
Chapter/Region:
Tri-State
Location: South Carolina !
Vehicle:2005 WRX Silver |
Night and Day!Besides I thought it was bad for Pre-04s to have hard parts w/o software?AP V1- simple and affordable used.
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09-27-2007, 05:17 PM | #9 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 44821
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: So Cal
Vehicle:2002 WRX Blue/Gold |
If anyone has a V1 they want to sell...please let me know.
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09-27-2007, 05:21 PM | #10 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 128566
Join Date: Oct 2006
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i had the same question as you when deciding on the accessport. do you have a tbe? if not, get that first because your choking the beast. i'm currently running stage 2 and from what i remember the ride felt significantly smoother with the accessport. there was some gain in hp/tq. more tq than hp enough to pull your head back. i'd get the accessport just because it's safer on the engine and you can use it for some future upgrades.
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09-27-2007, 05:21 PM | #11 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 144251
Join Date: Mar 2007
Chapter/Region:
SCIC
Location: Murrieta, CA
Vehicle:2008 MS3 |
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09-27-2007, 05:25 PM | #12 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 66235
Join Date: Jul 2004
Chapter/Region:
Tri-State
Location: South Carolina !
Vehicle:2005 WRX Silver |
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09-27-2007, 05:25 PM | #13 | |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 44821
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: So Cal
Vehicle:2002 WRX Blue/Gold |
Quote:
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09-27-2007, 06:09 PM | #14 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 19075
Join Date: May 2002
Chapter/Region:
Tri-State
Location: Long Island,NY
Vehicle:06 OBS STi MSPT Tuned Stg2 |
No,it's the other way.The 02-03's will do better then the 04's and up without EM.But you will get the most out of the car with some kind of EM.
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09-27-2007, 07:26 PM | #15 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 66235
Join Date: Jul 2004
Chapter/Region:
Tri-State
Location: South Carolina !
Vehicle:2005 WRX Silver |
oh yeah...thanks.AP1 or AP2, same maps, same results. just smaller and more bling features for AP2.
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09-27-2007, 07:28 PM | #16 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 59388
Join Date: Apr 2004
Chapter/Region:
RMIC
Location: Utah --> Monterey, CA
Vehicle:2003 WRX - Hybrid I do my own stunts |
AP FTW - I have had mine from the original production line. Never had any complaints and was totally blow away on the power increase!
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09-27-2007, 09:44 PM | #17 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 125363
Join Date: Sep 2006
Chapter/Region:
TXIC
Location: s.a. texas
Vehicle:2002 wagon protuned rally blue |
Ive heard it adds like a million hp
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09-27-2007, 11:50 PM | #18 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 63001
Join Date: May 2004
Chapter/Region:
MWSOC
Location: Lexington KY
Vehicle:02 WRX Stg. II PnP WRB |
I prefer the xpt/open source stage 2 compared to the ap stage 2 and I have had both.
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09-28-2007, 02:44 AM | #19 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 73564
Join Date: Oct 2004
Vehicle:2003 WRX black-no wing no badges |
I'm assuming that AMG Eater's questions are answered- hope it's ok if I pile on, here.
I read above that I can change out the pipes without the AP. I had originally read, like a year or two ago, that I can (and really SHOULD) change them in a "recommended" upgrade faq. So I was getting mentally ready to tear into the motor; found good pics and tricks for the change out- then- I read my '03 needs the AP before the DP/UP upgrade, I'll blow it up if I just add the down and up pipes without the accessport. So I gave up on the idea until I just stumbled into this thread (I sort of never surrender, totally). I'd like to add the coated DP and UP, leave the third cat in place, and pull the stock muffler for a lighter weight, easier breathing, "little bit louder" muffler. I thought this would help the engine life and short-circuit any chances of hurting the turbo if the uppipe (?) cat fell apart (although I've never heard of this before, but read it's a "must do") and still want to pass emissions. On the emissions part, I've read some say it will pass, some say it won't (especially if the inspector goes looking for the other two cats, I'd get failed on "principle"). Is this a good plan, and if so, can I dispense with the clanky heat shields around these pipes when I put the new ones on (assuming it's a good idea)? The accessport idea scares me a little; I can't afford a spun bearing and I'm not looking for a million horsepower, just want the engine to last as long as possible (OK, a few additional safe horsepower wouldn't bother me). I don't care much for the idea of fiddling with "maps" as I live at high altitude and have to use 91 octane. As time goes on and people gain more experience, some things get clearer and some things get muddier... Thanks, 1x2 Last edited by 1x2; 09-28-2007 at 02:59 AM. |
09-28-2007, 06:39 AM | #20 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 158006
Join Date: Aug 2007
Chapter/Region:
TXIC
Location: San Antonio
Vehicle:2003 WRX IdleWagon 1992 GVR4 379/1000 |
Quote:
Again, it appears that the Subaru ECU is only able to compensate for so much. So drastic changes to the engine systems require tuning to reach the full potential of the modifications. Can you change the UP/DP/Intake etc without a tune? Absolutely. No question about that. Been done, probably more times than not. But the potential of the car won't be reached until you get some sort of EM on it. I speak from total experience here. I have an 03 wrx as well and had an Injen CAI, Gutted UP, catless TBE for a year now without a tune. Was the car faster than stock? Sure. However, I just tonight, as in a few hours ago, flashed an XPT Stage 2 map on my ECU and the difference is night and day. Coming from the DSM community, it was easier back then. The DSM ECU's had a much larger learning curve and would make serious adjustments for your setup. You could run bigger turbo's, Fuel pumps, injectors, front mounts, just about anything, and the ECU really didn't care. No CEL's, and you felt it. Tuning of course would have helped that situation, but it wasn't nearly as necessary as it appears to be on the Subaru's. Moral of the story, if you mod your Suby, get some EM. End. Period. /Brox |
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09-28-2007, 07:07 AM | #21 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 157349
Join Date: Aug 2007
Chapter/Region:
E. Canada
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Vehicle:2010 WRX SWP |
here's the way you think about it. when you buya custom exhaust system, it is in a lot of piece. You can bolt these pieces together, there might be soooommmee leaks, but it will still run. The proper move is to weld the parts together. EM is like the welding on that exhaust. YOu can get the up and dp and 3 inch tbe, but in order to adjust the timing, a/f, boost, and actually use the full potential of the bolt ons, you Must have em. there ar emany options, jsut search in then "engine management" section. my poetic explanation help?
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09-28-2007, 07:34 AM | #22 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 152080
Join Date: Jun 2007
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: Pensacola, FL
Vehicle:6266 Precision'd Big Cam'd 2.55l 6spd Bugeye |
Quote:
I had the AP Stg2 loaded. Its sucks. It basemap works a lot better on the 04+. But, for the 02-03 it leaves a lot to be desired. Sold my APv1 due to....well it just sucked. Went UTEC and never looked back. Edit: also when i sold my AP i was able to get the UTEC w/ PII tunning laptop for less than 100 bucks more. |
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09-28-2007, 08:39 AM | #23 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 134299
Join Date: Dec 2006
Chapter/Region:
SCIC
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you'll save more gas, car will feel smoother, less or no backfiring out of the exhaust, and being catless will smell a little better but it's still pretty bad meaning your car is running rich and the tune leans it out
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09-28-2007, 12:45 PM | #24 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 63001
Join Date: May 2004
Chapter/Region:
MWSOC
Location: Lexington KY
Vehicle:02 WRX Stg. II PnP WRB |
Due to money issues I had to sell my ap and run with no em on my 02 stage 2 for awhile and I had no problems at all (although it just feels super sloppy).
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09-28-2007, 12:57 PM | #25 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 160097
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Personally i feel that EM is overrated for a 02-03 wrx for the stage 2 map. For a lot less money you can just run a mbc at 16psi. with a catless up and turboback exhaust you will be faster than cobb stage 2. Boost also will hit a lot harder.
However don't do this unless you know what the hell your doing. That means you must regulate ptfb. If you don't do this say goodbye to your engine. For noobs though, ( dont mean anything bad by this) your probably better off with EM. Although i must say though that with the rising populartity of openecu using a mbc has made less and less sense. As you can have a stage 2 vehicle for about the same price as a MBC. Regardless of which way you decide to go however a stage 2 wrx is much faster/funner/better/easier to drive on a daily basses than a stock one. Just go for it, you will not regret it at all. |
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