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Old 09-27-2007, 01:38 PM   #1
AMG Eater
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Default Just how much faster will it be??

Ok guys, I'm thinking about getting the COBB V2 AP for my '02 WRX. I already have the catless up/down pipe and the car is running great as is. Just how much better will it perform with the COBB program? Is it worth the $700?

Thanks for the advice,
Harry
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Old 09-27-2007, 01:44 PM   #2
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Why don't you do some research?
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Old 09-27-2007, 02:10 PM   #3
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I'm sure there is someone in SoCal with a stg. 2 WRX that can help you compare.
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Old 09-27-2007, 02:52 PM   #4
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Just to let you know, you can find used Cobb AP's ver.1 for under $500 to get the same performance from a ver.2

With the extra $200, you can buy some suspension goodies..
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Old 09-27-2007, 04:17 PM   #5
sti25impreza
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it will be much faster, run way better, have a better torque curve...
in my eyes, yes its worth it. after the AP get a protune, and you will be blown away by what you have been missing.
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Old 09-27-2007, 04:41 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tasq View Post
Why don't you do some research?
+1 If you do a quick search, there are tons and tons of topics regarding EM.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stkbox View Post
Just to let you know, you can find used Cobb AP's ver.1 for under $500 to get the same performance from a ver.2

With the extra $200, you can buy some suspension goodies..
+1 Try to get an used Accessport, no need for a Ver.2 unless you want 1/4mile times, 0~60's measurements.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sti25impreza View Post
it will be much faster, run way better, have a better torque curve...
in my eyes, yes its worth it. after the AP get a protune, and you will be blown away by what you have been missing.
I could not believe when I went stage 2. you'll love it
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Old 09-27-2007, 05:09 PM   #7
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Thanks guys...appreciate the advice
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Old 09-27-2007, 05:12 PM   #8
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Night and Day!Besides I thought it was bad for Pre-04s to have hard parts w/o software?AP V1- simple and affordable used.
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Old 09-27-2007, 05:17 PM   #9
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If anyone has a V1 they want to sell...please let me know.
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Old 09-27-2007, 05:21 PM   #10
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i had the same question as you when deciding on the accessport. do you have a tbe? if not, get that first because your choking the beast. i'm currently running stage 2 and from what i remember the ride felt significantly smoother with the accessport. there was some gain in hp/tq. more tq than hp enough to pull your head back. i'd get the accessport just because it's safer on the engine and you can use it for some future upgrades.
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Old 09-27-2007, 05:21 PM   #11
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Old 09-27-2007, 05:25 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AMG Eater View Post
If anyone has a V1 they want to sell...please let me know.
search the classifieds like we all do.
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Old 09-27-2007, 05:25 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iyamada View Post
i had the same question as you when deciding on the accessport. do you have a tbe? if not, get that first because your choking the beast. i'm currently running stage 2 and from what i remember the ride felt significantly smoother with the accessport. there was some gain in hp/tq. more tq than hp enough to pull your head back. i'd get the accessport just because it's safer on the engine and you can use it for some future upgrades.
I do have the tbe. Is the display the only differance between the ap version 1 and 2? Will both achieve the exact same end?
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Old 09-27-2007, 06:09 PM   #14
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Night and Day!Besides I thought it was bad for Pre-04s to have hard parts w/o software?AP V1- simple and affordable used.
No,it's the other way.The 02-03's will do better then the 04's and up without EM.But you will get the most out of the car with some kind of EM.
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Old 09-27-2007, 07:26 PM   #15
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oh yeah...thanks.AP1 or AP2, same maps, same results. just smaller and more bling features for AP2.
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Old 09-27-2007, 07:28 PM   #16
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AP FTW - I have had mine from the original production line. Never had any complaints and was totally blow away on the power increase!
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Old 09-27-2007, 09:44 PM   #17
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Ive heard it adds like a million hp
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Old 09-27-2007, 11:50 PM   #18
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I prefer the xpt/open source stage 2 compared to the ap stage 2 and I have had both.
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Old 09-28-2007, 02:44 AM   #19
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I'm assuming that AMG Eater's questions are answered- hope it's ok if I pile on, here.

I read above that I can change out the pipes without the AP. I had originally read, like a year or two ago, that I can (and really SHOULD) change them in a "recommended" upgrade faq. So I was getting mentally ready to tear into the motor; found good pics and tricks for the change out- then-

I read my '03 needs the AP before the DP/UP upgrade, I'll blow it up if I just add the down and up pipes without the accessport. So I gave up on the idea until I just stumbled into this thread (I sort of never surrender, totally).

I'd like to add the coated DP and UP, leave the third cat in place, and pull the stock muffler for a lighter weight, easier breathing, "little bit louder" muffler. I thought this would help the engine life and short-circuit any chances of hurting the turbo if the uppipe (?) cat fell apart (although I've never heard of this before, but read it's a "must do") and still want to pass emissions. On the emissions part, I've read some say it will pass, some say it won't (especially if the inspector goes looking for the other two cats, I'd get failed on "principle").

Is this a good plan, and if so, can I dispense with the clanky heat shields around these pipes when I put the new ones on (assuming it's a good idea)? The accessport idea scares me a little; I can't afford a spun bearing and I'm not looking for a million horsepower, just want the engine to last as long as possible (OK, a few additional safe horsepower wouldn't bother me). I don't care much for the idea of fiddling with "maps" as I live at high altitude and have to use 91 octane.

As time goes on and people gain more experience, some things get clearer and some things get muddier...

Thanks,

1x2

Last edited by 1x2; 09-28-2007 at 02:59 AM.
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Old 09-28-2007, 06:39 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1x2 View Post
I read my '03 needs the AP before the DP/UP upgrade, I'll blow it up if I just add the down and up pipes without the accessport.
That sorta sounds like cautious pessimism but better safe than sorry I suppose. Seems the real benefit of he AP/XPT maps are to adjust for changes that the ECU is unable to really account for rather than keep you in a comfort zone so to speak.

Again, it appears that the Subaru ECU is only able to compensate for so much. So drastic changes to the engine systems require tuning to reach the full potential of the modifications. Can you change the UP/DP/Intake etc without a tune? Absolutely. No question about that. Been done, probably more times than not. But the potential of the car won't be reached until you get some sort of EM on it.

I speak from total experience here. I have an 03 wrx as well and had an Injen CAI, Gutted UP, catless TBE for a year now without a tune. Was the car faster than stock? Sure. However, I just tonight, as in a few hours ago, flashed an XPT Stage 2 map on my ECU and the difference is night and day.

Coming from the DSM community, it was easier back then. The DSM ECU's had a much larger learning curve and would make serious adjustments for your setup. You could run bigger turbo's, Fuel pumps, injectors, front mounts, just about anything, and the ECU really didn't care. No CEL's, and you felt it. Tuning of course would have helped that situation, but it wasn't nearly as necessary as it appears to be on the Subaru's.

Moral of the story, if you mod your Suby, get some EM. End. Period.

/Brox
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Old 09-28-2007, 07:07 AM   #21
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here's the way you think about it. when you buya custom exhaust system, it is in a lot of piece. You can bolt these pieces together, there might be soooommmee leaks, but it will still run. The proper move is to weld the parts together. EM is like the welding on that exhaust. YOu can get the up and dp and 3 inch tbe, but in order to adjust the timing, a/f, boost, and actually use the full potential of the bolt ons, you Must have em. there ar emany options, jsut search in then "engine management" section. my poetic explanation help?
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Old 09-28-2007, 07:34 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LewisWORX View Post
I prefer the xpt/open source stage 2 compared to the ap stage 2 and I have had both.
Definitely !

I had the AP Stg2 loaded. Its sucks. It basemap works a lot better on the 04+. But, for the 02-03 it leaves a lot to be desired.

Sold my APv1 due to....well it just sucked. Went UTEC and never looked back.

Edit: also when i sold my AP i was able to get the UTEC w/ PII tunning laptop for less than 100 bucks more.
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Old 09-28-2007, 08:39 AM   #23
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you'll save more gas, car will feel smoother, less or no backfiring out of the exhaust, and being catless will smell a little better but it's still pretty bad meaning your car is running rich and the tune leans it out
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Old 09-28-2007, 12:45 PM   #24
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Due to money issues I had to sell my ap and run with no em on my 02 stage 2 for awhile and I had no problems at all (although it just feels super sloppy).
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Old 09-28-2007, 12:57 PM   #25
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Personally i feel that EM is overrated for a 02-03 wrx for the stage 2 map. For a lot less money you can just run a mbc at 16psi. with a catless up and turboback exhaust you will be faster than cobb stage 2. Boost also will hit a lot harder.

However don't do this unless you know what the hell your doing. That means you must regulate ptfb. If you don't do this say goodbye to your engine. For noobs though, ( dont mean anything bad by this) your probably better off with EM.

Although i must say though that with the rising populartity of openecu using a mbc has made less and less sense. As you can have a stage 2 vehicle for about the same price as a MBC.

Regardless of which way you decide to go however a stage 2 wrx is much faster/funner/better/easier to drive on a daily basses than a stock one. Just go for it, you will not regret it at all.
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