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Old 03-08-2009, 12:34 PM   #1
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Default Edmunds.com vs. Consumer Reports

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Consumer Reports recently named the 2009 Toyota Prius as "the best new-car value" among the 300 vehicles evaluated by the magazine's staff.



Edmunds.com, the online car shopping and data site, begs to differ.

In a rare public display of intra-industry acrimony, Santa Monica-based Edmunds.com issued a news release this week warning that CR's ranking of best new-car values and its crowning of the Prius hybrid as best in show "could lead cost-conscious shoppers astray."

"The Prius is a lot of cool things, but 'value' is not something that pops into mind," Edmunds.com CEO Jeremy Anwyl said in an interview. "If you're buying a Prius to save money, you're going to be in for a shock."

According to Edmunds.com's proprietary "true cost of ownership" yardstick, the No. 1 vehicle in terms of after-purchase costs is the Honda Civic DX-VP. Edmunds.com calculates the Civic's five-year

ownership cost at $29,037. That was much less than the $37,079 cost for the top-of-the-line Prius Touring model, which the site ranked 41st. The less elaborately equipped Prius Standard model fared better in the survey, ranking 17th with a five-year total ownership cost of $33,848.

The cost of ownership, as defined by both Edmunds.com and Consumer Reports, doesn't include what you actually pay for a vehicle. It measures all the additional direct and indirect costs -- such as depreciation, fuel costs, insurance and repairs -- paid by a new-car buyer over a given period of time.

In compiling their rankings, Edmunds.com and CR used national averages to compute insurance rates, gas prices and other expenses. Edmunds.com's free website (www.edmunds.com) will calculate ownership costs based on individual ZIP Codes. The Consumer Reports website (www.consumerreports.com -- most info. available only to subscribers) doesn't provide that option.


Although there are differences in the two outfits' ownership-cost calculations -- for example, Edmunds.com's estimate of the annual cost to insure a Prius is almost double CR's -- that's not the main reason their rankings vary so much.

In addition to ownership costs, Consumer Reports factors in the results of its customer surveys and its own vehicle road tests. This information is combined with the cost data to arrive at a final score -- which is then used to rank vehicles by "best value" as opposed to "cost of ownership."

"There's more to good value than just low cost," says Jake Fisher, a Consumer Reports vehicle tester.

And here's another twist. Consumer Reports limited its "value" rankings to vehicles that were already on the magazine's "recommended" list. Some cars that CR found were actually cheaper to own than the Prius -- notably the Toyota Yaris and the Chevrolet Aveo -- didn't make the magazine's "value" list because they received poor marks from Fisher and his fellow testers.

The No. 2 car in Edmunds' "small sedan" rankings is the Chevy Aveo, "a car that did horribly in our testing," Fisher says. "It was slow, it wasn't very fuel efficient for its class, and its emergency handling was not very good.

"To suggest that people should look at a Chevy Aveo just because it's cheaper to own doesn't really help consumers out much."

The folks at Edmunds.com, meanwhile, detect a bit of nannyism in CR's implied mission of protecting consumers from themselves.

"We feel consumers should determine" which vehicle best suits their needs, Anwyl said. The publishers of Consumer Reports "seem to think that their editors should do it for you."

So whom do you believe? If you're looking for a new car and parsing ownership costs down to the last dollar keeps you awake at night, you might start by checking the Edmunds.com "lowest cost" rankings to get a fix on which vehicles are the absolute cheapest in dollar terms to own and operate. Then you can cross-check the cheapest vehicles against CR's "best value" rankings to make sure you're not about to saddle yourself with a real stinker of a car.

And if you know somebody who owns the car you're interested in, ask what it costs them to own and operate the vehicle. Real-world experience can be an important guide -- but don't let one owner's experience totally determine your choice.

You can check out Edmunds.com's "true cost to own" findings for the 2009 Prius Touring model for free on its website. Car-by-car details of CR's "best value" calculations are available only to subscribers, but you can check out the basic ranking on its website.
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Old 03-08-2009, 02:16 PM   #2
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Consumer Reports - biggest killer of GM over the course of the last 12 years.
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Old 03-08-2009, 02:56 PM   #3
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LOL - I do my car research on Edmunds. If I want to buy a washing machine I go to Consumer Reports. 'nuff said
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Old 03-08-2009, 03:30 PM   #4
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If I want to know reliability, I use consumers reports.

If I want to know which car model is bestest, I test them myself
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Old 03-08-2009, 04:15 PM   #5
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Consumer Reports - biggest killer of GM over the course of the last 12 years.
Sorry, but no. Not to defend CR, but GM pretty much did that to themselves, as did chrysler.
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Old 03-08-2009, 04:23 PM   #6
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Sorry, but no. Not to defend CR, but GM pretty much did that to themselves, as did chrysler.
you missed my point completley.

People reading consumer reports steered them away from GM and over to Toyota.

It is MY OPINION that Consumer Reports over exaggerated the problems with GM's reliability compared to Toyota. I believe most of what people perceive about GM is on the pages of Consumer Reports...which I dont think is too accurate. I guess it's the conservative in me, that hates a magazine giving me my information, I would much rather do the research for myself.

Again my opinion, so instead of saying "sorry, but no" say ; "I have to disagree with your OPINION". kthnx.
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Old 03-08-2009, 04:26 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by AllForSRT View Post
you missed my point completley.

People reading consumer reports steered them away from GM and over to Toyota.

It is MY OPINION that Consumer Reports over exaggerated the problems with GM's reliability compared to Toyota. I believe most of what people perceive about GM is on the pages of Consumer Reports...which I dont think is too accurate.

Again my opinion, so instead of saying "sorry, but no" say ; "I have to disagree with your OPINION". kthnx.
Fair enough. Besides, I did miss your point. I now understand what you mean and I can no longer argue as I do not read CR, I'd rather read edmunds.
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Old 03-08-2009, 06:44 PM   #8
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Consumer Reports limited its "value" rankings to vehicles that were already on the magazine's "recommended" list. Some cars that CR found were actually cheaper to own than the Prius -- notably the Toyota Yaris and the Chevrolet Aveo -- didn't make the magazine's "value" list because they received poor marks from Fisher and his fellow testers.

The No. 2 car in Edmunds' "small sedan" rankings is the Chevy Aveo, "a car that did horribly in our testing," Fisher says. "It was slow, it wasn't very fuel efficient for its class, and its emergency handling was not very good.

"To suggest that people should look at a Chevy Aveo just because it's cheaper to own doesn't really help consumers out much."
this sounds like common sense. no one wants a crapbox even if it is cheap.
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Old 03-08-2009, 07:20 PM   #9
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I guess it's the conservative in me, that hates a magazine giving me my information, I would much rather do the research for myself.
Sure, you are welcome to survey 2 million car owners every year all by yourself, if that's the only way you can trust such surveys.
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Old 03-08-2009, 07:20 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Kostamojen View Post
If I want to know reliability, I use consumers reports.

If I want to know which car model is bestest, I test them myself
/thread
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Old 03-08-2009, 07:42 PM   #11
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Sure, you are welcome to survey 2 million car owners every year all by yourself, if that's the only way you can trust such surveys.
I was thinking more along the lines of actually looking at the vehicles Im looking to purchase myself, in real life....

but if the only way I can find out if I will like a vehicle is to survey a few million people, then I guess I could try that too...
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Old 03-08-2009, 08:02 PM   #12
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I was thinking more along the lines of actually looking at the vehicles Im looking to purchase myself, in real life....

but if the only way I can find out if I will like a vehicle is to survey a few million people, then I guess I could try that too...
The most important vehicle related research that CR conducts is the annual reliability survey. I think it's the best of its kind, and I doubt that you can do that kind of research yourself.

As for them publishing which cars they think are the best, how is that different from any of comparos from regular car magazines? You may not agree with their taste, which is focused on general consumers rather than car enthusiasts, but I'm sure you read some car magazines.
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Old 03-08-2009, 08:09 PM   #13
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The most important vehicle related research that CR conducts is the annual reliability survey. I think it's the best of its kind, and I doubt that you can do that kind of research yourself.

As for them publishing which cars they think are the best, how is that different from any of comparos from regular car magazines? You may not agree with their taste, which is focused on general consumers rather than car enthusiasts, but I'm sure you read some car magazines.
See, the problem is, you're doubting the type of research you are actually able to do on your own. In your mind, Consumer Reports is more knowledgable than you or me, or anyone else is. I'm not comfortable with that opinion, but you're entitiled to it. I can say I have NEVER gone and made a purchase based on a magazine's outcome in a comparison test, or a "reliabilty" rating in CR.

I have worked in a GM garage, a Subaru garage, and a Honda garage...and I can say that 7-8/10 when a vehicle has a major mechanical problem it is due to owner neglect. In short, if you know how to take car of your vehicle, it will take care of you.

As far as the comparo's go, I pretty much hate all magazine comparo's, however they are a good source of entertainment. So you can see my problem with CR, Car and Driver, Edmunds' etc...

Last edited by AllForSRT; 03-08-2009 at 08:17 PM.
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Old 03-08-2009, 08:25 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by AllForSRT View Post
See, the problem is, you're doubting the type of research you are actually able to do on your own. In your mind, Consumer Reports is more knowledgable than you or me, or anyone else is. I'm not comfortable with that opinion, but you're entitiled to it. I can say I have NEVER gone and made a purchase based on a magazine's outcome in a comparison test, or a "reliabilty" rating in CR.

I have worked in a GM garage, a Subaru garage, and a Honda garage...and I can say that 7-8/10 when a vehicle has a major mechanical problem it is due to owner neglect.

As far as the comparo's go, I pretty much hate all magazine comparo's, so you can see my problem with CR, Car and Driver, Edmunds' etc...
In my mind, the CR is more knowledgable than just about anyone when it comes to finding out what percentage of the owners of a particular car has had problems in the first three years of ownership. If that survey result is the exact oposite of what I see in my neighborhood, I still go with the survey.

In any case, you hate all comparos, so at least you are consistent. I do read them, partly because I cannot realistically drive all those cars. But when I'm out shopping for a car, of course I base my judgement on test drives when applicable.
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Old 03-08-2009, 08:27 PM   #15
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In my mind, the CR is more knowledgable than just about anyone when it comes to finding out what percentage of the owners of a particular car has had problems in the first three years of ownership. If that survey result is the exact oposite of what I see in my neighborhood, I still go with the survey.

In any case, you hate all comparos, so at least you are consistent. I do read them, partly because I cannot realistically drive all those cars. But when I'm out shopping for a car, of course I base my judgement on test drives when applicable.
fair enough, I see we are on different sides of the fence. Good arguement.
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Old 03-08-2009, 08:37 PM   #16
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fair enough, I see we are on different sides of the fence. Good arguement.
I just realized that you and I are totally dominating the Sunday night News and Rumor scene. At least I'm pulling a night shift. What's your excuse?
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Old 03-08-2009, 09:51 PM   #17
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I just realized that you and I are totally dominating the Sunday night News and Rumor scene. At least I'm pulling a night shift. What's your excuse?
i guess i just need someone to disagree with, and i dont feel like fighting with my gf.
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Old 03-08-2009, 10:35 PM   #18
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meh, i dont really listen to CR... It seems like the only people who respond to those surveys know nothing about cars
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Old 03-08-2009, 11:42 PM   #19
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I don't use CR for anything at all any more, washers or cars either one. I see too much inconsistency in their reviews that goes completely unexplained, so I have my doubts about the accuracy of their surveys.

When I'm looking at a potential new car, I go to the forums for that car and see what people bitch and complain about. I knew about the clunking struts on the STI well before I opted to buy one . CR didn't say anything about that...
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Old 03-09-2009, 02:26 AM   #20
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When the Mercury Sable was recommended by CR, but the Ford Taurus was not, I knew there was something dead wrong about their testing methods. They're the same freaking car! If you don't recommend one, why the hell would you recommend the other?
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Old 03-09-2009, 07:59 AM   #21
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Consumer Reports - biggest killer of GM over the course of the last 12 years.
I disagree. In the past, I have purchased a Chevy Avalanche and a Ford Explorer based partly on research in Consumer Reports.
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Old 03-09-2009, 09:13 AM   #22
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A lot of the problems I've had with various cars, whether they were Japanese or Domestic, were generally reflected in CR's reliability surveys. And known common problems, based on what the internet community reports, has as well. I don't think you should go strictly by CR's surveys as your only source for reliability info. Going to the enthusiast site of the car in question also gives you more detailed info about common problems. There's a lot you can learn here at Nasioc about what are common problems on Subarus. The problem with CR's reliability reports is that they don't take into consideration the severity of the problem. So, one dude that has a problem with one chip in his paint would be given the same weight as a person with large patches of paint peeling off his hood in that category. But, CR is good for getting a general idea of the overall reliability of a particular vehicle.
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