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02-24-2009, 02:11 AM | #51 | |
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Location: On the dyno at Yimi Sport
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Quote:
2nd Gear Code:
Time Speed MRP RPM 30:23.4 17 0.15 1950 30:23.5 17 0.15 1950 30:23.6 19 0.44 2013 30:23.7 19 0.44 2013 30:23.8 19 0.44 2013 30:23.9 20 0.73 2045 30:24.0 20 0.73 2045 30:24.2 21 1.02 2252 30:24.3 21 1.02 2252 30:24.4 22 1.31 2484 30:24.5 22 1.31 2484 30:24.6 22 1.31 2484 30:24.7 24 1.74 2582 30:24.8 24 1.74 2582 30:24.9 26 2.32 2749 30:25.0 26 2.32 2749 30:25.1 28 3.05 3003 30:25.3 28 3.05 3003 30:25.4 28 3.05 3003 30:25.5 30 3.92 3181 30:25.6 30 3.92 3181 30:25.7 32 5.22 3406 30:25.8 32 5.22 3406 30:25.9 34 7.4 3684 30:26.0 34 7.4 3684 30:26.1 34 7.4 3684 30:26.2 37 10.59 3972 30:26.3 37 10.59 3972 30:26.5 40 15.95 4317 30:26.6 40 15.95 4317 30:26.7 43 20.16 4697 30:26.8 43 20.16 4697 30:26.9 43 20.16 4697 30:27.0 48 19 5110 30:27.1 48 19 5110 30:27.2 52 19 5538 30:27.3 52 19 5538 30:27.4 55 19.14 5916 30:27.5 55 19.14 5916 30:27.7 55 19.14 5916 30:27.8 59 18.71 6286 30:27.9 59 18.71 6286 30:28.0 62 18.56 6657 30:28.1 62 18.56 6657 30:28.2 66 19.14 7038 30:28.3 66 19.14 7038 30:28.4 66 19.14 7038 30:28.5 68 18.85 7322 30:28.6 68 18.85 7322 30:28.8 71 18.71 7609 30:28.9 71 18.71 7609 30:29.0 74 19 7866 30:29.1 74 19 7866 30:29.2 74 19 7866 Code:
Time Speed MRP RPM 35:53.7 27 -0.87 2027 35:53.8 27 -0.87 2027 35:53.9 27 -0.87 2027 35:54.0 29 0.73 2079 35:54.1 29 0.73 2079 35:54.2 29 1.31 2159 35:54.3 29 1.31 2159 35:54.5 30 1.45 2252 35:54.6 30 1.45 2252 35:54.7 30 1.45 2252 35:54.8 32 1.89 2298 35:54.9 32 1.89 2298 35:55.0 33 2.32 2389 35:55.1 33 2.32 2389 35:55.2 34 2.61 2500 35:55.3 34 2.61 2500 35:55.4 34 2.61 2500 35:55.5 35 2.9 2588 35:55.7 35 2.9 2588 35:55.8 37 3.34 2684 35:55.9 37 3.34 2684 35:56.0 37 3.34 2684 35:56.1 38 3.77 2790 35:56.2 38 3.77 2790 35:56.3 40 4.5 2904 35:56.4 40 4.5 2904 35:56.5 41 5.22 3008 35:56.6 41 5.22 3008 35:56.8 41 5.22 3008 35:56.9 43 6.24 3118 35:57.0 43 6.24 3118 35:57.1 44 7.25 3244 35:57.2 44 7.25 3244 35:57.3 46 8.85 3371 35:57.4 46 8.85 3371 35:57.5 46 8.85 3371 35:57.6 48 11.17 3522 35:57.7 48 11.17 3522 35:57.8 50 14.36 3708 35:58.0 50 14.36 3708 35:58.1 53 18.71 3889 35:58.2 53 18.71 3889 35:58.3 53 18.71 3889 35:58.4 55 20.31 4096 35:58.5 55 20.31 4096 35:58.6 58 21.03 4285 35:58.7 58 21.03 4285 35:58.8 62 20.45 4485 35:58.9 62 20.45 4485 35:59.0 62 20.45 4485 35:59.2 64 19.87 4701 35:59.3 64 19.87 4701 35:59.4 67 20.02 4902 35:59.5 67 20.02 4902 35:59.6 70 20.6 5087 35:59.7 70 20.6 5087 35:59.8 70 20.6 5087 35:59.9 72 20.45 5278 36:00.0 72 20.45 5278 36:00.1 75 20.02 5466 36:00.2 75 20.02 5466 36:00.4 78 20.16 5673 36:00.5 78 20.16 5673 36:00.6 78 20.16 5673 36:00.7 80 20.02 5888 36:00.8 80 20.02 5888 36:00.9 83 19.44 6050 36:01.0 83 19.44 6050 36:01.1 85 19.29 6219 36:01.2 85 19.29 6219 36:01.3 85 19.29 6219 36:01.5 88 19.14 6375 36:01.6 88 19.14 6375
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02-24-2009, 02:29 AM | #52 | |
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Quote:
thats not fair Mr. Headwork, cams, half cosworth motor, rotated, reverse manifold.....did i miss anything oh.....and the 5 speed.....so your 2nd gear pull hitting 20psi at 4700rpm should be compared to my 3rd gear hitting 20psi at 4050 rpm. so there and your 3rd, 20psi @ 4100rpm to my 4th, 20psi @ 3600rpm Screw your extra 100whp and faster car....i spool to a meaningless number faster |
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02-24-2009, 03:26 AM | #53 | |
Scooby Specialist
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Join Date: Jun 2005
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Location: On the dyno at Yimi Sport
Vehicle:08 STI SWP |
Quote:
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02-24-2009, 11:08 AM | #54 | |
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Quote:
Any chance you can put all your 49-56 lb/min turbo data together. Im really interested to see all your data in that range. Mainly to see if you can tell a significant difference betweeb journal and bb. I think a OG Green vs a stock location gt30 would be interesting. Stock location gt30 vs stock location gt35. Im being selfish....im sure others would like to see more data....but i want/need to upgrade one or both of my turbos, but i dont want to go rotated. |
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02-24-2009, 11:10 AM | #55 |
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that looks fantastic. I'm sure it's a blast to drive.
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02-24-2009, 12:54 PM | #56 | |
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02-24-2009, 01:03 PM | #57 |
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Word, As I have the .82 and wanna see it as well
My dyno chart is down on post #21 of this thread, my tuner posted it : http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1638283 |
02-24-2009, 01:17 PM | #58 |
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02-24-2009, 01:18 PM | #59 | |
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Quote:
Also, here is an updated set of graphs with 5th and 1st gear added: Sure enough 1st gear spool is much slower, and 5th gear is surprisingly fast. Of course the taller gears in the 08 help a little bit as well. Jeff Sponaugle Surgeline Tuning |
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02-24-2009, 01:19 PM | #60 | ||
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Quote:
Oh, and 15 psi (or 22 or whatever) out of a GT35 is gonna be a little bit more power then 15 psi out of a 49 lb/turbo. Quote:
It is really best to compare the same gearing, as you stated already. |
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02-24-2009, 01:36 PM | #61 | |
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Quote:
Ron: If you email me some logs of different gears, I'll overlay using Origin (much better graphing). Same for LittleBlueGT (name?). Drop them to me a [email protected]. Jeff |
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02-24-2009, 02:10 PM | #62 |
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The lower gear power is pretty interesting stuff and largely overlooked.
This is why i'm kinda stuck right now. I love the daily powerband of my Green, but i want more......but i dont wanna add any lag. My stipulations are - no cams and no headwork (just too costly to me for a DD) - no rotated setups (i like being stealthy, tmic and stock location turbo hidden by a turbo blanket ) - So that pretty much limits my upgrading to - 52 lb/min journal - 52 lb/min bb - 55-56 lb/min journal - 55-56 lb/min bb - 60-62 lb/min journal - 60-62 lb/min bb I've been eyeing the atp35 for sometime but im afraid its gonna be lagalicious. |
02-24-2009, 02:23 PM | #63 | |
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Quote:
This is my car with the .63 on pump vs the .82 on pump, but I was running a bit more midrange boost. The extra torque in the .82 is due to that boost (~ 23 psi). The power uptop is at almost the same boost level (21-22psi). The 82 doesn't make much difference at this lower boost level, as you would expect. Spoolup is of course not as good with the 82, as evident in the torque. Jeff Sponaugle Surgeline Tuning |
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02-24-2009, 03:07 PM | #64 |
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That, and the much more noticeable mid range torque "hit" were the 2 biggest differences I noted between the hotsides. 5th gear really comes alive with the .63 - you rarely need to downshift (this is with my '04 gearing). The .82 seems "smoother" whereas the .63 is a freaking monster between 3.5-5.5K rpm; however, this may be due to the fact that the .82 keeps on chugging right up to redline. Just my seat of the pants observation.
Great thread, Jeff. BTW, I learned a little trick here about 2 years ago with the AVC-r and the .63: this setup will surge badly in 6th gear, so I had to setup the AVC-r to use gears 2-6, and left 1st out. It worked perfectly, and 1st was still plenty quick. Last edited by flycaster; 02-24-2009 at 03:12 PM. |
02-24-2009, 04:04 PM | #65 |
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I imagine that the lower gears would look proportionally worse with the larger AR.
ie: in 2nd gear the spool hit would be 700 rpm between the two. Ron: I have yet to see any boost threshold change attributable to bb vs journal bearing, and it doesn't make sense that any would exist. I can however see a small decrease in the spool time (time to boost when already above boost threshold), this is supported the claims that an ATP3071 supposedly has better throttle response then a 20g. Ben |
02-24-2009, 04:31 PM | #66 |
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I got the data from Paul's car 5MT LGT (rotated, very custom, sweeet SS 35R):
1st gear whp: 2nd gear whp: 3rd gear whp: 1-3 gear boost plot: I am extremely impressed Paul. Has me twitching to get a new 09 and go rotated from day uno! |
02-24-2009, 05:14 PM | #67 |
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Why does the timing spike back up right after 3000 rpms?
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02-24-2009, 05:46 PM | #68 |
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^^ he already answered that on the first page.....
basically he just didnt notice it....with the base and DA timing maps jumping up and down the total timing isnt "discovered" until you actually hit those cells and see it in a log. Personally i like to make the DA columns all one number, and then have all columns the same that im in for the majority of a WOT pull. Something like this. To me it makes "visualizing" or "knowing" what the total timing is gonna be much easier. At first its a PITA to set it up since the stock ECU's have DA maps that jump up and down cell to cell, but once you do it its really easy to modify. Code:
0.25 0.4 0.55 0.7 0.85 1 1.15 1.3 1.45 1.6 1.75 2 2.3 2.6 2.9 3.2 800 0 0 1.05 2.12 3.16 4.22 5.27 6.33 8.09 9.84 11.95 11.95 11.95 11.95 11.95 11.95 1200 0 0 1.05 2.12 3.16 4.22 5.27 6.33 8.09 9.84 11.95 11.95 11.95 11.95 11.95 11.95 1600 0 0 1.05 2.12 3.16 4.22 5.27 6.33 8.09 9.84 11.95 11.95 11.95 11.95 11.95 11.95 2000 0 0 1.05 2.12 3.16 4.22 5.27 6.33 8.09 9.84 11.95 11.95 11.95 11.95 11.95 11.95 2400 0 0 1.05 2.12 3.16 4.22 5.27 6.33 8.09 9.84 11.95 11.95 11.95 11.95 11.95 11.95 2800 0 0 1.05 2.12 3.16 4.22 5.27 6.33 8.09 9.84 11.95 11.95 11.95 11.95 11.95 11.95 3200 0 0 1.05 2.12 3.16 4.22 5.27 6.33 8.09 9.84 11.95 11.95 11.95 11.95 11.95 11.95 3600 0 0 1.05 2.12 3.16 4.22 5.27 6.33 8.09 9.84 11.95 11.95 11.95 11.95 11.95 11.95 4000 0 0 1.05 2.12 3.16 4.22 5.27 6.33 8.09 9.84 11.95 11.95 11.95 11.95 11.95 11.95 4400 0 0 1.05 2.12 3.16 4.22 5.27 6.33 8.09 9.84 11.95 11.95 11.95 11.95 11.95 11.95 4800 0 0 1.05 2.12 3.16 4.22 5.27 6.33 8.09 9.84 11.95 11.95 11.95 11.95 11.95 11.95 5200 0 0 1.05 2.12 3.16 4.22 5.27 6.33 8.09 9.84 11.95 11.95 11.95 11.95 11.95 11.95 5600 0 0 1.05 2.12 3.16 4.22 5.27 6.33 8.09 9.84 11.95 11.95 11.95 11.95 11.95 11.95 6000 0 0 1.05 2.12 3.16 4.22 5.27 6.33 8.09 9.84 11.95 11.95 11.95 11.95 11.95 11.95 6400 0 0 1.05 2.12 3.16 4.22 5.27 6.33 8.09 9.84 11.95 11.95 11.95 11.95 11.95 11.95 6800 0 0 1.05 2.12 3.16 4.22 5.27 6.33 8.09 9.84 11.95 11.95 11.95 11.95 11.95 11.95 7200 0 0 1.05 2.12 3.16 4.22 5.27 6.33 8.09 9.84 11.95 11.95 11.95 11.95 11.95 11.95 7600 0 0 1.05 2.12 3.16 4.22 5.27 6.33 8.09 9.84 11.95 11.95 11.95 11.95 11.95 11.95 |
02-24-2009, 05:53 PM | #69 |
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Correct. The real question is (and was asked by Ron): Why the dip at 2400-2600. The answer: As Load increased faster then rpm there, timing dropped. The fix would be to increase timing in those cells, although I doubt it makes any difference in resulting torque/spool. I am curious enough to test this next time I am on the dyno.
Jeff |
02-24-2009, 08:56 PM | #70 | |
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Quote:
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02-24-2009, 09:47 PM | #71 |
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my feelings are still up in the air about the HTA. The power numbers arent impressive on my WRX, yet.
Im maxing the MAF between 5000-5500rpm....im trying to decide which way to go now....big MAF or blow through. Ive never messed with a blow thru setup so im leaning that way just to learn about it. once thats done and i can see how it really does on my wrx, then maybe. |
02-24-2009, 11:31 PM | #72 |
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I'm in the same boat with my Tomei turbo. I dyno'ed it, and wondered if I could get more out of it. Added TGV deletes/spacers, and a hard inlet, and what do you know? My MAF is now pegged by 5500. So a big MAF is on its way. Spool's already quicker than before, so it's looking up.
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02-24-2009, 11:57 PM | #73 |
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Track day this weekend Jeff?
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02-25-2009, 12:15 AM | #74 | |
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Quote:
http://www.romraider.com/forum/topic4439.html The thing that bothered me about not tapering advance is that if IAM ever goes down, its going to retard a lot at high RPMs. For example my stock map has about 2 degrees of advance at redline, so if IAM drops to .5, that will pull 1 degree of timing. With 8 degrees of advance, that would pull 4 degrees of timing. Giving how quickly things are moving at higher RPM, that seems excessively retarded. So I wrote that thing and re-did my timing with it. Any lumps or other quirks in the timing surface are also shown very clearly. I won't mention any names but I do especially recommend it to tuners in the PDX area. (I have no idea whether you'll be able to paste tables in from Cobb's software, though.) |
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02-25-2009, 12:34 AM | #75 | |
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