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03-31-2009, 07:40 AM | #101 | |
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It's 93 in TEXAS.
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03-31-2009, 10:09 AM | #102 | |
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Vehicle:08 QSM Spec Bizzle 96 XJ Beater |
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03-31-2009, 04:34 PM | #103 | ||
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Location: Portland, Oregon
Vehicle:WRX H6-3.0 Turbo www.surgelinetuning.com |
Quote:
At 3000 rpm the Stage 2 car has more then a 60lb-ft advantage. My original shortblock with the stock pistons was disposed of in December of 07. (yes, I have distiniction of breaking the very first 08 STI in the US). I quickly rebuilt that shortblock with CPs, but ended up splitting the sleeve playing around with meth spray and 27psi. It now has a new case/crank and Weisco pistons. Can you please shed more light on this? Do you think the 76 makes more power at 21psi on pump gas than the 71 would? Even on Cali 91 octane? I always thought the smaller 71 would be more efficient below 25psi.Is there any advantage to using the smaller GT3071? Looking at the compressor maps, 22psi at 6500 rpm (near the hp peak) would be something around 42-43 lb/min @ 2.5PR (1.5psi pressure drop). Looking at the GT3071 comp map that nets about ~70% efficiency, and is pretty close to the edge of the map. Using the 3076 nets closer to >74%, and has more headroom. This doesn't mean you can't get good power with the 3071, but it might be a but better with the 3076. If you were to reduce your HP goals, they would quickly be closer. Do you have any pics of the kit installed on your car? One more for you --- what is the big advantage to running Speed Density on this set up? Thanks [/quote] I'll get a few pictures, as well as a good description of the SD advantage. Quote:
Jeff |
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03-31-2009, 05:00 PM | #104 |
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Location: Portland, Oregon
Vehicle:WRX H6-3.0 Turbo www.surgelinetuning.com |
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03-31-2009, 06:06 PM | #105 |
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Vehicle:CEO PhatBottiTuning 2006 STi GTX3582 + Meth |
My intake avcs is ~10* higher than yours (35* at 3000rpm) and goes to 0* at 6000-6200rpm.
did you play with yours at all, or are those stock? |
03-31-2009, 06:11 PM | #106 |
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This is my favorite thread***
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03-31-2009, 07:11 PM | #107 |
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Vehicle:2013 STI GR White |
Thanks man.
Have you done much in the way of AVCS testing? |
03-31-2009, 07:47 PM | #108 |
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Props to Jeff for sharing his tuning knowledge. If only it wasn't the other coast I'd be there to have my tune improved!
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03-31-2009, 09:12 PM | #109 |
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Location: On the dyno at Yimi Sport
Vehicle:08 STI SWP |
So is mine, but don't forget about the exhaust AVCS (which neither of us have). Those are not even close to stock values on either table and are quite similar to what I have settled for 08-09 STI's that I tune with similar size turbos (I do run a bit more intake advance throughout the rev range).
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04-18-2009, 02:50 AM | #110 |
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Vehicle:08 STI |
How's the car doin? I saw you drive past me today.
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04-20-2009, 03:26 PM | #111 |
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Location: Spokane WA
Vehicle:2007 STI White |
Do you guys leave the per cylinder compensations alone? I tried searching and searching to see if anyone has come to a conclusion yet.
What I picked up was: It could be... -Un-Equal subaru header design / backpressure etc -Intake manifold flow discrepencies -Make the cylinders closest to knock sensors knock sooner due to the knock sensor having a hard time distinguishing between engine noise/real knock - I thought that maybe it could be due to the inefficiencies of the stock turbo, running out of steam as it gets up and past 6000rpm. It decreases timing, and as it gets higher it re advances it. Subaru engineers could have re advanced it because you're not able to run 20 psi at 6800 rpm with the stock turbo. Any thoughts on this with larger snails such as a 3076R? Isaac |
04-29-2009, 10:51 PM | #112 |
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Sponaugle ... great thread, thank-you for sharing this info.
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05-06-2009, 11:32 PM | #113 |
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Location: Portland, Oregon
Vehicle:WRX H6-3.0 Turbo www.surgelinetuning.com |
Update:
I decided it was time to do a bit more tuning (in preparation for a Cosworth Intake Manifold I’ll be testing next week). I also wanted to continue my investigation of tuning the Intake and Exhaust Cam AVCS. I started out with the Stock AVCS, then ran thru about 15 different configurations. Since each of these changes requires a reflash, and after each change I did at least three pulls (with careful attention to timing between pulls as temperature of the header has a huge effect on spoolup). All in all I did about 70 dyno pulls. To help in consistency with the pulls, I ran all the pulls in S-mode, which in my map is a 19-20psi map. I also wanted a chance to fine tune the new Deastchworks 1000cc Top Feed Injectors. (They should be available now, this was a beta test set I got last week). Mod list is as per the first post with the exception that I now have DW1000 injectors. To remind everyone as to the Stock 08 AVCS maps, here is a shot of the Intake and Exhaust Cam maps as per the stock 08 Rom: Here is a quick look at the combined HP results of 8 different AVCS settings compared to stock: You can spot that with AVCS 7 and 8, the gains up top and in the midrange are noticeable. If we zoom in to the midrange boost onset section: Here you can see how the AVCS1 settings I started out with are the worst, and the AVCS7 has the best mid range gain. The stock AVCS settings are represented by the darker blue line, and it is midrange in this graph. Looking at the upper end range: The primary changes at the high end is with the Exhaust AVCS. The lowest performing runs were with the exhaust AVCS at 10 degrees. I tried running less retard as this would be a setting with the least overlap (actually negative overlap). However the advance of the exhaust cam much have created a condition where the valve opens too early reducing power at higher rpm. The best power was with AVCS map 7 and 8, which had about 20 degrees of retard. Boost is similar at higher RPM. It is interesting to see the difference in power with the same boost. ( Hello VE ) Here is a plot of the Intake and Exhaust Cams, as well as the total overlap. |
05-06-2009, 11:33 PM | #114 |
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After doing all of the runs, I stuck with AVCS Map 8. If we look at a comparison of this to the stock map we can see how gains are made.
Here is a comparison of the entire pull, AVCS Map 8 vs Stock. The new map has gains across the entire power band. If we zoom in the midrange: We can see gains from 3400 to 4600 rpm, the primary area where I added the most AVCS advance and retard. At the high end the changes made a difference, which is interesting given that the exhaust AVCS is almost the same (about 20 degrees in my map, 17 in the stock). The logs show very similar AVCS values, but it is possible changes earlier in the pull made some difference. Consider the boost: Boost is the same, but the power difference is about 8hp. That is quite a bit considering no other tuning changes were made. I did several pulls with the final map and the power was the same, about 5-8hp more then with the stock AVCS. Looking at the Intake Cam advance we can see at the low end the intake avcs has been significantly advanced, but rolloff up top has been increased. Exhaust AVCS is a bit wider and taller, especially in the area where the GT30 is spooling up. Total Cam overlap is obviously greater in the midrange by a lot. Consider that this total overlap would correspond to that same amount of Intake AVCS on the older 04-07 STIs. 43 degrees peak overlap, and a much broader curve with a faster falloff. Ending with this map, here is a datalog of the run from the above graphs: Last edited by sponaugle; 10-10-2009 at 01:00 PM. |
05-06-2009, 11:34 PM | #115 |
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Last but not least, here are the maps from this setup:
Here are the cam maps. I'll call these 'SponaugleAVCS 1.0'. Yes, there is a lot of data here to digest. I still need a few days to do some more refinement, then I will compose a "2.0" map and test it out. On the street, the car feels better without question. Me likey. Cheers, Jeff Sponaugle Research Calibrator Surgeline Tuning Last edited by sponaugle; 05-06-2009 at 11:45 PM. |
05-06-2009, 11:46 PM | #116 |
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Just a little.
Thank you! This research stuff is the most fun. I really wish I had more time to do more of it. I think this is the most number of graphs I have posted in a single post. My file server with all of the stuff I have posted over the years is getting pretty large. Perhaps I'll make a 'best of sponaugle' post someday with it all together. Jeff Last edited by sponaugle; 05-06-2009 at 11:53 PM. |
05-06-2009, 11:47 PM | #117 | |
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Jeff |
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05-07-2009, 01:38 AM | #118 |
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Oops.. Forgot one image, which is just the primary timing map. As per the conversation a few pages back, I cleaned up the table a bit. I smoothed out the low areas (even ones I don't hit), and corrected a bit of wobble at medium boost. Enjoy Jeff |
05-08-2009, 12:48 AM | #119 |
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Location: On the dyno at Yimi Sport
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Indeed it does I do find it quite remarkable that both you and I arrived at VERY similar AVCS profiles for a turbos in the same size range. I'd do more AVCS tuning on the 08's, but it is such a PITA with having to reflash that once I found a few profiles that work well, I've just stuck with them.
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05-08-2009, 01:45 AM | #120 |
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Jeff:
Have you used headers on your car? Would you recommend them? Any ideas? |
05-08-2009, 01:53 PM | #121 | |
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Quote:
Jeff |
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05-08-2009, 01:59 PM | #122 |
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Jeff,
Can you plot your engine load, total ignition timing, and boost pressure (23psi) vs rpm? I would like to compare it to what I am running currently. Thanks, Jonathon EDIT: I also have perrin headers and absolutely love them. They are uncoated and unwrapped. My headers have evidence of slippage at the slip joint, but no exhaust leakage evidence. I think they work great and sound awesome. Just my $0.02 |
05-08-2009, 02:30 PM | #123 | |
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Quote:
Boost is as the above dyno plot, as the relative boost I logged gets pegged as soon as you get on boost. Load is also limited at 4.00, a limit which is fixed in the next rev of the software. Jeff |
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05-08-2009, 04:32 PM | #124 |
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Jeff
What has changed between the tune on the first page and the current one, besides AVCS? HP has gone from 37x to 42x. The data for the AVCS testing at 20psi didn't show much change in the mid-range. As others have mentioned, thanks for sharing your data. |
05-08-2009, 05:03 PM | #125 |
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What are you guys doing with Exhaust Cam Angle A???? Intake A and B are the same, but Exhaust A and B are different tables on my car.
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