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Old 10-21-2004, 04:27 PM   #26
Jaxx
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i am going to scan a reflashed car tonight and see if the vin matches the car ... will report back
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Old 10-22-2004, 08:16 PM   #27
Jaxx
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well we hooked up with obd-2.com software tonight

on a 05 wrx with a cobb stage 1 91 map version 1.20
CIN and CVN are reported but the VIN is NOT reported

comes back with "$09 unavailable"
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Old 10-23-2004, 09:37 AM   #28
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I'd be curious to see if it would report a VIN after being unmarried. . .and if it did would it be the correct VIN?

And what about ECUtek and $09?
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Old 10-23-2004, 11:27 PM   #29
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Two work-arounds:

-Have a stock ECU. I still have my pristine stock ECU which I can put back in for emissions testing.

-The reflash guys like Cobb have to be able to completely duplicate the stock ECU os that it can be reflashed EXACTLY back to stock.
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Old 10-24-2004, 08:24 AM   #30
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But is that a generic stock ECU map? If so every car would have the same values unless the AP makes a copy of your car's map. Then you would reflash with your original map
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Old 10-24-2004, 09:58 AM   #31
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As far as I know, when you revert to stock with the AP, it reflashes the ECU with a generic stock map that it has stored in memory. It does not backup your stock map.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy1995
But is that a generic stock ECU map? If so every car would have the same values unless the AP makes a copy of your car's map. Then you would reflash with your original map
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Old 10-26-2004, 07:57 AM   #32
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One more piece of data for the fire - I tried a $09 read on my wife's unmodified 2004 FXT. CIN and CVN could be read, but I get nothing for the VIN but an ISO checksum error from my scan tool.
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Old 10-27-2004, 12:15 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KGreb
One more piece of data for the fire - I tried a $09 read on my wife's unmodified 2004 FXT. CIN and CVN could be read, but I get nothing for the VIN but an ISO checksum error from my scan tool.
OK, that's good to know. Sounds like it wasn't the flash that affected this result then. At least that's what I gather from your comment.
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Old 10-28-2004, 11:25 AM   #34
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thats becaseu its an 04 not an 05. the 05 should have the vin
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Old 10-28-2004, 12:25 PM   #35
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I addeded the data based on Jon's comment that the 2004 manual the ECU's supported $09 data. It appears VIN was not added until this year. I'd still like to see a scan of a stock 2005 WRX, to see if the Impreza line complies or if Subaru got an exemption.
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Old 10-28-2004, 06:21 PM   #36
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has anyone checked this on the 05 Legacy?
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Old 10-28-2004, 06:30 PM   #37
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KGreb did in post #25, earlier in this thread. His 05 Legacy is un-flashed. I'm quite certain that an EcuTeK re-flash would wipe out his VIN and unsync his VCN.
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Old 10-31-2004, 08:05 PM   #38
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i scanned a 05 WRX sedan today
it DID have the vin
soo seems like one more thing that an accessport/ecutek will have to deal with
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Old 10-31-2004, 10:02 PM   #39
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Thanks, Jaxx. Finally we have verification that, most likely, ALL 2005 Subaru ECUs report a VIN. And from your earlier post, we know that VIN is lost after an Accessport marriage. I'm confident that an EcuTeK reflash on a 2005 ECU will not preserve the VIN, either. So that means all you have to do is use a cheap OBD-II scan tool to check whether a 2005 ECU has been reflashed.

This leads to the question of what happens when a 2005 ECU is purchased from the parts department. It has no VIN, obviously. It must be "initialized" by the dealer, somehow. Can dealers reflash the VIN into a new 2005 ECU today? Or are they waiting on the new SSM III tool for this capability?
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Old 11-01-2004, 07:44 AM   #40
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Yet another reason that BugEyes are the best.
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Old 11-01-2004, 10:23 AM   #41
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I've posted a question on ECUTek's forum asking if they retain the VIN on 2005 USDM vehicles. Maybe they will answer, as the ECUTek dealers I've contacted have not.
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Old 11-02-2004, 09:59 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon [in CT]
Thanks, Jaxx. Finally we have verification that, most likely, ALL 2005 Subaru ECUs report a VIN. And from your earlier post, we know that VIN is lost after an Accessport marriage. I'm confident that an EcuTeK reflash on a 2005 ECU will not preserve the VIN, either. So that means all you have to do is use a cheap OBD-II scan tool to check whether a 2005 ECU has been reflashed.

This leads to the question of what happens when a 2005 ECU is purchased from the parts department. It has no VIN, obviously. It must be "initialized" by the dealer, somehow. Can dealers reflash the VIN into a new 2005 ECU today? Or are they waiting on the new SSM III tool for this capability?
Drama!

I cant wait to get my hands on some 05 Evos to see the problems I may encounter with those 05 ecus !

I got to OBDII scan a evo and see what is reported and what happens after I flash it
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Old 11-02-2004, 10:35 PM   #43
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Here is some information from Ecutek on its forum

We do not deliberately alter the VIN or any other such codes, since they form the relationship of the ECU to the vehicle and its immobiliser system. They also indicate the code version of the ECU and are a useful indication of when a ECU software update might be required in order to fix a general problem such as over zealous cylinder misfire detection or cam sensor fault detection - most Subaru vehicle models end up going though 4 or 5 ECU code revisions to iron out any bugs that are found by Subaru.

However it would be immoral (and probably illegal in the US) if we were to write our software so that when ECUs are tuned they then deliberately appear on inspection to be unaltered. If the inspection software runs a particular algorithm to detect calibration changes, then EcuTek will not attempt to circumvent this to give a bogus result. Having said that, we do update the basic ECU checksums, since the ECU will not run at all without this being done - it thinks its own memory is damaged if the checksum is incorrect. But the calibration verification requirements do not allow a basic checksum to be the basis of the calibration verification test, so updating the checksum to correctly reflect the updated data is the correct thing to do.

So in summary, we do not alter anything that we do not need to alter to produce the desired tuning result. We also do not alter anything so as to circumvent legislation - we intend to be around in the long term to support our tuning network - not get shut down by the US government for not playing ball!
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Old 11-03-2004, 10:35 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DynoFlash
Here is some information from Ecutek on its forum

We do not deliberately alter the VIN or any other such codes, since they form the relationship of the ECU to the vehicle and its immobiliser system. They also indicate the code version of the ECU and are a useful indication of when a ECU software update might be required in order to fix a general problem such as over zealous cylinder misfire detection or cam sensor fault detection - most Subaru vehicle models end up going though 4 or 5 ECU code revisions to iron out any bugs that are found by Subaru.

However it would be immoral (and probably illegal in the US) if we were to write our software so that when ECUs are tuned they then deliberately appear on inspection to be unaltered. If the inspection software runs a particular algorithm to detect calibration changes, then EcuTek will not attempt to circumvent this to give a bogus result. Having said that, we do update the basic ECU checksums, since the ECU will not run at all without this being done - it thinks its own memory is damaged if the checksum is incorrect. But the calibration verification requirements do not allow a basic checksum to be the basis of the calibration verification test, so updating the checksum to correctly reflect the updated data is the correct thing to do.

So in summary, we do not alter anything that we do not need to alter to produce the desired tuning result. We also do not alter anything so as to circumvent legislation - we intend to be around in the long term to support our tuning network - not get shut down by the US government for not playing ball!

Welll... That sure doesn't sound encouraging.
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Old 11-03-2004, 11:32 PM   #45
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I am a tech for Mercedes Benz, they have been using SCN(software calibration number) for about a year now. When ever we reflash or install an engine or trans ecu we have to enter the scn code. This is a alphanumeric string that is generated in Germany after the new module or software has been installed. The first few entries of the string are stored in the ecu, we email them and the vin to germany and get back the full scn string(anywhere from 10-40 2 digit entries). They went to this to stop unauthorized reflashes.
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Old 11-04-2004, 11:14 AM   #46
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Would an "interface module" solve this problem? I am thinking of some sort of module (using ELM chips or some other OBD chip) that would be spliced into the OBD lines and monitor OBD communications for MOD $09 requests. Such an interface module would pass through all non-MOD $09 requests to the ECU, and pass all non-MOD $09 responses back to the OBD-II port. Upon hearing a MOD $09 request... well, it would intercept this request and pass back the proper codes (which of course would have to be "learned" by the interface module prior to any reflash).

Such a solution would be discoverable upon a detailed physical inspection, and probably violates any number of regulations. But just a thought.
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Old 11-04-2004, 11:33 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valhakar
Yet another reason that BugEyes are the best.
ummmm....or a 2004...

So what's the word on piggy-backs or did I miss that part? Does the UTEC or Exde interfere with this feature. Anyone scanned a piggy-backed 05 yet?
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Old 11-04-2004, 11:38 AM   #48
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I would say it is unlikely that a piggyback would bother this at all. Hook up DD to a piggy-backed car, and you have no issues at all with reading OBD-II data - including version, IDs, etc. Piggybacks to not modify OBD-II data.

-Sean
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Old 11-04-2004, 09:19 PM   #49
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I think the solution would be to get flashed back to stock settings in the event that you felt you needed to

On our Evo 8 flashes we have been offering the service to flash our customers back to stock if they ever asked and then re-install their tune - off the shelf or custom - when they wanted it back in

It seems that a fair proportion of our customers would remove their flashes in the event they had a major warranty situation brewing and then re-install the performance settings afterwards to avoid hassels

Obviously for people that have more visiable mods like exhausts, boost controllers, intakes, injectors, fmic, etc etc - having the car flashed back to the stock settings is going to be a LOT easier than taking off all those performance mods

It seems that the reflashing will be a non issue in 99% of situations and if you have any other mods the dealer will find them a lot easier than by looking up sum codes in a shop manual

It seems to me the most effected customers by this new OBDII update will be those few who chose to keep the car 100% stock - and just add a reflash for the stealth warranty freindly factor. For those guys its going to present an extra hurdle in that they will have to get the cars flashed back to stock if they need to go in for warranty claims.
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Old 11-04-2004, 10:26 PM   #50
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So, DynoFlash, you guarantee that you offer a "get flashed back to stock settings." When you do (if you've ever done) that, can you can restore someone's ECU such that it reports the correct VIN and a legitimate CID/CVN combo?
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