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Old 08-14-2003, 02:00 PM   #1
kokuryu1
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Default building up turbo kit

i was originally planning on getting the ludespeed stage 3 turbo kit for my 2.5 rs, but i was thinking of slowly building up my engine. what parts (besides the turbo) do i need to get just to get the turbo running? i'm not planning on running a lot of boost, since most of the stuff i'm going to have is going to be stock. any help would be appreciated

i was also thinking of getting the stock wrx turbo, but what other turbos can i fit on an ej25?
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Old 08-15-2003, 12:08 AM   #2
SubaFastR
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Tough crowd on this club when asking repeat questions. My opinion is that you really should just buy the stage 3 Ludespeed. Many people have had great success with it. If you want to know what parts to get together to do it yourself, you could just read about all of the parts that the kit makers put in. If you can't afford a turbo kit, just forget it for now. Nothing like blowing your motor and having no money to repair it with.
Good luck,
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Old 08-15-2003, 01:43 AM   #3
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If you do a search there have been a few people that have listed all of the parts needed when using an old Turbo Legacy donor car. It's on the site may take a while to find it though.
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Old 08-17-2003, 06:34 AM   #4
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Probably the best/easiest way to do a low boost setup in my opinion (maybe I'm biased) is to use a stock WRX turbo and intercooler with a set of custom up and downpipes. Makes it a bolt on affair without messing with cross members or anything like that. The basic rundown woudl look something like this for a 3-4psi setup:

WRX turbo
WRX Intercooler
UP and Down pipes
Piggyback computer for handling fuel and MAP errors

Ideally you should also consider a fuel pump and possibly even upgraded injectors as essentials.

Basicly it sould run around $1500 using used turbo and intercooler, and installing it yourself (not that hard).

I guess it depends on if you have the willingness to put a little time and effort into figuring out things to save money and ultimately learn more about the whole concept in the process. The kits availible are certainly good, but it is almost sick how easy it really is to assemble and install a basic kit, for less money.

As far as what other turbos you could use, basicly anything in the basic efficiency range you're looking for. I plan on shortly developing and offering some up/down pipe sets for DSM TD05s (T25s outlet wouldn't work without custom intercooler piping.), and standard garrett T3 turbos that will let you use the stock WRX intercooler in the stock configuration.
-Brad Weingartner

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Old 08-17-2003, 12:11 PM   #5
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I'm using a custom built TD05-14b setup on my car. The parts for the turbo install were around 1200-1300. With everything else I've spent over 3k.

For a parts list check www.pitt.edu/~bjm18/

Slowboy Racing sells all the oil banjo fittings. So I'll be replacing the stuff I used with proper fittings.

Running a TD05 turbo is different than the smaller turbos. These things were meant for high boost. Running ~4psi, I'm spooled by 2200, but it feels slightly faster than stock till around 3.5-4k. Then it pulls very very hard all the way to redline. Power never really drops off. I tend to hit the rev limiter if I'm not watching the tach. It seems that the 14b will be in better efficiency on our cars with ~6psi and best would be betewen 7 and 9. Overall, I've very happy with the power delivery. You still have the torque down low but when you need it up high you have it. The best thing is the turbos that will swap right in. 16g's, 20g's, or any of the garret's that slowboy sells.

Chicksdigwagons, if you make some pipes I'd be very interested. Keep in mind the 6cm vs 7cm turbine inlet.
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Old 08-17-2003, 02:44 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mancini
Chicksdigwagons, if you make some pipes I'd be very interested. Keep in mind the 6cm vs 7cm turbine inlet.
Sounds good. I'm looking for a cheap used turbo to prototype with before I can start on that project.

The inlet shouldn't be a problem, in fact I'm not even exactly sure how I want to tackle the pre-turbo intake side even on my WRX turbo setup, but it will be fairly easy to adapt from the 6 to the 7cc on the turbo. The outlet side of the compressor is my primary concern as a flanged adaptor will be needed, but in reality its a very minor part.

Clocking the turbo will also be necessary, but I think it will still be possible to retain the internal wastegate. And it'll definately be nice to have the upgrade path of the DSM turbos as an option!

-Brad Weingartner
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Old 08-17-2003, 04:58 PM   #7
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My friend just bought a evo3 16g and is selling his 14b. He might already have a buyer for it but I'll ask him. Otherwise, check on dsmtrader. I got my 14b for 150 bucks. It has a small crack in the turbine housing which is no biggy and all the seals are still fine.

As for the 6cm vs. 7cm. The larger mitsu turbos have 7cm turbine housings and the smaller ones have 6cm housings. But yeah that isn't that hard of a thing to deal with. Even if you only made 7cm uppipes the worst case scenario would be an uneven step to a 6cm turbine housing.


Yes you do need to clock the turbo to make it fit because the turbine housing has the intake facing upward. It's basically rotated 180 degree or so. You'll have to do some very created stuff to get the wastegate to line up. I just decided it would be easier to run an external than fool around with the internal one. On my downpipe I have the internal wastegate blocked off at the flange and the flapper closed with my custom heatshielf, haha.


I used the stock elbow pipe for the compressor outlet. I just turned it around so it would point in the direction I needed it to (towards the firewall) and have it meeting my IC pipe. If I go to a front mount I just unbolt the pipe and turn it the way it's mounted on a DSM. Also the stock pipe has a 1.5" outlet. Buschur and a few other places sell a 2" pipe which is much easier for mating to IC piping.


Overall it was a pretty easy setup to make. Honestly the hardest parts were the oil lines and getting the pipes made. My pipes right now are garbage and I've had them worked on 3 times to try to improve them. If you have any questions check the website I linked to in the previous post or feel free to ask. The pictures on there might help explain how I have things lines up better.

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Old 08-17-2003, 11:27 PM   #8
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Brian, how does the wastegate sound vented to atmosphere?
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Old 08-17-2003, 11:45 PM   #9
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It really sounds like an extremely loud dentist suction tool at lower rpms. At high rpm's it RIPS...like ear bleeding loud if you're next to anything but open road. It does sounds pretty cool from a distance though.

With low boost the wastegate starts to crack when it start to get into any boost. So even going up hills I have to control the throttle so it doesn't open up. It's pretty annoying and I'll be getting rid of it soon since I just got a Brullen 3" catback. But that's just my opinion...

Maybe I'll try to get some video of it and post it.

Brian
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Old 08-18-2003, 01:06 PM   #10
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Quote:
WRX turbo
WRX Intercooler
UP and Down pipes
Piggyback computer for handling fuel and MAP errors
so i only need these 5 parts to get a turbo running on my car? one thing...if i get the up and down pipes, wouldn't they be 2.5" pipes? i thought they won't fit on the rs because the pipes on the rs are 2.25". do i need to get new headers so that i can fit them on?

also, if i got those 5 parts, how long would it take to install?

and thanx for all the info. any suggestions on which up/down pipe and ecu to get? and if i decide to get a different turbo, which turbos will fit in the rs engine bay?
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Old 08-18-2003, 03:29 PM   #11
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Nope, you need other stuff too.

fuel pump
you should do dual feed fuel setup, it's cheap insurance
rising rate fuel pressure regulator or injectors and ecu
exhaust

instead of an up pipe, you could buy a Legacy Turbo crossmember and use an aftermarket WRX header.

Most importantly, research. Buy books about turbos and read them, twice.
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Old 08-18-2003, 10:47 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by kokuryu1

so i only need these 5 parts to get a turbo running on my car? one thing...if i get the up and down pipes, wouldn't they be 2.5" pipes? i thought they won't fit on the rs because the pipes on the rs are 2.25". do i need to get new headers so that i can fit them on?

also, if i got those 5 parts, how long would it take to install?

and thanx for all the info. any suggestions on which up/down pipe and ecu to get? and if i decide to get a different turbo, which turbos will fit in the rs engine bay?
Basicly. Like I said a fuel pump is a highly recommended addition, but you could potentially run very very low boost without it. Personally, the fuel pump was the FIRST upgrade I did.

The up and downpipes can basicly bolt to your existing exhaust system. The uppipe bolts to your stock exhaust manifold, its 2" diameter. The downpipe can bolt after the first or second cat, or to some sort of custom exhaust

The other option is to replace the crossmemeber and use WRX parts, but this makes it much more difficult to revert to N/A in the future if you want to sell your car or something. The stock header doesn't work with the turbo crossmember and vice versa. Though for some this isn't a big deal.

-Brad Weingartner
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Old 08-19-2003, 01:54 AM   #13
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thanx. i think i'll buy those 5 parts and keep it running with minimal boost at first, then i'll build up around it by getting a bov, fuel pump, etc. also will any of the IHI VF series turbos fit in the rs engine bay?
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Old 08-19-2003, 02:41 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by kokuryu1
thanx. i think i'll buy those 5 parts and keep it running with minimal boost at first, then i'll build up around it by getting a bov, fuel pump, etc. also will any of the IHI VF series turbos fit in the rs engine bay?
Dude, don't skimp.... it is your car. Do not do a thing without the pump and you can't use a turbo and not a blow off valve. Go buy a book called Maximum Boost by Corky Bell. Really. VF20 is good stuff. If you're going cheap, I have a stock WRX turbo you can buy as well as a stock WRX header. Most stock WRX intercoolers for sale usually have the BOV attatched.
Kevin
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Old 08-22-2003, 01:31 PM   #15
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Mancini, I really dig what you have done using the 14b. I think using dsm parts is a great idea, as parts for those cars are plentiful and cheap, not to mention the excellent selection of sweet turbos that would be available. Thats what all the wrx guys are going to now anyways, 16-20G's and greens. I think that this may be the route I choose to go when I turbo my car. Did you fab your up and down pipe? If so did you just buy flanges and then do the welding, or did you have somebody do it? What did you do for the coolant lines to the turbo?
BTW the 14b is a great turbo. DSM guys have run some amazing times on that thing.

Chicksdigwagons, If you make these pipes I too would be interested.
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Old 08-22-2003, 01:39 PM   #16
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Don't forget all the random parts needed for the oil lines (and an oil pan). When trying to find a few missing pieces from my kit, it was impossible. Most hardware/auto parts stores don't sell the metric adapters for all the special things you need. You're gonna have to get most of the stuff through the internet (banjo bolts, galley plugs, oil lines, etc).
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Old 08-22-2003, 01:59 PM   #17
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I forgot a few more things you'll need. A new clutch, guages, new header back exhaust (stock is only 1.75") with new exhaust gaskets and bolts. Don't forget new fluids (coolant and oil). There's a lot more you'll need than just those 5 main parts. Oh yeah just remebered another one, an intake.
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Old 08-22-2003, 03:20 PM   #18
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Compressed, I had my up and down pipes made at a local exhaust shop. It was by far the biggest pain in the whole project. After several months of the shop putzing around (cause they had no idea what to do) I finally went in and worked with them so they could get it right. However, I still have to go back and get my downpipe worked on and the wastegate routed back into the exhaust.

The coolant lines are taken off the the throttle body. I forget exactly where they connect too, but I know one is directly off the coolant pipe running on top of the engine. I just used 5/16" line and clamped it to the cut down coolant pipes on the turbo. So far so good. Also, removing the intake manifold to install the oil and coolant lines makes things much much easier in my opinion.

I honestly think the only thing that keeps more people from doing their own turbo kits are the pipes and oil lines. I'm going to work on better oil lines and I'll let you guys know what I come up with.


My advice to anyone that wants to make a turbo kit is be prepared to spend lots of time working on it. Don't get upset when things don't go as planned or when you have to rebuy parts that don't quite fit or work. Don't rush and you'll be fine. A year ago I had never changed oil in a car...2 weeks ago I changed my headgaskets by myself after designing and installing a custom made/fabbed turbo kit. So if you have a desire to learn and try things go for it. Lastly, don't expect your car to be fast when it's first installed. My car barely felt faster than stock. After some tuning and reworking things it's quite fast.

On a side note, I did three 50-70mph pulls with my friend who owns a 90 Talon TSi the other day. He has a race block from Slowboy with 8.3:1 compression and balance shaft removed, evo exhaust mani and exhaust and is running stock boost on a 14b turbo. It wasn't even a contest, I pulled away like it was nothing. So this is a quality setup in my opinion.

Brian
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Old 08-22-2003, 04:18 PM   #19
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I have a couple of up pipes in stock that you can use with the standard TD04L off the WRX. Check out my website for more info. Also, check out "darshu" under the project cars section.

Chad
93 1.8T
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Old 08-22-2003, 04:23 PM   #20
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If i want to have the pipes made at the local exhaust shop, what would be the best diameter for the uppipe? i thought 2.5¨ was good for the downpipe.
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Old 08-22-2003, 05:37 PM   #21
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I guess ideally you want them to match the input diameter of the turbine housing. So anywhere from 2.0-2.5". Just keep in mind the larger the uppipe the less exhaust velocity.

The exhaust shop can have flanges made but it will take time, I suggest getting flanges elsewhere and taking them to the shop.
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Old 08-22-2003, 05:54 PM   #22
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how long is the stock uppipe on the WRX?

I was thinking this the other day when I took my car to the exhaust shop, and told the guy where the turbo would sit. then he told me that he is not so sure about it, because the uppipe would be really long and that would affect the turbine spool up.
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Old 08-22-2003, 06:13 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by Santo Domingo 2.5 RS
how long is the stock uppipe on the WRX?

I was thinking this the other day when I took my car to the exhaust shop, and told the guy where the turbo would sit. then he told me that he is not so sure about it, because the uppipe would be really long and that would affect the turbine spool up.
He is correct it does affect spoolup, however that is just the nature of the beast when turbocharging scubies. Not much to be done about it, what you can do is to have all of your exhaust bits including the downpipe ceramic coated. This will keep the heat in and will definitely help spoolup as heat is the primary force moving the turbine.

Mancini
thanks for the info, makes sense. I know you can get flanges from roadrace, I might just go that route. I am looking into the greddy emanage for engine managment, its not a standalone, but I think it might be a bit better then the safc itc combo as it does allow data logging, that would be nice to have.

Last edited by Compressed; 08-22-2003 at 06:31 PM.
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Old 08-22-2003, 07:39 PM   #24
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I've got WRX turbo flanges. If you want to go with the exhaust shop route to save money, what I would recommend is using my up pipe so you can get the turbo bolted on and all of the oil and water lines as well as figure out what they'll need to do for the intake.

Considering how easy my up pipe makes the process, $200 is not bad at all. And I have 2 in stock. I even have the flange you'll need for the down pipe.

Chad
93 1.8T
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Old 08-22-2003, 08:13 PM   #25
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I have to say I have a set of Chads up and down pipes and they are very very nice. He is very skilled when it comes to welding.
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