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Old 04-15-2009, 12:40 PM   #26
CGMDan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by generalee69 View Post
NW Region is what I was referring to. OR region is strong so is Conference.

NW region race is on it's a$$, NW region auto-x on the other hand is thriving. The difference is the people involved.

NWR race is a joke. But I think we've talked about that before. And your right, it is all about the people involved.
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Old 04-15-2009, 02:56 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by CGMDan View Post
NWR race is a joke. But I think we've talked about that before. And your right, it is all about the people involved.
That's what happens when the people in charge have NEVER DRIVEN A RACECAR before! They been volunteers and workers for forever!
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Old 04-15-2009, 07:53 PM   #28
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That's what happens when the people in charge have NEVER DRIVEN A RACECAR before! They been volunteers and workers for forever!
The sad thing is, in order to be a steward, you have to have been a driver.
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Old 04-15-2009, 08:17 PM   #29
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I definitely want to get into HPDE's at some point. Three or four twenty minute sessions instead of three or four runs sounds luxurious.
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Old 04-15-2009, 09:58 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by flyboymike View Post
I definitely want to get into HPDE's at some point. Three or four twenty minute sessions instead of three or four runs sounds luxurious.
It was a very welcome change of pace! The only problem was the crowded track. I'm not used to having to slow down for cars in front of me.
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Old 04-16-2009, 09:17 AM   #31
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For me, I started out doing autox for a few years then started doing track days, having the prior experience helped me learn car control but I and my instructor found that I was cutting off corners and not tracking out all the way. My instructor said " you're an autoxer aren't you" right away.
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Old 04-16-2009, 09:22 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paisan View Post
I did hundreds of auto-x before moving to HPDE and eventually to road racing. I found AX was both good and bad. More good than bad in that you are used to the environment (Heat, helmet, car control, car prep, etc). The only downside is that AX people are generally not nearly as smooth as a pure Road Course person in the begining, they need to fight the urge to crank the wheel etc.

Overall any track time be it Autox or Road Course is good track time.

-mike
Totally agree. Have had a few first time students that were experienced autocrossers that actually took more work than a complete newbie. As you said, they really had to learn to smooth things out. The other issue I ran into was overconfidence. Because they had been driving a car hard for years, and maybe even done very well in their class, they figured they were already fast on the track. It wasn't in an arrogant way, just the experience. The combination of abrupt turn-in and too much speed made things interesting a few times.

The other thing about driving fast on a track is that it takes more...ummm...how to I put this nicely...guts.
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Old 04-28-2009, 02:44 PM   #33
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Most people who can drive well can adapt to most anything. I ran national level karts all the way to lower open wheel series on everything from roadcourses to ovals. When I was racing all the time, I could pretty quickely aclimate to different cars etc. Did 1 autocross and the only adjustment I thought was tough was visualizing an imaginary track. The quick change in direction was no big deal compared with most kart tracks and the speeds were pretty low so, was less nervous about making mistakes (was not my car either so...). I think most reasonably good roadracers should be able to convert. Your better autox guy probably can also once they are used to the speed.
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Old 04-29-2009, 01:26 PM   #34
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ok everyone, put your dicks away.

The primary skill needed in auto-x is the ability to rapidly memorize a course and learn to drive it fast in 3 runs without getting any practice time on the course. This skill is not needed in road racing, but without it you'll suck as an autocrosser. All the other driving skills (save for racecraft and traffic management) are taught in Solo. So, to recap, the #1 needed skill for Solo is not necessary for roadracing, and is why a roadracer that turns autocrosser doesn't excel at auto-x right away.

And don't mock the difficulty of learning race craft and traffic management. Many an autocrosser can turn a decent lap on track in short order (that rapid course memorization skill is to credit for that), but not all learn race craft quickly. Some not at all, and some have some bad auto-x habits (as in, they are bad for autocross too, but nobody ever got them to break the habit) that they have to unlearn as well.

Now, knock it off with the high horse "x is better then y" BS. It's definitely a 2-way street with that crap, and it's why the roadrace/auto-x rift persists. Both sides need to learn how to respect what the other group is doing, recognize that neither is better and stop being so juvenile.
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Old 05-04-2009, 03:01 PM   #35
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+1, solo-x

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Originally Posted by STi-MAN View Post
Both are different.. but I haven't really personally seen a auto x er chew up a track.. usually i see that they're very scared of turns above 60 mph.
Here's an autocrosser setting the 2nd fastest time of the day:

Faster cars at an autocross can easily exceed 80mph on open courses. It takes guts to push a car to it's limits anywhere.

Good drivers are good drivers wherever they are. I've heard rumors of top tier professional race drivers setting FTD in underprepped cars during their first autocross. As most of us know, there's much more to fast driving than a subset of skills learned in any single sport.
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Old 05-05-2009, 11:06 PM   #36
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I also did auto xing for a couple of years before i ever did a track day. When i finally got on the road course it felt so easy and wide open. It was like someone drew out the lines for me. I can say that i adapted pretty fast.

Coming up to my first track day a friend of mind that had participated in a hand full of track days before me said "your going to be all over the place and going slow and scared". He also doesn't like auto xing. Thinks it is boring and slow. Anyway I had an open mind and told him i don't think so, but we'll see. So the day came, he was driving his moderately modded 04 wrx wagon and i had my pretty new completely stock 06 wrx. We went on to the track at slightly different times. But after a couple laps of having a blast and setting target on every car in front of me, i start catching up to my friend. And a short time later I was almost rubbing paint with him until he pointed me by.LOL He told me that he was using everything he had,while i was just as relaxed as i was when i sitting off the track(thanks to auto x).He also never did another track day after that and said that it was just to expensive.Shortly after he bought a boat.. I still go to HPDE's when i can and still auto x every event i can.
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Old 05-05-2009, 11:20 PM   #37
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Both are different.. but I haven't really personally seen a auto x er chew up a track.. usually i see that they're very scared of turns above 60 mph.
That's probably true for some. I participated in my first time attack at subiefest 2008 in street class and first time at willow springs.

At first I was braking in to turn 8 at first. While resting between sessions I over heard someone saying that they were going in to turn 8 at about 120. I was thinking to myself "Are you serious!" But by the end of the second day I was diving in to turn 8 at about 115 and barely lifing. I set the fastest time in street during qualifying, and took second place to russ warr (driving the crawford stock 08 sti) in the final by .03 of a second. Bitter sweet.Still happy with my place for my first time attack.
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Old 05-06-2009, 08:52 AM   #38
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IMHO good drivers are good drivers, and I think like Randy said, you'll notice the really good autocross guys also make really good track guys.

Peter Cunningham and Jason Saini are two guys that started autocrossing in my area, won national championships, and are incredibly successful road racers.

It's funny Peter Cunningham came out in his NSX (terrible autox car) a couple years ago and ended up in Colin Fiedler's STS Civic. I believe he beat Colin's best run on his first run in the car...after not really having autocrossed in years.
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Old 05-06-2009, 10:25 AM   #39
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IMHO good drivers are good drivers
Very true. There may be a few habits (i.e. steering input smoothness) that take a run or lap or two to re acclimate to the situation but a good river should be able to adjust and drive at the limit in any situation.
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Old 05-06-2009, 08:02 PM   #40
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I think the statement is just barley true.

You do need to rapidly memorize course (walk it once) and pick out the best line, and making adjustments with only 3-6 laps. So there is that...

Also some of the "road racers" people that are refered to by this saying, are really just unclassed Hot Lappers / PDX guys in very fast cars. drive a very fast car to 80% of its ability and you pass a lot of people on a track and you think you are fast. show up and get classed @ autocross and get whooped in PAX. this creates the illusion for some autoXers that they are faster then "good track drivers"

IMNSHO Its more autoXers finding comparisons to back up this notion, than any real apples to apples comparisons. You can not become the best at a given sport, by only cross training in other sports.

I see a similar dichotomy between rally cross and full stage rally. But no one says the same thing. it seems RallyXers assume full stage guys should be faster. But i've personally seen examples where that isn't true.

Having done Autocross, rally cross, PDX , Time trials and Full stage rally I have only heard this comparison from my pavement pounding friends whose current situation seems like they will never go to road racing.

My dirt drifting friends mostly seem to think they will end up in full stage, even if their current situation seems to say that's impossible.

Everyone saying you need bigger balls to take 120 mph Track sweeper compared to a 55 mph autoX sweeper is correct. (same for full stage rally with a huge cliff on the side of you, versus going around Cones at a rallyX) .

if you look at learning by the minute, you will learn at a faster rate autoXing.
if you look at by the day , you probably learn more 1 day at a time trial.
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