Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Tuesday March 19, 2024
Home Forums Images WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > Proven Power Bragging

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.







* As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. 
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-30-2007, 01:18 PM   #101
STIStalker
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 92783
Join Date: Aug 2005
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Puyallup, WA
Vehicle:
2004 WRX
WRB

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 02WRX2.5 View Post
Vids Vids Vids Vids Vids Vids Maybe some Vids, Jeff Vids. I'll ride shotgun
I found this video a few weeks ago about this build. http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...44685918888388

Awesome Build Jeff!! I have even more respect for you now that I see you did alot of the work yourself. I saw this car at Subiefest and shook your hand but I had no idea how much work you yourself actually put into it.
Awesome!
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
STIStalker is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 01-30-2007, 02:59 PM   #102
aps2fast4u
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 57871
Join Date: Mar 2004
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Windham,Maine
Vehicle:
2004 WRX
13.4 @ 102

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PERRINJeff View Post

RS_to_WRX_swap,
Wondered how long that would take for someone to notice. LEts just say its something no one has seen before.

Oh come on!! Secrets don't make friends..lol
aps2fast4u is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2007, 03:55 PM   #103
9vapors
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 92582
Join Date: Aug 2005
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: IA
Vehicle:
*

Default

I might have already posted here before, but it deserves twice if I already did. Amazing job, and I can't wait to see what kind of times it throws down. Looking forward to seeing it run!
9vapors is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2007, 04:03 PM   #104
SCOOBIEdoo
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 77352
Join Date: Dec 2004
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Long Beach, CA
Vehicle:
2001 GC8
Panda

Default

can i have it?
SCOOBIEdoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2007, 04:03 PM   #105
THE-95-STi
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 113734
Join Date: Apr 2006
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Charleston SC
Vehicle:
2023 FL5 Type R
Subaruless

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PERRINJeff View Post
PSM-04-STi,
You can't change the back ground, just the colors of the graphs. Yes, those can be changed, but you still have that ORANGE background! Unless they changed something i wasn't aware of. I have suggested this to Hydra many times, so who knows.
I know I am running the Hydra myself
THE-95-STi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2007, 08:00 PM   #106
PERRINJeff
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 74110
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: PERRIN Performance
Default

STIStalker,
Ya that is long before the final build. It was plenty fast then, and even scarier now! Thanks for the comments! Like any PERRIN shop car you see, it was built by us. See you at Subiefest2!

aps2fast4u,
You will see something at Subiefest2.

SCOOBIEdoo,
Maybe in August when the 08's come out! It will be for sale then.

PSM-04-STi,
Love the Hydra, and many things about it, but they just have to get rid of the Orange and we are all good.
PERRINJeff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2007, 12:24 PM   #107
Numbchux
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 71658
Join Date: Oct 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Duluth, MN
Vehicle:
'84 Brat
4" lift and 29" tires

Default

what I want to know, is what the rest of the engine (other than the one piston) looked like after the original build. as in, would that be a viable option for long-term? how about with a little less boost and a little higher CR? like, 10-12psi and 9.0:1....bet it would make for a killer torque curve


this gets me thinking and dreaming in a way that words can't describe....congrats on an awesome build!!!!!
Numbchux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2007, 01:12 PM   #108
'02NBLUE
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 86036
Join Date: Apr 2005
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: MD Route 50
Vehicle:
'16 Explorer Sport
Pearl White

Thumbs up You are living the life

I think that ever since they came out everyone has been dreaming of the EZ30 build, but few are actually able to jump into things like that.

Thanks for having the Ba**s to put your car out there and see what happens, very nice write up for an even nicer build. Good luck with the '08 build, and hopefully it will be much easier now! Props to doing something different, and opening doors for the rest of us by getting the parts flowing!

I just droped an '07 STI Longblock into my '02 WRX, and as soon as I get the first 1,000 out of the way (about another week) I will be throwing on an FP green and getting tuned, I can't wait for the results!
'02NBLUE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2007, 08:46 AM   #109
myliberty
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 120773
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Brisbane - Australia
Vehicle:
1997 Liberty
3012cc H6 + GT4088

Default

sorry jeff, I have to post it...

this is how we roll in Aus.



modified semi closed deck EZ30... instead of sleeves.
myliberty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2007, 09:28 AM   #110
Numbchux
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 71658
Join Date: Oct 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Duluth, MN
Vehicle:
'84 Brat
4" lift and 29" tires

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by myliberty View Post
sorry jeff, I have to post it...

this is how we roll in Aus.



modified semi closed deck EZ30... instead of sleeves.
holy sexy engine batman!!! that looks amazing!
Numbchux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2007, 09:51 AM   #111
My-STI-Rules
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 62580
Join Date: May 2004
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by myliberty View Post
sorry jeff, I have to post it...

this is how we roll in Aus.



modified semi closed deck EZ30... instead of sleeves.
That's crazy, not to take away from Jeff's thread, but please tell us more how you did this!!!

How deep are the supports you put in?
My-STI-Rules is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2007, 10:15 AM   #112
Jaxx
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 177
Join Date: Aug 1999
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Austin, Texas, USA
Vehicle:
The 93 W/EJ20K-sold
Subaru-less :(

Default

/whoo hoo thread jack
hmm i know the sand rail guys have been doing this for years with the ej25e

the real question is semi-closing or sleeving stronger/more cost effective
Jaxx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2007, 11:48 AM   #113
PERRINJeff
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 74110
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: PERRIN Performance
Default

Numbchux,
The other engine was perfectly fine, and that is what i used to build what you see today. Bearings, sleeves, and all that were just fine. The pistons were perfectly but they were Supertech forged pistons. The rods were fine, but as Jeff Sponaugle found out, they are a weak link.

But if you wanted to run the engine stock, i think you could do 400WHP, but it would be on the verge of blowing up!

Going up a little in compression would be fine, but in the end it would limit the amount of boost or power you would get from pump fuel. But on race fuel, that would be a good combo.

The compression ratio we went with is 8.5-1, and with the slightly shorter deck, and heads being milled a little is is somewhere between 8.7 and 8.5.

'02NBLUE,
Balls is easy, i think many people have the drive to do it, but Money! That is the biggest part of this project that people going into it may not quite grasp until you get deep into the project. The cost to do rods and pistons is not too much more than a 4 banger, but when sleeves, and all those other things like headers, and the other custom parts, really add up. Then add labor from someone else doing the work, and the $$ go up quick. For me personally, being able to do all the work cut a huge cost out of it. But a customer walking into a speed shop, saying i want the H6, that is a huge cost to think about.

I don't want to scare people away from doing this, but just to be aware if they are paying someone else to do the work.

Good luck with your build! It will be a huge difference with more displacment, and bigger turbo!

myliberty,
Very nice looking! If there was only more time, we would have left the OEM sleeves and seen what happens. But time forced the sleeves apon us. No big deal, it just adds a little more durability to the build.

The OEM sleeves are about 2/3 the thickness of the STI sleeves. This is just the Iron part of the sleeve. The aluminum part of the sleeve is also smaller than the STI, but HP per cylinder is still lower than the STI, so it should hold up. Key word there..... SHOULD.

Sleeving is stronger, but is it necessary is the question. Jeff Sponaugles engine is going to be all put together tonight, and testing will begin!

It is nice to see others doing this build, but i think this deserves it own thread.

If i decided to build a second block, it will be nothing more than stock sleeves, pistons and rods. I think for 500 daily WHP this is plenty.

My-STI-Rules,
This method is a great alternative to sleeves. The Honda world has been doing this forever and it is very well proven. Normally it is a simple insert that is pressed into the block, then welded, then machined. The above version looks like some blocks added for webbing, then welded then machined. I do like this, and it would save about $3000 for the build.
PERRINJeff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2007, 03:25 PM   #114
Numbchux
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 71658
Join Date: Oct 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Duluth, MN
Vehicle:
'84 Brat
4" lift and 29" tires

Default

I'm not looking for even 400 whp. nor would I want stock compression, I really like what you've done, but that torque curve makes me cringe.....


but, one more question, it looks like STi rods might work....is this true? did you try them? that's the one thing I haven't been able to get good info, is the rod dimensions.
Numbchux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2007, 03:27 PM   #115
alachua
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 34842
Join Date: Apr 2003
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Philly burbs
Vehicle:
HA HA!
Cookies on dowels!

Default

I didn't see listed, but what are you using for drive line components? I assume a stock STi 6-speed is the tranny, but anything special for drive shafts/axles?

-Cliff
alachua is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2007, 03:36 PM   #116
bunot
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 21641
Join Date: Jul 2002
Chapter/Region: International
Vehicle:
4EAT [email protected]
Now a 6MT! beyatch!

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by myliberty View Post
sorry jeff, I have to post it...

this is how we roll in Aus.

modified semi closed deck EZ30... instead of sleeves.
dude, your project is worthy of its own thread as been said before. you really should start it and post a link here.
bunot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2007, 04:17 PM   #117
sponaugle
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 4498
Join Date: Feb 2001
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Portland, Oregon
Vehicle:
WRX H6-3.0 Turbo
www.surgelinetuning.com

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Numbchux View Post
I'm not looking for even 400 whp. nor would I want stock compression, I really like what you've done, but that torque curve makes me cringe.....


but, one more question, it looks like STi rods might work....is this true? did you try them? that's the one thing I haven't been able to get good info, is the rod dimensions.
The H6 rods are slightly longer. I can measure it exactly when I get home tonight and tell you. You could get a custom piston made that would work, but it would be completly custom, as the small end of the H6 rods is smaller then the small end of the STI rods.

The H6 rods we had made are the same length as the stock rods.

Given the cost of getting the rods made, you could just use an STI length rod, and have a custom piston made to the right compression height and pin size.

Jeff Sponaugle
sponaugle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2007, 04:49 PM   #118
Numbchux
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 71658
Join Date: Oct 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Duluth, MN
Vehicle:
'84 Brat
4" lift and 29" tires

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sponaugle View Post
The H6 rods are slightly longer. I can measure it exactly when I get home tonight and tell you. You could get a custom piston made that would work, but it would be completly custom, as the small end of the H6 rods is smaller then the small end of the STI rods.

The H6 rods we had made are the same length as the stock rods.

Given the cost of getting the rods made, you could just use an STI length rod, and have a custom piston made to the right compression height and pin size.

Jeff Sponaugle
hmmm....very interesting....very very interesting.

Thanks!!
Numbchux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2007, 11:27 PM   #119
PHATsuby
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 13617
Join Date: Dec 2001
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: MN
Vehicle:
2001 Legacy GT back
to stock is a project too

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PERRINJeff View Post
The OEM sleeves are about 2/3 the thickness of the STI sleeves. This is just the Iron part of the sleeve. The aluminum part of the sleeve is also smaller than the STI, but HP per cylinder is still lower than the STI, so it should hold up. Key word there..... SHOULD.
I am going to have to disagree on the thickness, from my eyeball and pictures I took, all of which are in my thread, the OEM sleeve from the H6 and the STi sleeve looked identical in thickness at the access hole. I don't see any reason why the taper would be much different internally but who knows as we never cut one apart, unless you have since then. THe exact numbers are somewhere in my thread but overall aluminum sleeve thickness at the top is only like a .7mm difference with much less hp per cylinder(I know you know this cause it was a point of discussion we had, haha). So yea, I agree it should hold up, just wanted to add that observation because originally we assumed and i was told it was a lot less thick, but no one had checked, so I checked and saw no difference. I could have been wrong though, but my eye is accurate enough to pick up on a 1/3 difference in thickness.

that is all. continue with technical discussion.

Ben
PHATsuby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2007, 12:27 AM   #120
WRX2FAST4UFOOL
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 139596
Join Date: Feb 2007
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: M-Town
Vehicle:
2006 Subaru WRX STi
Aspen White

Default

its nice to see suby's hitting 550hp, soon we will be up there with supras breaking 1000s
WRX2FAST4UFOOL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2007, 02:11 AM   #121
SaabTuner
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 67608
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: SoCal
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PHATsuby View Post
... with much less hp per cylinder ...
Ben
Not to be too pedantic, but it's probably more meaningfull to think in terms of BMEP, or boost vs. timing, than hp/cyl. The reason is that, although these cylinders have less hp each, they are also each smaller, so that physical force is spread out over less space.

Imagine if you tried to get 100 hp/cyl out of a 2cc model airplane engine or something.

Even hp/liter is more usefull when talking about how physically-stressed an engine is, for that reason.
SaabTuner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2007, 02:52 AM   #122
SOOBE
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 78977
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Down Under
Default

Very thorough write up, im very impressed with what you have managed to achieve. congrats! Some vids with some roll ons and incar footage would be awesome.
SOOBE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2007, 01:08 AM   #123
PHATsuby
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 13617
Join Date: Dec 2001
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: MN
Vehicle:
2001 Legacy GT back
to stock is a project too

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaabTuner View Post
Not to be too pedantic, but it's probably more meaningfull to think in terms of BMEP, or boost vs. timing, than hp/cyl. The reason is that, although these cylinders have less hp each, they are also each smaller, so that physical force is spread out over less space.

Imagine if you tried to get 100 hp/cyl out of a 2cc model airplane engine or something.

Even hp/liter is more usefull when talking about how physically-stressed an engine is, for that reason.
Point taken, I guess the next thing would be to determine surface area and how much stress is distributed per square inch of the H6 vs the H4? The H6 runs less timing obviously than the 4 cylinder.

I'll leave the calculations up to you cause you are the smart one. Or maybe I missed your point?

Ben
PHATsuby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2007, 03:09 AM   #124
SaabTuner
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 67608
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: SoCal
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PHATsuby View Post
Point taken, I guess the next thing would be to determine surface area and how much stress is distributed per square inch of the H6 vs the H4? The H6 runs less timing obviously than the 4 cylinder.
Less timing than even the 2.0? Same displacement/cylinder. It must be more efficient.

Don't need to worry about square inches. The twist of the crank will also affect it; not just the pressure. So the best method is probably hp/liter ... or maybe torque/liter. Either way.

Back to the regular discussion.
SaabTuner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2007, 05:52 PM   #125
sponaugle
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 4498
Join Date: Feb 2001
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Portland, Oregon
Vehicle:
WRX H6-3.0 Turbo
www.surgelinetuning.com

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Numbchux View Post
I'm not looking for even 400 whp. nor would I want stock compression, I really like what you've done, but that torque curve makes me cringe.....


but, one more question, it looks like STi rods might work....is this true? did you try them? that's the one thing I haven't been able to get good info, is the rod dimensions.
H6 Rods:
5.180" long (center to center)
.8665" small end diameter
2.1650 big end diameter

STI Rods:
5.138" long (center to center)
.905" small end diameter
2.1650" big end diameter

Note the H6 rod length is the same as the 2000+ SOHC 2.5L non-turbo rods. However the small end diameter is smaller then any other Subaru rod I know of.

So you could use US STI rods, but you would need to get a custom piston that us the STI pin diameter as well as a custom comp height since the rod is a bit shorter.

Jeff Sponaugle
sponaugle is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
PDXTuning/Perrin H6 Info PDXTuning Proven Power Bragging 575 04-13-2018 04:19 PM
Car chase ends in front of my apt. building with bad results. Erudition Off-Topic 42 12-12-2005 06:38 PM
H6 Turbo EZ30R tear down/build up for BE Legacy PHATsuby Subaru Conversions 2 07-04-2005 03:27 AM
My Build, with dyno results Crash477 Normally Aspirated Powertrain 49 02-28-2005 04:04 PM
I own a WRC rally car! Just completed build up!! wrx_in_efx Texas Impreza Club Forum -- TXIC 10 01-22-2002 07:38 AM

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:36 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2024 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2019, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.

As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.

When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission
Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.