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02-04-2007, 06:01 PM | #126 | |
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This was about 420whp with at 13psi. Note timing ramped to about 17 degrees at redline, and about 12 degrees at torque peak. That is quite a bit less then either the 2.0 or 2.5L. While it is the same displacement per cylinder, it is smaller in bore. 89.2 vs 92.0, or 3***37; smaller in diameter. Even given the difference in bore it still has low timing given the output torque. I would also characterize the motor as pretty knock resistantant based on my tuning experience. Jeff Sponaugle
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02-04-2007, 06:33 PM | #127 | |
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Since I have my case cracked open, I measured the thickness at the wrist pin access hole. On the H6 case it is right at .104" (2.64mm)s thick. (measured using a micrometer depth gauge. I don't happen to have an open 2.5L case here, but I will measure one when I get down to the shop. Jeff Sponaugle |
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02-04-2007, 07:01 PM | #128 |
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man..this is gonna get nuts...i am h6 envy already
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02-04-2007, 07:07 PM | #129 | |
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02-05-2007, 01:21 AM | #130 | |
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Have upgraded exhaust valves been considered for these builds? I don't think the EZ30 valves were really designed with turbo EGT's in mind. |
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02-05-2007, 11:05 AM | #131 | |
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These were not ready in time for Jeff Perrin's build, but I did get them in time to put into my H6 heads. You are likly correct that the EZ30 vavles were not designed with turbo in mind as they are not sodium filled. These heads have custom made Supertec exhaust valves for the H6 EZ30R. ( as well as the Supertec intake and exhaust springs, retainers, etc) I should also note the heads use the same spark plugs as the US STI heads (the deeper reach ones). Jeff Sponaugle Last edited by sponaugle; 02-05-2007 at 11:11 AM. |
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02-05-2007, 12:12 PM | #132 |
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'07 STI valves are not sodium filled.
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02-05-2007, 12:36 PM | #133 |
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02-05-2007, 12:58 PM | #134 |
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02-05-2007, 01:47 PM | #135 |
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Numbchux,
STI rods will work with custom pistons as Jeff S said. This is a great way to save some costs on the build. The custom pistons wouldn't out weight the $1500 rods! alachua, Driveline is all stock! Except for the Exedy Twin plate, PERRIN shifter bushings, SS, and a PERRIN diff cover. But nothing to strengthen it up. At this point the axles, tranny and rear diff, hold up to this power level just fine, under road race type conditions. But under drag racing conditions, i know something is gonna give. Most likely its the axles! PHATsuby, I knew you would chime in on that! The overall isn't a huge concern as like you and I have talked about in the past, the HP per cylinder is still much lower than the 4 banger. WRX2FAST4UFOOL, Soon! But 1000WHP on the 4 cylinder will be a little tuff. Or at least they won't last very long at that. But who knows! If the 3.6L STI comes out, we will be the first to push to 1000, you wait! SaabTuner, Good point. HP in the end is all about Cylinder pressure, and maybe a better term would be Cylinder pressure per cylinder. As far as more efficient, not sure on that. Maybe a little more, but my findings with timing curves are more agressive that Sponaugles. But, i have also been able to tune and push it a lot more than Jeff, so in the end he may find the same thing. But at low 14psi (No WI), i run 26 degrees at redline, and about 18-in the midrange, and i think there is more room to go at these boost levels. At 22psi, i am seeing about 16 ramping to 22-ish. Not too far from the 2.0L. Also the timing after 6000 is something we are still pushing. Since i have no idea what the knock voltages are supposed to be, i am always playing with increasing timing to test the waters. So who knows more timing at redline! The smaller cylinders will make for less timing overall, which is why they are still a little less than the 2.0L timing numbers, and way less than the 2.5L numbers. With Jeff S's new build i think that he will be going a little higher than mine. Those exhaust valves are much better, and will get rid of heat a little better (thinner an made of Inconel). So slightly cooler combustion chamber, and a maybe a little more timing! That is the funest thing about this engine, lots of uncharted territory. Lots of things to discover, and lots of myths to dispel! |
02-05-2007, 02:01 PM | #136 |
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nxttruck2002,
Our 07 STI made about 15WHP more than any other STI tested on the PDXTuning dyno. Maybe they found out that the sodium valves retain more heat?? OR then tinner valve behind the head is less restrictive? There is a reason why most race cars use normal SS or inconel valves. |
02-05-2007, 02:14 PM | #137 | |
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Ben |
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02-07-2007, 01:55 PM | #138 |
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Have you guys ever thought about twin tubo setups? I am currently figuring out a plan of action and was thinking twin 3240's or a set of 3037's. Any reason you did not go that route? Is it because you would have had to remove to much stuff under the hood to get everything to fit? Also you mentioned you used a diferent radiator and STI thermostat and an extrenal oil cooler. Did you notice a difference in engine heat? Have you had any frivetrain problems with it? I know the clutch you have will hold but how about the axles and differentials? any trouble with them so far?sorry about all the questions but I would like to know what works and what dosent. thanks
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02-07-2007, 05:44 PM | #139 | |
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also, check out PHATsuby's build in the legacy forum (probably will have to search). he's doing twin turbos on his EZ30R |
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02-07-2007, 08:15 PM | #140 |
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02-08-2007, 02:54 AM | #141 | ||||||
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This is my reasoning: as I understand it, the problem with high EGT's in exhaust valves starts in the same way as it does with turbine blades (with which I'm more familliar), and that is that it stems from oxidation on the surface of the metal. EG: many steel alloys, both stainless and mild, are quite strong @ 1600*F in a vacuum. Ergo, since I just can't see sodium-filling dramatically lowering the temperature at the outer-most surface of the valve, I can't see it dramatically increasing the EGT the valve can withstand. Saab used to use Sodium-filled valves, but switched to a higher-grade of stainless with a stellite coating, and then to a superalloy. Chrysler friction-welded superalloy heads onto ordinary stainless stems and then moved to full superalloy. But, that's just my take on it and non-filled valves are indeed cheaper, assuming similar materials. So who knows? Quote:
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I'm just sharing my opinion, and what facts I know, like everyone else, and I try to be light-hearted enough to laugh about it. -Adrian |
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02-10-2007, 04:13 PM | #142 |
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Realy nice job Jeff. Got some questions from a newby. Are you taking the car as a daily driver? If so,did you kept the car @ 600WHP? What about fuel consumption, more like a truck or not so bad? Driving it on slippery (we have snow in Quebec) or wet conditions hard to control? My other questions have been answered in the other 6 pages
Thanks, J. |
02-13-2007, 02:57 PM | #143 |
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wrxburton,
Phatsubys build is up and running, but not sure on dynoing it yet. You will have to bug him. I am excited to see what it does! We didn't go that route as this is still a big test, and it is much less complicated to just run one turbo. In the end, one or 2 can do the same job. 2 might spool a little better, but with in reason, the ultimate power, and spool can be be about the same. Regarding the engine heat changing with the remote cooler, nope! the H6 runs pretty hot compared to the 4 banger, and there was zero difference in overall coolant temps. Its a very strange engine in that regards. It runs pretty hot at 0-2500 RPM. Once you get above that the temps drop quite a bit. It might be do to how Subaru designed the passages. Since the engine normally runs in the 0-2500 range, they made it run warmer to be more fuel efficient. Once above this point the temps drop 10-20C! The T-stat doesn't effect this at all BTW. MikeCee, flkafqoiqoieriqanlkng, anjajfewoi. So, qrjeroijqoiferi. SaabTuner, With ya there! I think that the Inconel is good just for that reason, resiting heat. I was not really thinking, but that is what i was meant. But who knows, its all speculation, the dyno runs will show the difference, if any. But is sure is cool to say "I have inconel valves"! SimAwd, It is driven every day! Since we started running out of fuel at 600, no. But it is running about 550-570 with the boost it is set to. Fuel consumption is the same as before. But still worse than the 4 cylinder. To give you an idea, when the 4 cylinder was installed, i would get 220-ish MPT (miles per tank). With similar type of driving, i get 180-200. So its worse, but still much better than a Ford 350 gasoline truck. In the wet, when boost hits, tires start to break free. So it is a little sketchy. But in the dry it is perfect! Thanks for taking the time to read all the info. There is a lot there, and a lot to take in. |
02-13-2007, 08:33 PM | #144 |
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wow... awesome write up... now just need some more pics and videos of dyno runs and driving around! I want one!
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02-13-2007, 08:52 PM | #145 |
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wow, what an amazing build
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02-13-2007, 09:05 PM | #146 |
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Jeff, since the '07 valves are not sodium filled, does that mean they are solid (not hollow)?
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02-16-2007, 06:27 PM | #147 |
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either jeff...what was your approximate cost, exluding labor for build?
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02-16-2007, 06:29 PM | #148 |
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Either Jeff. what was your approx. cost for build? excluding your labor.
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02-16-2007, 09:34 PM | #149 |
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02-17-2007, 01:58 AM | #150 |
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[quote=PERRINJeff;16937783]Numbchux,
STI rods will work with custom pistons as Jeff S said. This is a great way to save some costs on the build. The custom pistons wouldn't out weight the $1500 rods! nice to hear the STi rods will work. Did you use the ARP 260-4701 head studs? Thanks |
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