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Old 07-22-2008, 04:43 PM   #1
alpentalic
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Default Trann Fluid? Cold = No Grind, Warm = Grind

I have a stock transmission with 60k on it and aside from a syncro grind in 4th it’s in great shape. The problem is that the grind only occurs at high rpms once the tranny fluid has had a chance to warm up.

For example, if I let my engine warm up in the drive way and I get on it a little while merging to the freeway, no grind. However, after a few miles of driving I get a slight grind if I don’t rev match perfectly, or give the rpm’s a second to drop.

After reading many many threads, I am still at a loss… Do I want to use Uncle Scotty’s Cocktail, Redline Lightweight Shockproof, regular Redline Shockproof, or something else altogether??? I need a little help.

Based on what I can tell (which isn’t much since I know little), I need something a little more viscous that will get my 4th gear syncro moving even once the fluid is warmed up.

Your recommendations are greatly appreciated.
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Old 07-22-2008, 06:25 PM   #2
AndrewtechAutomotive
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We generally recommend Redline's Lightweight Shockproof mixed with a quart of Motul Gear 300.

Phil
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Old 07-22-2008, 07:00 PM   #3
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fill your profile so we know what you have..

i am running motul 300 and am very happy so far...
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Old 07-22-2008, 07:16 PM   #4
alpentalic
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Originally Posted by bzbuzz View Post
fill your profile so we know what you have..

i am running motul 300 and am very happy so far...
Done and done...

I can't seem to find anyone in the Seattle area that has Motul, but I can find redline. Are you running the mix or strickly Motul? I'm wondering how much benifit there is to the mix over just using one or the other.
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Old 07-23-2008, 12:12 AM   #5
alpentalic
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Is there anyone out there that's had the same issue and just used the Lightweight or Regular Shockproof that can chime in?
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Old 07-23-2008, 12:33 AM   #6
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I tried different oils before cocktail and etc...
so far..strait motul300 is the best for me..
you can buy them online..
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Old 07-23-2008, 05:51 AM   #7
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andrew tech would u recomend against mixing subaru extra gear S with lw shockproof?
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Old 07-23-2008, 05:52 AM   #8
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that is of course i have a 6 mt swap from an 05 sti
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Old 07-23-2008, 07:52 AM   #9
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The 6-speed changes things quite a bit. I really like the straight Motul Gear300 in the 6-speed. For those with the infamous 4th gear grinds, I wouldn't hesitate to give 1 quart of shockproof a try with the Motul.

I haven't used the Extra S fluid in the 6-speed. I'm sure it's high quality and will probably work fine.
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Old 07-23-2008, 09:44 AM   #10
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Syncro function is directly related to the viscosity of the oil. As the oil heats up, it thins out. Viscosity goes down. Your 4th gear syncro is already worn some, so any oil will not fix the overall problem. However, you can use more viscous oil and get better syncro function, helping minimize the grinding issue cold or warm.

I'm not really certain what might be best for an already worn syncro other than actual repair. However, I've been using Amsoil Severe Gear 75w90 in my transmission and rear diff for over 50k miles, and the syncros love the stuff, buttery smooth shifts. I would suggest you try some and see how 4th gear likes it. They do offer a 75w110 and 75w140 as well. Stepping to a higher "hot" weight may further help the cause, however, I can't say much about overall feel of those oils versus the 75w90 that I use. Generally, you want to stay with as low a weight as allowable for fuel economy, but higher weights protect better. All are still a 75 weight base oil, but the 110 and 140 have more additives to thin out to less of an extent when hot, giving out a relatively thicker oil at operating temperatures. You'll have to decide what route you want to go. Amsoil makes some great products and our trannies to quite fancy their gear oils.
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Old 07-23-2008, 10:58 AM   #11
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i would buy motul online and do the mix and see how it works. many have just switched around until the find something that works for them.

as far as what backroad suggests, you may want to do that if motul mix or other 75-90 doesn't work well for you. what are you running now?

i think if you run higher than 75-90, definitely hit the gym to work on your left arm...or else you will be unproportional...with a big left calf and a big right arm
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Old 07-23-2008, 11:39 AM   #12
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just FYI...
besides an oil issue...
there are other things that can change your shifting feeling grinding etc....
check your all sus mod and drivetrain mods...including even tire pressure..

for example..I had an ALK install error, it caused a really bad shifting feeling..
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Old 07-23-2008, 01:05 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bzbuzz View Post
just FYI...
besides an oil issue...
there are other things that can change your shifting feeling grinding etc....
check your all sus mod and drivetrain mods...including even tire pressure..

for example..I had an ALK install error, it caused a really bad shifting feeling..
I know that mine is a syncro issue. I know exactly when it happened. My car was running perfectly, but then my wife and I got into a fight and I decided to go for a drive to "calm" down. I was driving angry and distracted (bad combo) and missed a shift into 4th. I know the ring is not broken, but without some sort of compensation it's just a matter of time.

Plus, other than a kartboy ss that I installed after the fact, my drivetrain is stock.
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Old 07-23-2008, 02:04 PM   #14
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Tried USC in my 03 WRX with 60k and i still prefer Amsoil Sever Gear. had it in for 500miles and i sure aint looking back.
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Old 07-23-2008, 07:23 PM   #15
alpentalic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scoobe View Post
Tried USC in my 03 WRX with 60k and i still prefer Amsoil Sever Gear. had it in for 500miles and i sure aint looking back.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Back Road Runner View Post
(excerpted from above) ... However, I've been using Amsoil Severe Gear 75w90 in my transmission and rear diff for over 50k miles, and the syncros love the stuff, buttery smooth shifts. I would suggest you try some and see how 4th gear likes it. They do offer a 75w110 and 75w140 as well. Stepping to a higher "hot" weight may further help the cause, however, I can't say much about overall feel of those oils versus the 75w90 that I use. Generally, you want to stay with as low a weight as allowable for fuel economy, but higher weights protect better. All are still a 75 weight base oil, but the 110 and 140 have more additives to thin out to less of an extent when hot, giving out a relatively thicker oil at operating temperatures.
Are you using the 75w90, or something heavier?
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Old 07-24-2008, 01:30 AM   #16
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75w90 myself. I have no reason to use a higher weight. I simply mention them as options. For one, higher weights do automatically protect a little better against shear wear, and two, you seem to have a grinding issue directly related to viscosity when warmed. This would point to trying to use a higher "hot" weight oil like the 75w110 or 75w140. However, 75w90 does seem to make our 5sp syncros quite happy. I have never once ground a gear in over 4 years, at least any time that wasn't my own fault from when my clutch foot doesn't listen to my brain. I'll note I run the car from 100F to -20F and do auto-x, rally-x, and ice race the car several times throughout the year. I am not easy on my cars. The oil help up great for 50k miles, and my syncros are still happy. Nothing will ever fix 1st gear as that's a design issue, not an oil issue, but everything else is butter smooth. I don't know what else to tell you. Our trannies love Amsoil and the Severe Gear is good stuff.
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Old 07-24-2008, 07:43 AM   #17
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In my experience (69K miles, fluid has always been swapped every year):

-- stock fluid, no grinds but lousy feel
-- Redline Shockproof, great feel but 5-4 downshift grind <---- came out in a hurry
-- USC, good feel (kinda funky) & no grind but potentially toxic and doesn't last <---- I got 13K miles out of it
-- Amsoil 75w-90 Severe Gear, great feel & no grind - WINNER
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Old 07-24-2008, 08:20 AM   #18
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I like the way amsoil sever gear 75-110 works; hot weather has no effect.I have a 5 speed with [as of yesterday]317hp/344tq.
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Old 07-24-2008, 08:33 AM   #19
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I've been using redline lightweight shockproof from 30k to 65k and the grinding I used to have in 1st is a distant memory. The fourth gear synchro was replaced early on for a grind...I think there may be some underlying issue with that synchro.

It's not "recommended" to use the lightweight shockproof, and I'm no expert - but so far so good - no synchro grinds at all.
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Old 07-24-2008, 01:15 PM   #20
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Run one of the following fluids:

Subaru Extra-S
Valvoline 75w90 Synthetic
Amsoil Severe Gear 75w90
Motul Gear 300

If you still experience the grind then you need to look into having the syncro replaced.

-Dylan @ DS1
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Old 07-29-2008, 12:17 AM   #21
alpentalic
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Talking

So to anyone that cares, I took into account everyone's advice in this post and any others that I could find and just replaced my tranny fluid. I ended up going with lightweight shockproof given it was the primary ingredient in Andrewtech's mix (couldn't find Motul Gear 300). First off, there were minimal shavings on the drain plug.

Now for the good news, my transmission feels better than when I bought it at 24k. The syncro grind in 4th gear is completely gone. Drove it hard for a while and gave it plenty of time to heat up and still shifts like new.

Thanks to all for their advice and to anyone with any sort of syncro grind, give the stuff a shot it's a hell of a lot cheaper than a rebuild. I give it four dancing bananas .
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Old 07-29-2008, 12:18 PM   #22
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I'm glad you like the new fluid!

Phil
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Old 07-29-2008, 01:38 PM   #23
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be careful with the shock proof, it gets a bit thick when it gets really cold
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Old 07-30-2008, 01:13 PM   #24
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It does take some warming up in the winter before the shifts arn't slow. I always let the synchro do it's job without using any force, it'll pop right in when it's ready everytime. If it doesn't then it was not properly speed matched.
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Old 07-31-2008, 01:18 AM   #25
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With Amsoil, you don't have to wait. Pour point is -60F, pretty good feel even in the dead of winter. Things never quite work so smoothly when it's under 0F, but the oil has never felt "thick."
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