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Old 03-17-2006, 10:52 AM   #1
thomasj
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Default Possible Headgasket problem -- HELP!

I have an 05 WRX with a turboback exhaust and Cobb Stage 2

I recently developed an overheating problem. It only seems to jump up after I've gotten heavy on the gas for bit. When it starts doing this it won't blow hot air when turning on the heater. I thought I maybe had an air pocket in the cooling system somewhere so I flushed it out (drained, cycled with water, filled up with 50/50 mix of coolant/water)

I went for a drive and it was ok for a little bit so then I got on the gas a bit, so far so good, drove normally again, an then I got on it again and the heat started climbing. My overflow reservoir got filled up and it looks like coolant spewed out of the overflow reservoir. I dumped the excessive fluid out of the overflow reservoir thinking that I may have overfilled everything. I went for another drive and the same thing happened only this time when it heated up it didn't seem to heat up as high but still definitely too high.

After examining the contents of my overflow reservoir this morning, it looks like there are specs of dark impurties. I was hoping it was just crap that didn't get flushed out when I did the flush/refill procedure but now I'm wondering if it's oil (ie. leaky headgasket)

I only have 9k miles on the car. I drive it hard from time to time but for the most part treat it like a normal driver.

I called Subaru and they it's a warrantied fix if the motor doesn't show signs of abuse. What merits that? I don't think I've abused the car.

I'm really worried that the dealer is going to screw me on this and not warranty work on my car. Should I swap the whole car back to stock and take it in and hope for the best? I'm assuming leaving the exhaust on will only give them reason to say I'm pushing too much power out of the car. I certainly don't want to give them any easy reason for saying it's my fault. I'll spend a few hours and put the factory TBE on if necessary.

What are you thoughts regarding the problem... regarding the dealer work?

Thank you,

Tom
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Old 03-17-2006, 11:57 AM   #2
thomasj
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I just wanted to also note that I'm experiening no loss in power and the car doesn't seem to overheat during normal driving conditions.

I'm wondering if I'm just having circulation problems. I'll also admit that when I flushed the system, I didn't use distilled water but rather tap water.

Here are a few high resolution pics of what the fluids look like. I'm hoping it's just straight up dirty. Also, I have no white smoke coming out of my tail pipe.

http://www.thomasj.org/subie/coolant1.jpg
http://www.thomasj.org/subie/coolant2.jpg
http://www.thomasj.org/subie/coolant3.jpg
http://www.thomasj.org/subie/oil1.jpg
http://www.thomasj.org/subie/oil2.jpg

The ONLY difference I made in my car before all of this happened and I'm assuming it's only pure coincidence but I did shorten my wastegate actuator arm one turn in hopes of reaching target boost. I never peak over 15.7 - 15.8 psi and I've done datalogging that shows no spiking. I know that's completely unrelated but I want to make sure I'm conveying all details just in case I'm missing something.
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Old 03-17-2006, 02:19 PM   #3
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Looks like your coolant is messed up, when you have black soot in the coolant after 9k miles, that isnt good. After 9k your coolant should be nice and clean.
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Old 03-17-2006, 02:51 PM   #4
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I would put the stock tbe on and take it to the dealer and let them check it out, since they will cover everything if something is wrong. Then you can know for sure if somethings wrong.
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Old 03-17-2006, 04:27 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrxer@psualt
I would put the stock tbe on and take it to the dealer and let them check it out, since they will cover everything if something is wrong. Then you can know for sure if somethings wrong.
you may want to throw on your flame suit.....
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Old 03-17-2006, 04:50 PM   #6
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Check you radiator cap. It may be releasing at a lower pressure than its supposed to. Not sure how to get it tested, but the easiest would be to find someone who has the same model year car (or similar) and swap. Take it for a run and see whtat happens.

edit: Also, I would not be too concerned about the black flakes. I see that in my overflow from time to time. More than most likely its tiny pieces of rubber from any of the numerous coolant hoses. If you see oil floating in the coolant reservoir, the red flags should be raised high.

Check your oil the next time you change it. If it looks like there's coolant in there, the red flags should raise as well.

Last edited by coyote73176; 03-17-2006 at 04:52 PM. Reason: added info
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Old 03-17-2006, 05:48 PM   #7
thomasj
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Good call on the small black flakes. I neglected to think about the the rubber tubing flaking out. Thanks to everyone else for their ideas as well. Keep 'em coming!!

I picked up a radiator cap this afternoon but haven't installed it yet. I needed something quick so I picked it up from Discount Auto Parts. It reads 16 lbs which equates to about 1.1 bar, I think. The stock radiator cap reads 137kpa. Does that equate to 1.37 bar? Any ideas here?

Before I try installing it, I want to burp the system once more making sure I have no air pockets in there. I did another flush since (this time with distilled water) and then put new coolant in it once again.

I did some fluid analysis because I'm anxious to figure this out and I really want to rule out there being a potential head gasket issue.

One of these samples is brand new coolant and the other sample is the same stuff (minus the black flakes I filtered out) only it's been cycled through my car for about 40 miles. They look strikingly similar which is a relief to there not being any oil in there.

http://thomasj.org/subie/coolant_new_vs_used.jpg

This pic is a sample of my oil which appears to be coolant-free.

http://thomasj.org/subie/oil.jpg

By the way, the white you see in there is a reflection of a cloud.

Removing the TBE and sending it to the dealer is a last resort since that will be a huge PITA.
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Old 03-17-2006, 10:52 PM   #8
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Turn your heater on while bleeding the system of air dont know if you tried that yet.
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Old 03-18-2006, 08:14 AM   #9
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If you dont have moisture on your dip stick and or your dipstick oil is not milky than chances are gasket is fine.
Sometimes if enough of the little specs of rubber get in your T-stat it can cause it to stick.
If you cant figure it out though revert to stock and when you put on your flame suit remember to wear your flame shoes also and take it to the dealer. BTW, if the dealer has seen your car for an oil change with the TBE, dont worry about reverting to stock. ( It may be to late to play the stock game) in my opinion on how dealers act with our cars, esp. where Im at and they dont see many of them.
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Old 03-18-2006, 09:31 AM   #10
coyote73176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thomasj
Good call on the small black flakes. I neglected to think about the the rubber tubing flaking out. Thanks to everyone else for their ideas as well. Keep 'em coming!!
Everyone else

You didn't like my suggestion?

Just kidding, I hope you get it figured out and back up and runnning.
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Old 03-18-2006, 11:14 AM   #11
thomasj
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Haha.... it was good suggestion... Also, I did check the oil and the rad fluid as seen in those pics and I was relieved to have discovered no cross contamination. After flushing and burping the system twice yesterday <fingers crossed> I think I got it now. I did run heater while doing this per everyone's recommendation, revved the engine and squeezed any radiator hoses. So far so good....

Thanks everyone.

Last edited by thomasj; 03-18-2006 at 11:26 AM.
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Old 03-18-2006, 11:23 AM   #12
thomasj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dibblejr
If you dont have moisture on your dip stick and or your dipstick oil is not milky than chances are gasket is fine.
Sometimes if enough of the little specs of rubber get in your T-stat it can cause it to stick.
If you cant figure it out though revert to stock and when you put on your flame suit remember to wear your flame shoes also and take it to the dealer. BTW, if the dealer has seen your car for an oil change with the TBE, dont worry about reverting to stock. ( It may be to late to play the stock game) in my opinion on how dealers act with our cars, esp. where Im at and they dont see many of them.
No, I didn't see any moisture on the dipstick. <shew> Fortunately, I haven't taken it to the dealer for anything yet so I'll leave my flamesuit in the closet. If I had to change it back to stock, the only evidence that my car had previously been modded would be my hacked OEM heatshield which I had to cut in half to make it fit over my bellmouth DP.

Thanks.
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Old 03-18-2006, 08:48 PM   #13
thomasj
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I take that back. The problem isn't solved. I drove around for about 50 miles with no problems and then out of the blue the problem came back. I swapped the radiator cap but that didn't make a difference either. In fact, it seemed to overheat more easily with the new one; however, I think the one I got is a lower pressure restistance. Coasting with a constant throttle yields no problem but as soon as I give it some gas the problem comes back. It looks like I'm off to the dealer. Any other ideas? Maybe a stuck theromstat?
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Old 03-18-2006, 10:58 PM   #14
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i would deffinately throw a thermostat in there first. A Subaru part! Change your rad cap back and look for a possible peice of trash blocking the radiator or anything like that. take your time and look everything over
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Old 03-19-2006, 11:40 AM   #15
thomasj
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The nearest Subaru dealership is about 40 minutes away so I picked up a thermostat from Advance Auto Parts.

New thermostat:

http://thomasj.org/subie/new_thermo.jpg

Old (OEM) thermostat:

http://thomasj.org/subie/old_thermo1.jpg
http://thomasj.org/subie/old_thermo2.jpg

Notice that in the second picture of the old thermostat, there a small hole in the lip with a small loose rod sticking though it. Is that some of some of overflow mechanism if too much pressure hits the thermostat?

Also, I put the old and new thermostat in some boiling water and watched them open and close with the temperature. They were pretty close to each other.
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Old 03-19-2006, 12:00 PM   #16
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Is your fan turning on when it is suppossed to? Check your fuses ensure the fan fuse has not blown.
DO not put your hands in the fan area, you never know when it might turn on, it is plastic but it will cut you.
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Old 03-19-2006, 12:07 PM   #17
thomasj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dibblejr
Is your fan turning on when it is suppossed to? Check your fuses ensure the fan fuse has not blown.
DO not put your hands in the fan area, you never know when it might turn on, it is plastic but it will cut you.
Both fans are going on/off like normal.
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Old 03-19-2006, 12:16 PM   #18
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i have black flaking in my coolant...

...its from the paint on the bottom of the radiator cap plate coming off before i just decided to scrape the rest of it off so it wasn't chilling (no pun intended) in my coolant system. IIRC, this is only an '02MY problem, though.
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Old 03-19-2006, 12:17 PM   #19
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If the dealership has not seen your car since the mods, then put it back to stock and take it in.
If you have been to the stealership for any reason since the mods it may be too late, they might have already put you in their modded watch list.
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Old 03-19-2006, 12:21 PM   #20
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You say you have the AP, are you having any CEL's? You may have to go to the stock setting and check for CEL's. You do not have to reflash the ECU to do so. Go to Autozone and borrow their Scantron its free. Remeber with the ECU using the AP anything other than stock you will not get CEL's.
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Old 03-19-2006, 12:22 PM   #21
thomasj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dibblejr
If the dealership has not seen your car since the mods, then put it back to stock and take it in.
If you have been to the stealership for any reason since the mods it may be too late, they might have already put you in their modded watch list.
Yeah, I guess it's about that time. Do you they really put you on some sort of watch list?
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Old 03-19-2006, 12:25 PM   #22
thomasj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dibblejr
You say you have the AP, are you having any CEL's? You may have to go to the stock setting and check for CEL's. You do not have to reflash the ECU to do so. Go to Autozone and borrow their Scantron its free. Remeber with the ECU using the AP anything other than stock you will not get CEL's.
I haven't noticed any CEL's. The AP says I have none. I also used ECU Explorer and it didn't report any either. I suppose I can revert it back to stock programming to see if it says something different. Doesn't the AP only mask exhaust-related CELs?
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Old 03-19-2006, 12:28 PM   #23
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100% sure, you can ask EagleRockWrex what the dealership told him. If you go in for as much of an oil change and they see any mods you go into the system
I was there buying parts for the wife Imprezza and when I came out the Service Manager, Tech Manager, and a mechanic was looking at my car. I asked them what was up, they said nice ride dude, the parts guy works there and since I buy a lot of parts he told me they put me on the list.
No big deal to me, I dont let their wrench heads touch my car anyway. I do all work myself or get a tuning shop.
Be careful.
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Old 03-19-2006, 12:31 PM   #24
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With the AP you never know, it's also a free try, would not hurt. Takes just a few minutes.
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Old 03-19-2006, 12:32 PM   #25
thomasj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dibblejr
100% sure, you can ask EagleRockWrex what the dealership told him. If you go in for as much of an oil change and they see any mods you go into the system
I was there buying parts for the wife Imprezza and when I came out the Service Manager, Tech Manager, and a mechanic was looking at my car. I asked them what was up, they said nice ride dude, the parts guy works there and since I buy a lot of parts he told me they put me on the list.
No big deal to me, I dont let their wrench heads touch my car anyway. I do all work myself or get a tuning shop.
Be careful.
Thanks. That's good to know about the dealer. I'l try reverting to stock programming, check for CELs and go from there.
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