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02-18-2011, 03:00 PM | #101 |
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Member#: 26463
Join Date: Oct 2002
Chapter/Region:
RMIC
Location: Utah
Vehicle:2002 WRX WRB |
I'm stoked about this. I wanted a Cobra as well but the price and donor price was/is too high. But my 2002 wrx with 129k miles will be retired in the next few years and will make a nice donor for this FFR Suby kit. I'm really excited for this!
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02-18-2011, 06:04 PM | #102 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 169223
Join Date: Jan 2008
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you meant a Shelby/AC Cobra? You can just get one used for $65k.... 500-600 hp instead of 200hp...
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02-18-2011, 10:31 PM | #103 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 16255
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: CO
Vehicle:2004 Mazda 3 5dr 2013 Mini Cooper S |
I'm in a similar situation. I have a 02' WRX that I've been thinking of ditching for a few years. Now with this out with a target price of $10k, I'm considering holding the WRX, assuming the FFR kit is streetable. I'd then get an eco-car for daily driving.
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02-18-2011, 11:23 PM | #104 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 92035
Join Date: Jul 2005
Vehicle:05 STI Psm |
Crumple zones?
C'mon guys. It's going to be a race car that you can inspect and title according to local laws. It will not have airbags, or sat nav or heated headlights. F5 know how to build a safe cage and I would feel plenty safe driving one on the road. Most of these do not have "crumple zones" |
02-19-2011, 12:34 AM | #105 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 119958
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: (IA) flyover cornfield country
Vehicle:1992 SVX LS-L |
Instead of a WRX... I've got an SVX. I am thinking that a built EG33 backed by a manual gearbox set amidships would be fun, fun, fun. Possibly better power to weight ratio than Cayman with cheaper running costs kind of fun.
30 Grand buys you a used Cayman. A 10-grand kit, with another 5-8 grand in engine building leaves another 12-15 grand to play with finishing the build out and other trick things, before eclipsing the budget just to buy into a used Porsche, not counting if the Porsche needs any attention once it is purchased, at Porsche labor and parts rates. A stock NA EG33 has about as much horsepower as an early WRX turbo. Plus the EG can be tuned, and if properly built with cam and piston replacements, it can be turbocharged just like an EJ22. Turbo EG33s can exceed 400hp, and the best tuned naturally aspirated ones can break well over 300hp, like a certain engine-swapped GC coupe road-race car. Not to say that a tuned-up EZ30R or EZ36 wouldn't also be interesting... if you can find someone to tune one up... Not a lot of aftermarket support for the EZ series. Sounds like a LOT of fun. Last edited by HipToBeSquare; 02-19-2011 at 12:43 AM. |
02-19-2011, 12:19 PM | #106 |
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Member#: 92035
Join Date: Jul 2005
Vehicle:05 STI Psm |
I've read the Factory Five manual for the '65 roadster a couple of times. FF will most likely use a motor mount setup for the most commonly available engine ( the 2.0). Anything other than that will have to be custom fab'd or special ordered.
Don't know about tranny mounting setup, but your SVX motor would open up a lot of custom work. Personally I would stick to what the kit is designed around, and still have a 0-60 of 3-4.5 seconds? Not good enough? Turbo, Ecu upgrades etc. As long as the design is cool, I'm in line for one of these - affordable supercar performance is what Factory Five is all about. |
02-19-2011, 12:30 PM | #107 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 1305
Join Date: Apr 2000
Chapter/Region:
AKIC
Vehicle:2000 Impreza |
I'd stick to EJ207/257 for both simplicity and weight. A turbo EG33 would be fun but a car like this should be as light as possible and would still be ridiculously fast even on a stock 207/257.
I'll definitely be keeping an eye on this project. I've always wanted to build a kit car, and like many here have loved most of what FFR has produced. |
02-19-2011, 05:29 PM | #108 | |
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Join Date: Feb 2001
Chapter/Region:
NWIC
Location: Auburn, WA
Vehicle:2014 Electric Datsun 2005 Adventure van |
Quote:
I'm thinking EJ251 with high compression pistons, cams and worked over cylinder heads. Run it with a megasquirt and be happy with ~ 190hp in a 1800 (figure a hair over 2,000 with driver and gas) Mostly thinking that because I have a 2002 OBS with a **** body attacched to it |
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02-19-2011, 07:17 PM | #109 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 119958
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: (IA) flyover cornfield country
Vehicle:1992 SVX LS-L |
Quote:
How? It has the same bell-housing pattern as any EJ subaru engine. It also uses the same engine mounts. The only difference is that it has DOHCs with an NA engine, which the NA EJ motors are sometimes SOHC, and the EG is obviously a few inches longer by having another pair of pistons I have already suggested on Factory Five Forums to include enough space in the chassis for an EG engine, which also defacto means that there would be room for any EJ, FB, or EZ engine, also, as they are shorter in length than the EG. As long as the engine bay is long enough for the EG to physically fit without interference, the technical aspects of connecting it to the gearbox, or engine mounts are no different than any Subaru engine pre-2010 Legacy/Outback, which use a new subframe mount arrangement. Plus the radiator isn't in the engine bay on a mid-engined car, because the engine bay isn't in the front. The EG fits in most Subarus, but usually requires moving the radiator forward an inch or two. But the EG is one of the best engines Subaru has produced, and is more tune-able than the EZ. ECUtune, and some other existing EG/SVX tuners still know how to build a very healthy EG33, NA or Turbo. Plus, even a stock SVX is butter smooth, with a 60-degree firing order, and a V12-like song. With mild NA tuning like opening up the intake tract and exhaust for easier flow, it sings even sweeter, and you don't have to worry about the heat, intercooling, pre-detonation, turbo failure, or broken ring-lands of some Subaru turbo flat 4s. Unsaddled from the stock automatic gearbox, and un-corked a bit, due to not having to keep said automatic from blowing up, and the pretty cheap availability of the engines, it is a high quality and reliability per dollar option. again, as long as it fits, and I have already suggested it. |
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02-19-2011, 08:06 PM | #110 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 1305
Join Date: Apr 2000
Chapter/Region:
AKIC
Vehicle:2000 Impreza |
Quote:
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02-20-2011, 03:11 PM | #111 | |
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Member#: 92035
Join Date: Jul 2005
Vehicle:05 STI Psm |
Quote:
The weight difference between the two motors would be a consideration for sure. |
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02-20-2011, 03:35 PM | #112 |
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Member#: 16819
Join Date: Mar 2002
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SCIC
Location: Lake Elsinore, CA
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According to FF, the chassis is basically done and the wheelbase is already locked in at 85". So whether or not the H6s will fit has already been determined, we just are not privy to that information yet.
The design contest starts March 1st, so I would expect to see a CAD version of the frame at that time. |
02-20-2011, 05:29 PM | #113 | |
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Quote:
According to FFR's comments on their own forums, nothing is really locked in... they're waiting for what comes out of the design contest before setting anything in stone. |
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02-20-2011, 05:43 PM | #114 |
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MWSOC
Location: Belle Center, OH
Vehicle:0000 Nothing |
It won't happen and it shouldn't happen. The EG engines have been out of service for around half a decade. The EZ is still in production, but the pull of the EJ is that there are mountains of them ready to be swapped around. I'm curious if they're going to investigate the use of the new FB engines.
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02-21-2011, 12:54 AM | #115 | |
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Member#: 11218
Join Date: Oct 2001
Chapter/Region:
SCIC
Location: Mission Viejo, CA
Vehicle:2005 Legacy GT Wagon |
Quote:
http://www.factoryfive.com/whatsnew/...tcar/info.html |
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02-21-2011, 03:33 AM | #116 | |
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Quote:
85" would be tight for anything but a transverse motor. |
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02-21-2011, 05:34 AM | #117 | |
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Quote:
As was already pointed out.. there would have to be minimal concessions made and for some of us, a powerful N/A motor is a much bigger draw than Subaru's usual laggy turbos. |
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02-21-2011, 06:07 AM | #118 | ||
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Quote:
I'm saying this as an avid motorcyclist... that would gladly drive a FFR car on a regular basis (ie: weekly) in traffic. I'm not a safety nazi. Quote:
--- For those of you thinking "new daily driver" when you think about this car.. The FFR Roadster starts at $12,990 (30% more expensive than the WRX-based roadster) and doesn't have side windows, a roof, wipers or HVAC (ie: not even street legal). This isn't going to be a Lotus Elise for $15,000.. it's going to be a fair weather only car unless you're willing to spend a lot more to add some streetable features. Now, I'm not saying that the $10,000 kit will not have wipers or HVAC. FFR will hopefully find a way to salvage as much as possible from the donor WRX. But there will be compromises somewhere... and it's unlikely the kit will have windows unless they're vinyl and snap/zip into place on the hardtop. The hardtop will probably be an extra option as well. All I'm saying is.. get the notion of a $15,000 panty-dropping supercar out of your head and start thinking high quality kit car with far fewer amenities than you're used to. If you're reading this thread and thinking about how awesome a lightweight, powerful, 2 seat seat with incredible handling would be... but believe that safety is an overrated concept.. you can pick up a far faster and more track worthy BMW S1000RR for about $15,000 and it won't require 250 hours to build. |
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02-21-2011, 09:14 AM | #119 | |
Scooby Specialist
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Vehicle:0000 Nothing |
Quote:
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02-21-2011, 10:40 AM | #120 |
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You'll be wearing a helmet, HANS, fire suit and 6 point harness on the street? Streets that apparently have no massive vehicles or oncoming traffic. You'd still be left with far less of a "cage" than any race car. It will likely be less safe than virtually any other car on the road, but as long as you understand the risks it has the potential to be a great toy car.
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02-21-2011, 12:23 PM | #121 | |
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Quote:
The engine mounts are the same, the bell housing bolts are the same... the only difference would be that you'd need to fab up a custom exhaust and do your own wiring. |
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02-21-2011, 02:37 PM | #122 | |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 258144
Join Date: Sep 2010
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Quote:
I will build one and it will be a 6 cylinder. Why would wiring be any different. |
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02-21-2011, 02:53 PM | #123 |
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That saying only works for engines having relatively even horsepower numbers. As in, a 5.0l engine making 250 HP is likely going to have a much larger powerband than a 2.0l turbo or hihg-revving powerplant making the same power.
And, considering the very light-weight nature of this car, giving up some off-idle power for improved midrange and top end power seems to make even more sense. |
02-22-2011, 10:54 AM | #124 |
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Vehicle:'05 WRB GTX3071R JDM V8 EJ207 USDM 6MT |
I just came
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02-22-2011, 12:34 PM | #125 | |
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One of the biggest hurdles in swapping the late model EZs into the Impreza is the difference in wiring. The ECU on the '05+ (IIRC) EZ requires inputs from wheel speed sensors and various other sensors to even turn over.
I don't know what the rules are for OBDII on kit cars.. I'm assuming you don't need it... in which case a Hydra or MegaSquirt would clear up that issue fairly "simply". Quote:
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