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12-06-2012, 02:24 PM | #126 | |
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12-06-2012, 04:02 PM | #127 |
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Has it ever occurred to you guys that Toyota, the largest automaker in the world, bought out Tesla not because they were better, but because it was just far cheaper. To think they needed Tesla technology is laughable. It was the shortest line between two points. They wanted an all electric vehicle NOW.
I would think that Tesla will get FAR more out of the exchange than Toyota will. |
12-06-2012, 05:27 PM | #128 | |
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12-06-2012, 05:47 PM | #129 | ||
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Its a different type of "need". We all need to eat and drink to survive. Toyota needed Tesla's technology in order to improve their own. It isn't about survival, but it is about keeping up with market technology and content. Its no secret that Tesla has a fantastic battery and motor system. It appears to be the best in the market. Anyone with an inferior product needs to get a hold of Tesla's stuff, figure out what they did and how they did it, and find ways to improve their own stuff. This is what every manufacturer does. This is the point of benchmarking. Toyota also had a Chevrolet Volt at their technical center as they were studying the hybrid/electric technology that GM has developed. Standard practice is to perform a bunch of vehicle tests to check out ride and handling and NVH. Then bring it inside the building and run whatever dyno related tests. Then tear the whole damn thing to the ground and pass out the various components to your own engineers who develop similar parts and have them test, analyze, and report on what they find. Take what you learn and improve your products where possible. If you were to enter any major manufacturer's technical center you are guaranteed to see competitor vehicles being driven and tested for the sake of development and improvement. I certainly hope that Tesla gets/got something out of the exchange. I hope they learn a lot about component characteristics and durability testing. |
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12-06-2012, 07:57 PM | #130 | ||
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The crash record of the S is non existent so it shows nothing. Quote:
Scooby Toyota did not need to partner with Tesla to tear it down and figure it out. They partner for any patent issues. Further the "Tesla battery" was really thermal management and so forth. The battery is just Panasonic cells. Toyota is a Japanese company and Panasonic is a Japanese brand. It is hardly surprising that they are doing it. LG is korean and it is possible the ANL tech isn't being allowed out. This isn't to say Tesla isn't doing anything, the thermal management and cell matching and all the other stuff going on does matter. Nissan skimped, and the Prius PHV skimped on that as well. |
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12-06-2012, 09:10 PM | #131 | |
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The Tesla has been crash tested just like the volt was. Edit: now I see what youre trying to say. Again all Im trying to say is that the charging system is more complicated and faster than the volt. Last edited by elirentz; 12-06-2012 at 09:16 PM. |
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12-07-2012, 06:39 AM | #132 | ||
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The charger on the roadster was actually slower for a given energy input. They spent a lot of the energy pumping liquid around and so forth. Not sure how the S will pan out yet. That is not a bad thing it is why their battery is good they actually take care of it. As to crash testing last I checked Quote:
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12-07-2012, 11:22 AM | #133 | ||
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It supposedly just recieved all around 5 star ratings. http://www.engadget.com/2012/05/22/t...-s-crash-test/ But the only info I can find about it is quoting Musk so who knows. I just figured they had to test it to go into production, Last edited by elirentz; 12-07-2012 at 12:14 PM. |
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12-07-2012, 02:19 PM | #134 |
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They don't have to be tested to be in production. But it seems a good idea. The volt also got 5 star rated, but then the problem was totally blown up out of proportion (puns for the win) since no one would be in the vehicle then. Anyway I just had not seen the testing results for the S hopefully at some point more information is released. I am kinda surprised though given the recent bruhaha that netflix is facing from the SEC that Tesla would do something similar (tweet something like that).
(I put the link in since yours was broken (but then you fixed it ) http://www.engadget.com/2012/05/22/t...-s-crash-test/ It is true that the volts charger is not super high capacity, but as I already stated it doesn't make much sense to do so on a PHEV anyway. I read that it is 240V16A=3.8kW but that is pretty close. It will need to be a 20amp circuit to accommodate that constant draw though. A full charge in a few hours is plenty for most PHEV owners I would imagine. The high rate DC charging makes much more sense for a EV since there are possible corner cases where you need to charge it quickly. And there as I said others have fast charging as well. edit: Don't get me wrong Tesla's are cool. Mainly because of what Lutz said. They are cars I would like. I just don't suddenly think they are the most innovative company doing amazing things is all. |
12-07-2012, 04:06 PM | #135 |
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The Volt's default home EVSE is 240V 16A. The on-board charger, the rate limiting factor as elirentz noted, is 3.3 kW. In other words, with the right adapter you could plug in a Tesla High Power Wall Connector (20 kW x 2) yet the Volt would still charge at 3.3 kW max.
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12-07-2012, 04:49 PM | #136 | |
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You agreed with what I said about the volt's EVSE, but you are saying that it is limited by the onboard electronics to 3.3? At least I think. I still don't know what your point is though. It has nothing to do with the actual discussion about how advanced the battery and charging circuitry is. Bigger != more advanced. And as I stated already c-rate is what matters and in these cases it is quite low. From the previous post the Tesla was actually charging more slowly in terms of replenishing battery capacity b/c the battery is bigger. 4 hours vs. 3 hours. The shorter the time is to charge the battery the more you have to do in terms of thermal management. Dumping a bunch of electricity into it is easy if you don't care about anything else. |
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12-07-2012, 05:50 PM | #137 |
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I agree with your point about the C rate wrt charging, but the confusion seems to stem from EVSE vs. on-board charger capabilities.
The EVSE is a smart circuit breaker and cord, more or less. It's not a charger. The charger on board the car determines the max charging power, so in the case of the Volt the EVSE isn't the limiting factor unless it itself is limited to some figure below the power of the Volt's charger, which is 3.3 kW. |
12-08-2012, 10:19 AM | #138 | ||
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Last edited by elirentz; 12-08-2012 at 10:40 AM. |
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12-08-2012, 11:01 AM | #139 |
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I am pretty sure a bunch of chargers can adjust the load down. I heard they monitor the current and if it decreases they make the assumption that the wire is heating up and lower the draw. Or something similar to that. Anyway it is nice that an EV can charge at a higher rate, but for high rates a DC charger in the end makes more sense b/c there is no reason to carry around the heavy electronics in the car when they can be stationary.
The Volt only allows the user to use a smaller portion of the battery so it lasts longer. EVs allow access to more of the battery assuming most of the time consumers will still not use it, but if they need it then they do. In a PHEV you turn on the engine so there is no reason to shorten battery life by allowing full use (from the OEM perspective). |
12-08-2012, 03:08 PM | #140 |
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Yeah, again not saying anything against the volt or the reason it was designed the way it was. It only makes sense that charging, battery capacity, etc be smaller scale for a hybrid.
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