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Old 09-01-2003, 08:31 PM   #1
Thomas Ruble
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Default USDM 6 speed trans cooler info

I posted the same question in the sti forum but noone has responded unfortunately. I am hoping that someone who owns a USDM sti could verify ( or even better take a photo ) to see if there are two small coolant lines running from the bottom of the radiator to the transmission ( actually it would be an "in flow " and " out flow " line ) that runs to and from the tranny and radiator ). The tranny oil would be cooled utilizing the same design as the WRX engine oil cooler. Coolant would both warm the oil initially for cold starts and then cool it as the temps rise. But I am not sure so that is why I am asking.
I will be installing a six speed and want to replicate the factory setup. I believe that the radiator used in the sti is the same used in the automatic trans WRX's. I would drive to the nearest dealer and look myself but they are over 40 miles away...
Thanx, Tom.
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Last edited by Thomas Ruble; 09-02-2003 at 12:16 AM.
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Old 09-01-2003, 10:06 PM   #2
Boxologist
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i may be a little lost because of ur description. the tranny and oil coolers that u can install are smaller radiators that are actually drawing oil and tranny fliud respectively.

it appears u beleive that the fluid is drawn into the radiator and that i not the case.
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Old 09-01-2003, 11:08 PM   #3
ToddStratton
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I took a quick look at the service manual and couldn't find any mention of cooling lines going to the tranny. Specifically, the removal instructions don't mention it anywhere.

TRS
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Old 09-01-2003, 11:17 PM   #4
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The oil in a manual trans doesn't circulate through a pump, it just sits in the trans case and the internals are splash-lubricated. So there is no way to circulate the oil through an external cooler. There is no reason to do it anyway, a manual won't have problems with heat like an auto does.
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Old 09-01-2003, 11:38 PM   #5
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[quote]Originally posted by mulder
The oil in a manual trans doesn't circulate through a pump, it just sits in the trans case and the internals are splash-lubricated. So there is no way to circulate the oil through an external cooler.

There is no reason to do it anyway, a manual won't have problems with heat like an auto does.
[/QUOTE

For every day driving that is true which I am very well aware of. I am not new to perfromance vehicles. But for track use it is beneficial, especially with a tranny that is the size of the sti six speed.

No I am talking about the 6 speed trans and it does utilize an internal pump.
My six speed is optioned with with front lsd and it has two oil lines running towards the front of the car, thay were cut when the tranny was removed originally. Not all sti 6 speeds have the oil lines. Probably only the ones with a front lsd have them.
I am certain that these oil lines run to the radiator or some kind of external oil cooler. My belief is that they are plumbed to the radiator for two reasons ;
1) cold starts. The radiator fluid will warm the oil faster, ala the stock oil cooler unit...
2) to maintain consistent cooling temps
I have read that the USDM sti utilizes a tranny cooler and I want confirmation of this and its configuration.

Last edited by Thomas Ruble; 09-02-2003 at 12:18 AM.
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Old 09-01-2003, 11:47 PM   #6
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Well in that case you could be right but I would have to see it to verify. I don't know how the pump would work since there are no passages for the oil to circulate and gear oil would be difficult to pump. Maybe this is only for the diff fluid to keep that cool.
Since you are going to the trouble and expense of installing this transmission in your car it would be worthwhile to go to the Subaru tech site and for $20 download all the relevant tech manuals. You could then answer your own questions.
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Old 09-01-2003, 11:49 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by ToddStratton
I took a quick look at the service manual and couldn't find any mention of cooling lines going to the tranny. Specifically, the removal instructions don't mention it anywhere.

TRS
Please take a peak under your car at the bottom of your radiator. Are there two small lines leaving the radiator ?
I have seen a tranny cooler listed on the spec list on a few different web listings. Also sti used to offer a 6 sped tranny cooler. I shad seen it for sale through Japanparts.com. It was called a 6 speed transmission cooler / radiator combo. This is what led me to believe that it was simply a modified radiator to initially warm the fluid and then cool it. I spoke to Dave @ Rallispec who is of course very knowledgable and he described this sort of configuration to me. I am looking for confirmation.
Thanx, Tom..
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Old 09-01-2003, 11:57 PM   #8
Thomas Ruble
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Quote:
Originally posted by mulder
Well in that case you could be right but I would have to see it to verify. I don't know how the pump would work since there are no passages for the oil to circulate and gear oil would be difficult to pump. Maybe this is only for the diff fluid to keep that cool.
Since you are going to the trouble and expense of installing this transmission in your car it would be worthwhile to go to the Subaru tech site and for $20 download all the relevant tech manuals. You could then answer your own questions.
I am definitely correct. The 6 speed utilizes a integral oil pump. It also uses an oil pan. It is an awesome tranny. Please refer to the pdf ~
http://subaru.com.au/downloads/63748.pdf
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Old 09-02-2003, 07:28 AM   #9
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Interesting-
-Quote from Subaru tech document-
A trochoidal oil pump mounted in the rear of the transmission case pressurises and feeds lubricating oil to the mainshaft, pinion shaft
and transfer gears and a regulator and pressure relief valve maintain oil pressure. While driving oil is accumulated in an oil chamber
mounted on the front of the drive pinion shaft thereby reducing the oil level in the oil pan. This reduces the agitation resistance and
foaming of the oil caused by the gear rotation.

So part of the transmission is pressure fed. There is no mention of an external cooler however. This is also a document from Subaru of Australia so the US version may be different.
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Old 09-02-2003, 08:06 AM   #10
Thomas Ruble
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Quote:
Originally posted by mulder
Interesting-
So part of the transmission is pressure fed. There is no mention of an external cooler however. This is also a document from Subaru of Australia so the US version may be different.
It may be because the oil cooler is either an option, or it comes standard with lsd optioned cars only.
Anyways I was hoping the USDM cars had this option as a reference for my instsallation.

P.S. moderators please forgive the cross post in the sti forum. I wasn't getting any responses over there initially so I reposted the question over here. Sorry..
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Old 09-04-2003, 02:08 AM   #11
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I love this thread....

I will clear it all up for you

all 6spd's contain an internal pump near the back. It is a low pressure pump, few psi. But it moves the fluid from the back to the front it squirts it on the mainshaft and flows down to the front suretrac (if equipped, 90% are) The front diff actually gets quite hot when working hard. It is somewhat seperated from the rest of tranny but still allows free movement of fluid other than the pump. The cooler option was only on the Spec-C version and S202 in japan and MAY be on the US one. I don't believe so, as a few already stated. I have a Spec c tranny and made a cooler out of a six row tranny cooler and mounted it against my firewall near the stock IC location (I have fmic). It gets plenty of air from the scoop. I know it does a pretty good job as the top of the cooler is pretty warm and the bottom (return) is fairly cool. You actually could rig up a cooler on any 6spd by cutting the pump hardline (external) and attaching a cooler. The spec-c is a little easier as the hardline is already split for the cooler. There is also a plug that is 1/4npt on the hard line for a gauge. So there you have it.....any questions?

jim

oops some of that info was already posted sorry

Last edited by mr2guru; 09-04-2003 at 02:14 AM.
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Old 09-04-2003, 12:41 PM   #12
Thomas Ruble
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Quote:
Originally posted by mr2guru
I love this thread....

I will clear it all up for you

all 6spd's contain an internal pump near the back. It is a low pressure pump, few psi. But it moves the fluid from the back to the front it squirts it on the mainshaft and flows down to the front suretrac (if equipped, 90% are) The front diff actually gets quite hot when working hard. It is somewhat seperated from the rest of tranny but still allows free movement of fluid other than the pump. The cooler option was only on the Spec-C version and S202 in japan and MAY be on the US one. I don't believe so, as a few already stated. I have a Spec c tranny and made a cooler out of a six row tranny cooler and mounted it against my firewall near the stock IC location (I have fmic). It gets plenty of air from the scoop. I know it does a pretty good job as the top of the cooler is pretty warm and the bottom (return) is fairly cool. You actually could rig up a cooler on any 6spd by cutting the pump
hardline (external) and attaching a cooler. The spec-c is a little easier as the hardline is already split for the cooler. There is also a plug that is 1/4npt on the hard line for a gauge. So there you have it.....any questions?

jim

oops some of that info was already posted sorry
Thanks chiming in Jim great info... Are you using an inline thermostat with your cooler setup ? Do you think it is even needed ? Also here is another question. I wonder what type of cooler Subaru uses to cool the transmission ? Is it an external type vented air to oil ( like yours ) or do they use the radiator like the auto tranny utilizes ? I am betting on it being the radiator, but I've been wrong befere..
Tom
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Old 09-04-2003, 08:05 PM   #13
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I am not using a thermostat. I really don't think it is nessecary especially if you use a synthetic fluid. It flows pretty well when cold. I was suprised at how hot the fluid is coming out of the tranny though. I am not sure how subaru cools it. I've see a STi radiator which may be spec-C I might ask him if it has cooler lines.
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Old 09-04-2003, 08:24 PM   #14
Thomas Ruble
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Quote:
Originally posted by mr2guru
I am not sure how subaru cools it. I've see a STi radiator which may be spec-C I might ask him if it has cooler lines.
Thanx I would really appreciate knowing if its not too much trouble.
Tom
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