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08-19-2013, 12:30 AM | #1 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 316296
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Metro Detroit
Vehicle:2006 STIROID 10.5@131 on 29psi |
High Horsepower Crankcase Ventilation
Wanted to get some info together about what BIG HP guys are running for an AOS/Catch can setup. I had a Grimspeed AOS but it wasn't keeping up. I am now temporarily running vents to atmosphere through heater hose and dumping under the car. (all PCV ports)
So if you are 500-700+whp, what kind of PCV setup are you running? I was thinking about going with a Crawford setup but want to be sure it can keep up! Thanks in advance, AK
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08-19-2013, 11:10 AM | #2 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 63192
Join Date: Jun 2004
Chapter/Region:
NWIC
Location: Portland, Or
Vehicle:02 wrx 161mph Trapspeeds |
Crawford wont keep up! You need more capacity and big ports for venting and create good vacuum to drain the can
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08-19-2013, 11:17 AM | #3 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 103232
Join Date: Dec 2005
Chapter/Region:
Tri-State
Location: GTX3576R 05GD, GTX3076R'd FXT
Vehicle:GTX 3071R'd 11WRX PPG,4.44,LSD,E85,6spdx3 |
Anyone make a custom one you recommend? Or what are some other options?
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08-20-2013, 02:28 PM | #4 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 316296
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Metro Detroit
Vehicle:2006 STIROID 10.5@131 on 29psi |
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08-22-2013, 10:09 AM | #5 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 194062
Join Date: Nov 2008
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: Camp Hill PA
Vehicle:2003 Impreza WRX PSM |
What's considered the limit for the Crawford? I was planning to buy one but I'm aiming for 500ish whp so I may have to reconsider. Currently just running the stock junk
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08-22-2013, 11:26 AM | #6 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 63192
Join Date: Jun 2004
Chapter/Region:
NWIC
Location: Portland, Or
Vehicle:02 wrx 161mph Trapspeeds |
I run a custom can I made! -10 drain -vents. I also do my head venting a bit different as well as crank ventilation. Still doing testing before with the venting but seems to be handling it great at 157mph trap speeds so far.
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08-22-2013, 01:29 PM | #7 |
NASIOC Vendor
Member#: 198281
Join Date: Dec 2008
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: Virginia
Vehicle:2005 WRX/STi WRB of course |
Ask Crawford. I've seen people run dual units, but we're talking extreme setups. I'm at the point you're shooting for and use a single Crawford. It works flawlessly. Seriously, after 10K miles and taking stuff apart there is no more 'film' than on our shop stage II car that runs the same Crawford part. IMO, blowby has more to do with how the engine is built. If you have an engine with sheet loads of blowby it will defiantly overwhelm a crappy design and possibly even a good one.
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08-22-2013, 01:50 PM | #8 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 328635
Join Date: Aug 2012
Chapter/Region:
NWIC
Location: Portland*
Vehicle:2004 STi GTX3076R Rally Blue |
Have you thought to just go dry-sump?
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08-22-2013, 04:41 PM | #9 |
NASIOC Vendor
Member#: 198281
Join Date: Dec 2008
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: Virginia
Vehicle:2005 WRX/STi WRB of course |
^ that's a really expensive way to deal with blowby. A good separator will do the trick.
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08-22-2013, 05:12 PM | #10 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 328635
Join Date: Aug 2012
Chapter/Region:
NWIC
Location: Portland*
Vehicle:2004 STi GTX3076R Rally Blue |
Quote:
I have priced it out, actually not that much more then a high quality pan, pick-up, and pump combination (I have killerbee ;-) ). Then you add a AOS it starts to even out even more. Only reason I did standard pan style set-up was I am very unsure how a dry-sump would like DD situations. Plus what is cost when you are talking about getting 700+ out of a subi??? This is at least a 100% sure fix. |
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08-22-2013, 06:43 PM | #11 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 163648
Join Date: Nov 2007
Chapter/Region:
MWSOC
Location: Xona 78•64 UHF
Vehicle:2002 WRX V9 6mt R180 Brembos |
Theres a guy on here named bilyk wrx running an ixiz aos and a 74mm Borg Warner S374. I am pretty sure he was having success using that unit running extreme amounts of boost.
I picked one up for my hta86 E85 setup but the motor finally let go before I got a chance to put it on. I be testing the ixiz unit out once I'm up and running again. |
08-22-2013, 06:50 PM | #12 |
NASIOC Vendor
Member#: 198281
Join Date: Dec 2008
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: Virginia
Vehicle:2005 WRX/STi WRB of course |
I still don't see the point in a dry sump setup to solve a blow by problem, and if there is a blow by problem the dry sump doesn't fix the problem. It will mask it.
Last I looked the mediocre dry sump kits were around $2,500 and a decent setup can add a few a more on top of that. Besides price you will get no where near multi 100k reliability like you will with an OEM style pump (not that you're necessarily looking for that with a 700+whp Suby). |
08-22-2013, 07:17 PM | #13 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 212154
Join Date: May 2009
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: fast performance tuning
Vehicle:02 billet crank pauter rods, pt5857, E85 |
I run a 2 catch can setup using one on pcv and one on heads. Both are vented to atmosphere via a 3/4" hose to a 2" wire mesh breather. Works great for my setup. If your on a maf system you can vent it back to the turbo inlet as long as the system is working. I modified my pcv can so it would be baffled except I use a thick wire mesh instead of actual baffel walls. Works better than the baffled walls.
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08-22-2013, 07:27 PM | #14 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 328635
Join Date: Aug 2012
Chapter/Region:
NWIC
Location: Portland*
Vehicle:2004 STi GTX3076R Rally Blue |
Quote:
If he asked what should I do to solve blow-by I would say build the motor in a way that the clearance and such are built for his boost level. Also for dry-sump cost their is not a "kit" I would ever buy, they all have flaws and mark-ups that make it hard to stomach. But for a straight up AOS I like my Perrin AOS, It has great mounting options and has several options to how you set it up. |
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08-22-2013, 08:11 PM | #15 | |
NASIOC Vendor
Member#: 198281
Join Date: Dec 2008
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: Virginia
Vehicle:2005 WRX/STi WRB of course |
Quote:
I've never seen the Perrin setup until just now. It most definitely resembles the Crawford swirl pot design I really like (cough cough knock-off), but with a few more frills. I don't see it anywhere listed on their website? Pricing? |
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08-22-2013, 08:59 PM | #16 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 239638
Join Date: Feb 2010
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: VA
Vehicle:2007 WRX TR UGM |
Quote:
Does anyone make better internal baffling? The OEM setup for the crankcase port seems decent but the valve covers just have a run up from the feeding point, I don't think there's any more to it than that. Not to mention the second set of breather lines don't have anything. I can't recall if those two run through the PCV system on the stock setup or just valve cover to valve cover. Either way, during a high G turn with half your oil supply in one head keeping those breathers err - breathing and not impromptu oil lines might be a better, more preventative approach. There's also an option of using a pump in place of your pcv valve. This way you'll see -30 psi of vacuum at all times. Route the return line through an AOS - air to the inlet and oil froth to the oil pan. I don't like sending any metered air out of the system so the VTA option is hogwash to me! |
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08-22-2013, 11:14 PM | #17 | |
NASIOC Vendor
Member#: 198281
Join Date: Dec 2008
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: Virginia
Vehicle:2005 WRX/STi WRB of course |
Quote:
People get really hung up in oil coming out of the heads. It's inevitable, don't try to fight it, embrace it, work with it Also, if the head is full of oil, there are no gasses to be vented from that head If you haven't followed my threads on the subject before, I'm a big fan of swirl pot A/S separators (Crawford) using a vacuum source (turbo inlet) to reduce crankcase pressure and improve A/O separator performance. Alternatives for a vacuum source are a scavenge port in the exhaust or a mechanical pump (scavenge pump). |
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08-23-2013, 06:38 AM | #18 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 260868
Join Date: Oct 2010
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: Lake Worth, Florida
Vehicle:2011 STI White |
I use the Crawford for my crank case only. Placed a plug on the nipple that normally connects the hose from the heads. Then the heads are teed together and then run directly to the intake manifold. I'm speed density so I only have the 5/8" from the Crawford and 1/2" from the heads connected to my 4" intake.
I'm thinking about putting a catch can on the head line as well. Do the heads have a lot of oil coming out of them? I assumed the majority of oil is from the crank case. |
08-23-2013, 06:53 AM | #19 |
NASIOC Vendor
Member#: 198281
Join Date: Dec 2008
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: Virginia
Vehicle:2005 WRX/STi WRB of course |
You definitely want something on those lines. I don't recommend a catch can on the heads because they can fill under severe cornering significantly lowering your oil supply.
Why did you not put the heads into the Crawford unit as well? |
08-23-2013, 12:21 PM | #20 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 284392
Join Date: May 2011
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: North Charleston, SC
Vehicle:2011 STI Limited Plasma Blue Pearl |
Chris, I'll have to pick your brain about my setup while I'm at your shop next month. I need someone very educated on the subject to sit down with me and answer my "well what if we do this?" questions lol
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08-23-2013, 12:30 PM | #21 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 179330
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Jersey
Vehicle:05 LGT Wgn 400whp PriceRocket |
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08-23-2013, 02:25 PM | #22 | |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 33782
Join Date: Mar 2003
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: Milton Keynes, UK
Vehicle:96 3MI Racing search FIRST, then PM!!! |
Quote:
It is kept in place on my AOS and for good reason. There a few other track oriented techniques that can be implemented to improve ventilation. -Micah 3MI Racing |
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08-23-2013, 02:32 PM | #23 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 170602
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: j-ville fl
Vehicle:06 Wrx RWD Auto 76MM-AEM-2200's |
on my 35r setup with stock block i vented to atmosphere but had no blow by or drainage at all through the vent tubes. (24 psi)
my first built motor after that was with the 35r and around 24-27 psi pump. I used the crawford aos and never had issues. Now on my 67mm, have them venting to ground but only temporarily as i noticed they have a little blow by which makes me not happy but this motor is a bit looser than i usually go. i dont like seeing any thing in the vent hoses but i guess it happens :/ OP. i actually have everything to make a few custom cans. do you want to collect the oil or separate and send back? I really like the crawford aos as when I ran that I never consumed oil at all at least in the 2k oil change ranges. |
08-23-2013, 02:33 PM | #24 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 170602
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: j-ville fl
Vehicle:06 Wrx RWD Auto 76MM-AEM-2200's |
also if you have your valve covers off u could ship them to me or do it yourself-dremel the factory barbs off and weld on fat daddy an fittings to help just a little bit. have to make sure you clean them afterwards obviously before install
Last edited by stretchedk7; 08-23-2013 at 02:34 PM. Reason: spelling! wrong word |
08-23-2013, 03:26 PM | #25 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 260868
Join Date: Oct 2010
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: Lake Worth, Florida
Vehicle:2011 STI White |
Quote:
So you all are saying I need to re plumb it back on? Maybe put a tee right at the top of the aos line that goes to the intake and connect two hoses to the intake to have more suction that way? |
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