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Old 05-31-2011, 12:01 PM   #1
rkjunior
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Default valve adjustment question

Can someone please explain to me why a valve adjustment would be quoted as costing $2300. Is it really that much in labor even if there is a few hundred in miscellaneous parts (gaskets, etc).

Also, why is this repair not covered under the SAS GOLD plan when everything under the sun is? I've researched my documentation for the SAS GOLD and it does not differentiate between a repair/adjustment -- seems like they are contradicting what was sold to avoild getting out of doing this costly 'repair.' I've been fighting with the dealer in trying to fix a P0304 code for a few months. First it was "caused by a bad plug" and it was cleared during my 90K. It came back a month later, now it was caused by the bad P2443 Secondary Air Valve that was replaced -- cleared, and now it's back a few days later.. This time they swapped injector 2/4 along with the coil packs to see if they could get the code moved -- it stayed, so now they're saying the car requires a $2300 valve adjustment to fix - which won't be covered.

I'm about to take SOA to small claims on this one -- I feel like I'm getting jobbed.

P0304 is a Cylinder 4 Misfire.

Last edited by rkjunior; 05-31-2011 at 11:22 PM.
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Old 05-31-2011, 01:43 PM   #2
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Just as the name implies, "Valve Adjustment," is just that, an adjustment normally carried out in a maintenance routine.

At your mileage, this is wear and tear, normally not covered under a warranty unless specifically stated. Best to blow your engine to get it covered
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Old 05-31-2011, 01:53 PM   #3
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The website info for SAS GOLD clearly states that wear and tear is included.

http://www.subaru.com/finance-center...mparisons.html
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Old 05-31-2011, 01:56 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rkjunior
Can someone please explain to me why a valve adjustment would be quoted as costing $2300. Is it really that much in labor even if there is a few hundred in miscellaneous parts (gaskets, etc).

Also, why is this repair not covered under the SAS GOLD plan when everything under the sun is? I've researched my documentation for the SAS GOLD and it does not differentiate between a repair/adjustment -- seems like they are contradicting what was sold to avoild getting out of doing this costly 'repair.' I've been fighting with the dealer in trying to fix a P0304 code for a few months. First it was "caused by a bad plug" and it was cleared during my 90K. It came back a month later, now it was caused by the bad P2443 Secondary Air Valve that was replaced -- cleared, and now it's back a few days later.. This time they swapped injector 2/4 along with the coil packs to see if they could get the code moved -- it stayed, so now they're saying the car requires a $2300 valve adjustment to fix - which won't be covered.

I'm about to take SOA to small claims on this one -- I feel like I'm getting jobbed.
Wow! And I thought 400 for a valve adjustment on my Type R was ridiculous!

2300 to do what?
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Old 05-31-2011, 08:41 PM   #5
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...the hell would you need to adjust valves on a car with hydraulic lifters for? Could be that you're misinterpreting their results? Maybe valve replacement is what they're talking about, as in one is damaged/warped/etc.
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Old 05-31-2011, 10:36 PM   #6
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From the workorder:

"also recommend valve adjustment to correct misfire code P0304. Estimate for valve adjustment $2300+TAX".

Wouldn't a compression/leak down test determine if the valve was out of adjustment? If one was warped/damaged, that wouldn't be an adjustment - a repair - and it would be covered, according to them.
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Old 05-31-2011, 11:35 PM   #7
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I've had intermittent P0304 CELs from tight valves. Valve adjustment = pull the engine EJ205/257s use solid lifters
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Old 06-01-2011, 01:00 AM   #8
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Thats because their $2300 repair is actually replacing the blown piston
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Old 06-01-2011, 10:13 AM   #9
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lol, sorry to laugh but i like the last post and its probably true

and yeah, to adjust the valves requires changing the buckets and its a lot of work, but not $2300 either.

Wicked M@
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Old 06-01-2011, 11:06 AM   #10
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try replacing the coilpack. i had a p0303 code, swapped 1/3 coilpacks and the code went away. but now i have a p0301 code. so basically the code followed the bad coilpack. try replacing the coilpack (100+ bucks) and see if it goes away

Last edited by Bakerbrdz; 06-01-2011 at 11:06 AM. Reason: because i saw moses
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Old 06-01-2011, 12:28 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bakerbrdz
try replacing the coilpack. i had a p0303 code, swapped 1/3 coilpacks and the code went away. but now i have a p0301 code. so basically the code followed the bad coilpack. try replacing the coilpack (100+ bucks) and see if it goes away
They moved the coilpacks when they moved the injectors.

What I don't understand is how you can recommend a valve adjustment BEFORE you do a compression and/or leakdown test. Its almost like they know if they do, and it comes back bad, they know they will have to cover it - which they don't want to do.

Keep in mind, too, that the p0304 is very intermittent and not constant. If I clear it, it may not come back for a week or more.... Which is why I feel like they are going overboad and guessing on this. Could the knock sensor cause this?

Last edited by rkjunior; 06-01-2011 at 12:38 PM.
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Old 06-02-2011, 12:34 PM   #12
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Anyone else fought with SOA regarding this? How about the P0304. Seems like going from the injector swap directly to the valve adjustment is overkill... Could anything else be causing it?
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Old 06-02-2011, 12:59 PM   #13
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If changing the plugs doesn't help
If swapping the igniters doesn't help

Try this ...
Change your gas station.

I had this issue last year. It was a PITA trying to find the problem. I changed plugs, swapped plugs, swapped igniters, checked igniters, checked igniter connections, changed rear O2 sensor, and a bunch of other items.

In my case, the issue always stayed w/ #2 cylinder.

All of the above * could * be a cause of the P030X code. Lots of searching in NASIOC, IWSTI and other places. I logged every chenage, one by one, to track the issue to eliminate areas of possible trouble.

Finally realized what conditions caused the code.

I used to use the same gas station all the time with no problems. One day, the issue started without warning (don;t they always?), not long after filling up.

Problem would either come and go OR come on for an extended period.

Finally changed to a different gas station and after running a complete tank of fuel on the new stuff, problem went away on its own.

I have not gone back to the old gas station and my problem has not returned.
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Old 06-02-2011, 12:48 PM   #14
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I would demand a leakdown/compression test. Have them show you the #s too.
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Old 06-02-2011, 02:46 PM   #15
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I may try that. Won't hurt.

Where is Cylinder 3 located on the engine? I may pull the plug and see what it looks like, too.
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Old 06-02-2011, 02:53 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rkjunior View Post
I may try that. Won't hurt.

Where is Cylinder 3 located on the engine? I may pull the plug and see what it looks like, too.
When standing at the front of the car looking at the engine.

3---4
1---2

So cyl 3 would be the rear passenger cylinder.
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Old 06-02-2011, 02:53 PM   #17
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............................................facepa lm................................................ ......
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Old 06-02-2011, 03:01 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STi_FTW View Post
When standing at the front of the car looking at the engine.

3---4
1---2

So cyl 3 would be the rear passenger cylinder.
Thanks. Just wasn't sure how it was setup with a Subaru. I know they're a pain to get to so I just let the dealer change them during the 90K.

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............................................facepa lm................................................ ......
Thanks for trolling! :thumbsup:
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Old 06-02-2011, 03:16 PM   #19
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^^^^^^^^^no prob son......tell mama ill be a little late this evening......lol......highschoolers tryin to build engines just reassures my position at the dealership......i love fixing your f-ups.....hahaha
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Old 06-02-2011, 03:26 PM   #20
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^^^^^^^^^no prob son......tell mama ill be a little late this evening......lol......highschoolers tryin to build engines just reassures my position at the dealership......i love fixing your f-ups.....hahaha
maybe you could use some of that dealership knowledge and maybe lend some suggestions on what to do?
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Old 06-03-2011, 09:26 AM   #21
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Quote:
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^^^^^^^^^no prob son......tell mama ill be a little late this evening......lol......highschoolers tryin to build engines just reassures my position at the dealership......i love fixing your f-ups.....hahaha
This would be a good reason NOT to use you or your dealership for service work. BAD attitude

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paidfor
.....pour some engine oil into cylinder
This is completely unnecessary. You do not have to pour any oil into the cylinder. Simply put a couple of squirts of oil into the cylinder with an oil squirt can. All you need to do is get the rings wet, not drown them or the cylinder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paidfor
.....As far as testing the injectors and ign coils, theres no need to be swapping any parts, look in the service manual
This is also not a completely true statement. Sure, IF you have a service manual handy and IF you have and know how to use an Ohm meter, you can do this.

Swapping plugs/igniters is quick and easy and will tell you immediately if the part is bad or not becuase the problem will follow the part if the part is bad.
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Old 06-02-2011, 03:37 PM   #22
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Sure........sounds like you need to have a good leakdown and cylinder compression test done. If valve adjustment is the culprit...a leakdown test will prove it. compresion test it....if its low.....pour some engine oil into cylinder(yes this will require some longass homeade type funnel), check compression again....if its good, problem is in the ring/piston area. PO304 is the worst code you can probaly get on a subaru as the #4 cylinder is the hottest/leanest cylinder in stock form. My #4 piston blew apart at 46000 miles on a all stock 04 STi. ALL STOCK!!!!! As far as testing the injectors and ign coils, theres no need to be swapping any parts, look in the service manual(if u dont have it.....get it) Its very easy to test with a common volt/multimeter. Ohm em out and compare to manual specs.
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Old 06-02-2011, 05:10 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paidfor View Post
Sure........sounds like you need to have a good leakdown and cylinder compression test done. If valve adjustment is the culprit...a leakdown test will prove it. compresion test it....if its low.....pour some engine oil into cylinder(yes this will require some longass homeade type funnel), check compression again....if its good, problem is in the ring/piston area. PO304 is the worst code you can probaly get on a subaru as the #4 cylinder is the hottest/leanest cylinder in stock form. My #4 piston blew apart at 46000 miles on a all stock 04 STi. ALL STOCK!!!!! As far as testing the injectors and ign coils, theres no need to be swapping any parts, look in the service manual(if u dont have it.....get it) Its very easy to test with a common volt/multimeter. Ohm em out and compare to manual specs.

Thank you. This is good information and is appreciated. Any idea what the numbers for the compression and leakdown test should look like?

Does this $2300 quote for a damn valve adjustment sound right in the ballpark? Everyone seems to think it's very high.
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Old 06-02-2011, 05:31 PM   #24
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Cold compression usually 110-130 +/- leakdown should be no more than 25% or so. When i built mine(04 STi wih ej257, forged pistons, oversized valves) I had a leakdown rate of 35% This was due to everything being brand new and cold as hell lol started her up, idled it for about 20 mins. Checked compression and leakdown. Comp was at 155 on all 4 cylinders, leakdown rate of 15%. People will tell you that a leakdown of more than 5% is a problem, that is not correct as sooooo many variables come into play such as oil temp, thickness, age. New parts or old etc... Im looking at the time charts now and complete valve adjustment is only a 4.8 hr job. At our $85 an hr rate, thatd be $408 plus any buckets that you may need. $36 per bucket. Worst case senario if you needed 16 buckets and 4.8 hrs labor is $984.00 $2300 is waaayyyyyy high!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 06-03-2011, 10:12 AM   #25
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Alrighty samurai jackoff. .lol sounds like you need to go and help those auto zone boys change some wiperblades or something . lol If YOU want to work on YOUR car then YES you do NEED a service manual. If all your gonna do is swap parts and blame problems on faulty fuel, then i think you need to bring your problem cars to someone who KNOWS what they are doing.You can analyze the fuel for parts per water with a fuel analyzer and you can flawlessly repair problems time after time with the factory service manual that can be found online in cd format for very little cost, as it contains all the torque specs and parameter values for sensor/wiring tests. Or some people just have nothing better to do than make uneducated guesses and swap around parts , potentially creating new problems. hhhmmmmmmm what to do.........
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