Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Friday March 29, 2024
Home Forums Images WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Miscellaneous > Off-Topic

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.







* As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. 
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-06-2012, 08:01 AM   #9951
Neek
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 3400
Join Date: Jan 2001
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Vehicle:
2016 Red Pirate Cat
1981 CJ-7

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by usfsfire42 View Post
So, it's really just a preference?
They are really different lifts with different stimuli. Each one has it's own uses and advantages. Sometimes programming specifically includes both.

I disagree with ETD. I think a low bar back squat recruits far more involvement of the hamstrings, which is why if all out highest amount of weight lifted is the goal (competitive powerlifting), then in most people a LBBS will allow you to lift more weight when compared to a HBBS in the same lifter. During a HBBS the bottom position tends to be higher than in a LBBS (just below parallel as opposed to rock bottom, hamstrings on calves, ass an inch from the floor.

However the HBBS does have far more translation into the olympic lifts which is why it's called the "olympic squat". The upright torso and deeper bottom position closely mimic the posture necessary to achieve a successful catch with significant weight in the snatch or clean. The technique is also different, with a much faster eccentric phase. A powerlifter doing LBBS will often use a much slower drop down to barely below parallel before exploding up. During an olympic squat, the lifter will often "dive bomb" down to the bottom position much faster, utilize the "bounce" at rock bottom to help them through the sticking point on the way back up.

Both are 800lb squats:

Low bar:

High bar:

Really different lifts. Sorry bout the dissertation, but I really like to geek out on this stuff.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Neek is offline  
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 10-06-2012, 08:17 AM   #9952
SCGT
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 34644
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Phoenix AZ
Vehicle:
2007 BMW 335i
Silver

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by usfsfire42 View Post
I'll use a 2.5lb plate. That should work fine
As we discussed, I do not want you to put a plate under your heels. You absolutely do not need it, it's a waste of time, and simply put, stupid. You are majoring in the minors. Your form is good enough right now, although you could use a few tweaks, the biggest tweak you need is to lift fork to mouth.

As usual, Tim K's advice is pretty good. Plate under the heels are retarded. I'll double your fees if I catch you doing that.
SCGT is offline  
Old 10-06-2012, 08:18 AM   #9953
Tim K.
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 214
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Sumter, SC
Vehicle:
2014 Massey Ferguson
Red

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by totalburnout View Post
No no.

You put a plate under each heel to force the habit of driving through the heels. It has nothing to do with the width of the stance.

It's a coaching tool.
Wrong. Elevating the heel is something you would do for an Oly squat if you wearing the wrong shoes - narrower stance, high bar. Doing that with a low bar and wide stance is not a good thing. It'll screw up the lift.

Oly squats recruit more of the quads. Powerlifting squats more of the posterior chain. Oly squats are fast. Powerlifting squats are generally slower.

Learning to drive through the heel can easily be done by telling the lifter to sit back, and try to pick-up/wriggle their toes as come back up. If you're also spreading the floor with your feet and forcing your knees out, the heel drive about takes care of itself.

Last edited by Tim K.; 10-06-2012 at 08:26 AM.
Tim K. is offline  
Old 10-06-2012, 08:23 AM   #9954
Neek
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 3400
Join Date: Jan 2001
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Vehicle:
2016 Red Pirate Cat
1981 CJ-7

Default

Only time I've seen the 2.5 plates to be helpful is in a guy where his ankle flexibility is holding him back from being comfortable in the very deep bottom position of the olympic squat. Getting the heels up off the ground allows you to have a less acute angle between the tibia and the foot at the bottom.
Neek is offline  
Old 10-06-2012, 08:28 AM   #9955
Tim K.
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 214
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Sumter, SC
Vehicle:
2014 Massey Ferguson
Red

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neek View Post
Only time I've seen the 2.5 plates to be helpful is in a guy where his ankle flexibility is holding him back from being comfortable in the very deep bottom position of the olympic squat. Getting the heels up off the ground allows you to have a less acute angle between the tibia and the foot at the bottom.
I'll use them when I'm Oly squatting barefoot. And it has everything to do with my lack of mobility. One day, I'm going to get a nice pair of Oly shoes.
Tim K. is offline  
Old 10-06-2012, 08:31 AM   #9956
Tim K.
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 214
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Sumter, SC
Vehicle:
2014 Massey Ferguson
Red

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCGT View Post
As usual, Tim K's advice is pretty good. Plate under the heels are retarded. I'll double your fees if I catch you doing that.
I had a pretty damned good Mentor, Pops!
Tim K. is offline  
Old 10-06-2012, 11:30 AM   #9957
usfsfire42
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 242630
Join Date: Mar 2010
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: .
Vehicle:
.. Flu shot
technician.

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neek View Post
They are really different lifts with different stimuli. Each one has it's own uses and advantages. Sometimes programming specifically includes both.

I disagree with ETD. I think a low bar back squat recruits far more involvement of the hamstrings, which is why if all out highest amount of weight lifted is the goal (competitive powerlifting), then in most people a LBBS will allow you to lift more weight when compared to a HBBS in the same lifter. During a HBBS the bottom position tends to be higher than in a LBBS (just below parallel as opposed to rock bottom, hamstrings on calves, ass an inch from the floor.

However the HBBS does have far more translation into the olympic lifts which is why it's called the "olympic squat". The upright torso and deeper bottom position closely mimic the posture necessary to achieve a successful catch with significant weight in the snatch or clean. The technique is also different, with a much faster eccentric phase. A powerlifter doing LBBS will often use a much slower drop down to barely below parallel before exploding up. During an olympic squat, the lifter will often "dive bomb" down to the bottom position much faster, utilize the "bounce" at rock bottom to help them through the sticking point on the way back up.

Both are 800lb squats:

Low bar:
John Hare - 800 pound squat in training - YouTube

High bar:
800 pound / 363 kg Squat - ATG 100% RAW - YouTube

Really different lifts. Sorry bout the dissertation, but I really like to geek out on this stuff.
NO, I appreciate it. Thank you!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCGT View Post
As we discussed, I do not want you to put a plate under your heels. You absolutely do not need it, it's a waste of time, and simply put, stupid. You are majoring in the minors. Your form is good enough right now, although you could use a few tweaks, the biggest tweak you need is to lift fork to mouth.

As usual, Tim K's advice is pretty good. Plate under the heels are retarded. I'll double your fees if I catch you doing that.
I don't remember that discussion but I also don't remember half of our discussions. But okay.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim K. View Post
Wrong. Elevating the heel is something you would do for an Oly squat if you wearing the wrong shoes - narrower stance, high bar. Doing that with a low bar and wide stance is not a good thing. It'll screw up the lift.

Oly squats recruit more of the quads. Powerlifting squats more of the posterior chain. Oly squats are fast. Powerlifting squats are generally slower.

Learning to drive through the heel can easily be done by telling the lifter to sit back, and try to pick-up/wriggle their toes as come back up. If you're also spreading the floor with your feet and forcing your knees out, the heel drive about takes care of itself.
Thank you
usfsfire42 is offline  
Old 10-06-2012, 01:15 PM   #9958
totalburnout
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 72861
Join Date: Oct 2004
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: North Jersey
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim K.

Wrong. Elevating the heel is something you would do for an Oly squat if you wearing the wrong shoes - narrower stance, high bar. Doing that with a low bar and wide stance is not a good thing. It'll screw up the lift.

Oly squats recruit more of the quads. Powerlifting squats more of the posterior chain. Oly squats are fast. Powerlifting squats are generally slower.

Learning to drive through the heel can easily be done by telling the lifter to sit back, and try to pick-up/wriggle their toes as come back up. If you're also spreading the floor with your feet and forcing your knees out, the heel drive about takes care of itself.
I wasn't looking for him to be doing a LBBS so it would be an Olympic squat that most people, including myself, advised him to use.

As I said in the other post, I don't personally put plates under my heels but have seen plenty of people that are new at squatting, be helped by the plates.

I understand what is being said about coaching someone to drive through their heels, but without someone being there to actively coach him, it could be a quick fix.

With that said, I agree 100% about being able to wiggle your toes in the bottom position. I've made several posts about that in this thread. I like to take it a step further and have someone hold a 10lb plate in front of them when performing a bodyweight squat. Pause at the bot, be able to wiggle to toes, and keep the torso up. I figured fetus would ask 1836720 questions if I advised him to do that, rather than shutting up and trying it. It works really well for the deadlifts, clean, snatch and gets people to actually get their ass down and torso upright.

I agree that his squat form is pretty good, but since he was posting it for critique, my preference would be to get that bar higher on the traps and have the torso more upright. Thy may simply be a bias because I like the Olympic lifts and because I have a bad lower back.
totalburnout is offline  
Old 10-06-2012, 01:21 PM   #9959
cronic
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 9749
Join Date: Aug 2001
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Vehicle:
-

Default

I think fetus should stick to asking Chris form questions. He's training him, so he should tell him wtf to do. Other people give their opinion and it may not be what Chris has in mind for him and it turns into a **** show.

Just listen to Chris. You can't take 10 different pieces of advice, from people with vastly different techniques and try to apply it.

Jmo

Now go eat a sandwich lol
cronic is offline  
Old 10-06-2012, 01:36 PM   #9960
2k2
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 12368
Join Date: Nov 2001
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Pittsburgh,PA
Vehicle:
2008 Infiniti G35X
2011 BMW X5 Diesel

Default

So I have taken 2 weeks off thanks to my back and still have some soreness. I am going to try to find an ortho next week. Or I'll drive down to WV and have bacdoc fix me.
2k2 is offline  
Old 10-06-2012, 03:05 PM   #9961
Swordfish II
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 95554
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Dirt Farmer
Vehicle:
2007 The Surly Squad

Default

It is so nice having a slight calorie surplus, tons more energy

SOHP
WU 1 x 5 @ 80
WU 1 x 5 @ 100
WU 1 x 3 @ 120
1 x 5 @ 130
1 x 5 @ 160 (Should have been 150...I'm an idiot)
1 x 5 @ 170
1x1 @ 175
1x1 @ 180
1x1 @ 185

3x10 @ 120

bw +45lbs x 5 pullups
bw +40lbs x 3 pullups
bw +35lbs x 5 pullups

I'm late to the party and my squat form really isnt the best, but you didn't look bad to me Fetus.
Swordfish II is offline  
Old 10-06-2012, 04:04 PM   #9962
usfsfire42
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 242630
Join Date: Mar 2010
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: .
Vehicle:
.. Flu shot
technician.

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cronic View Post
I think fetus should stick to asking Chris form questions. He's training him, so he should tell him wtf to do. Other people give their opinion and it may not be what Chris has in mind for him and it turns into a **** show.

Just listen to Chris. You can't take 10 different pieces of advice, from people with vastly different techniques and try to apply it.

Jmo

Now go eat a sandwich lol
That's what I'm talking about!!
usfsfire42 is offline  
Old 10-06-2012, 05:22 PM   #9963
Tim K.
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 214
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Sumter, SC
Vehicle:
2014 Massey Ferguson
Red

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cronic View Post
I think fetus should stick to asking Chris form questions. He's training him, so he should tell him wtf to do. Other people give their opinion and it may not be what Chris has in mind for him and it turns into a **** show.

Just listen to Chris. You can't take 10 different pieces of advice, from people with vastly different techniques and try to apply it.

Jmo

Now go eat a sandwich lol
Exactly.
Tim K. is offline  
Old 10-06-2012, 07:00 PM   #9964
Layman
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 3717
Join Date: Jan 2001
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Army of the Potomac
Vehicle:
2011 Swagger Wagon
bikes with pedals

Default

I need to do some conditioning and would like to lose some weight. To do so, I'm joining a crossfit gym and will probably go 2-3 times a week. I found one I like with a schedule that works for me.

Does this mean I'm out of the cool kids club? Will I be mocked?
Layman is offline  
Old 10-06-2012, 07:13 PM   #9965
Neek
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 3400
Join Date: Jan 2001
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Vehicle:
2016 Red Pirate Cat
1981 CJ-7

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Layman
I need to do some conditioning and would like to lose some weight. To do so, I'm joining a crossfit gym and will probably go 2-3 times a week. I found one I like with a schedule that works for me.

Does this mean I'm out of the cool kids club? Will I be mocked?
I haven't gotten kicked out yet
Neek is offline  
Old 10-06-2012, 07:35 PM   #9966
Tim K.
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 214
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Sumter, SC
Vehicle:
2014 Massey Ferguson
Red

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Layman View Post
I need to do some conditioning and would like to lose some weight. To do so, I'm joining a crossfit gym and will probably go 2-3 times a week. I found one I like with a schedule that works for me.

Does this mean I'm out of the cool kids club? Will I be mocked?
You were mocked before you went to CF. This changes nothing!

The key to CF is to find a good box. If you've found one that knows what they're doing, good coaches and programming, you'll be in good hands.
Tim K. is offline  
Old 10-06-2012, 07:38 PM   #9967
Swordfish II
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 95554
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Dirt Farmer
Vehicle:
2007 The Surly Squad

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Layman View Post

Does this mean I'm out of the cool kids club? Will I be mocked?
Magic Eight Ball says: Most Definately
Swordfish II is offline  
Old 10-06-2012, 08:06 PM   #9968
cronic
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 9749
Join Date: Aug 2001
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Vehicle:
-

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Layman View Post
I need to do some conditioning and would like to lose some weight. To do so, I'm joining a crossfit gym and will probably go 2-3 times a week. I found one I like with a schedule that works for me.

Does this mean I'm out of the cool kids club? Will I be mocked?
Lose weight through diet, not by turning into a homosexual. jeez.

On a side note, my latest "impulse buy" arrived. VITAMIX. Chicken shakes here I come..
cronic is offline  
Old 10-06-2012, 08:06 PM   #9969
idget_rex
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 103281
Join Date: Dec 2005
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: mn
Default

Cf? Dyel?

Speaking of cf, are muscleups usually done on rings or a pullup bar? Did a few both ways messing around the other night and they were pretty hard on a bar but pretty easy on rings. Wondering how they're usually done (cf style).
idget_rex is offline  
Old 10-06-2012, 08:09 PM   #9970
Layman
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 3717
Join Date: Jan 2001
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Army of the Potomac
Vehicle:
2011 Swagger Wagon
bikes with pedals

Default

Haha. But homosexuality seems so much easier than dieting!

Glad to know the mocking won't stop.
Layman is offline  
Old 10-06-2012, 08:13 PM   #9971
totalburnout
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 72861
Join Date: Oct 2004
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: North Jersey
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by idget_rex
Cf? Dyel?

Speaking of cf, are muscleups usually done on rings or a pullup bar? Did a few both ways messing around the other night and they were pretty hard on a bar but pretty easy on rings. Wondering how they're usually done (cf style).
Rings. Bars are easier.
totalburnout is offline  
Old 10-06-2012, 08:17 PM   #9972
idget_rex
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 103281
Join Date: Dec 2005
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: mn
Default

Nice baller blender Dave! :shiver: chicken shakes...
idget_rex is offline  
Old 10-06-2012, 08:32 PM   #9973
Neek
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 3400
Join Date: Jan 2001
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Vehicle:
2016 Red Pirate Cat
1981 CJ-7

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by idget_rex
Cf? Dyel?

Speaking of cf, are muscleups usually done on rings or a pullup bar? Did a few both ways messing around the other night and they were pretty hard on a bar but pretty easy on rings. Wondering how they're usually done (cf style).
Both are done at times. I can do them much better on the bar for some reason.
Neek is offline  
Old 10-06-2012, 10:41 PM   #9974
sweed
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 299995
Join Date: Nov 2011
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: NH
Vehicle:
2006 SWEEDSAAB
Silvah

Default

Monday starts my 17 week progress to get to my ultimate goal. Low bf. That is also the date of my brothers wedding. I've relaxed my diet / training since August. I haven't gained any weight, surprised since I've been eating whatever and drinking a ton of homebrew. Time to get back in the groove and kill it. 25 ish lbs to lose, very very doable. I'll prob get there after a few months, but we have Halloween, Thanksgiving, Christmas, my 30th bday, and I want to enjoy those fun times with a lot of beer.
Giggidy giggidy, giggidy goo.
sweed is offline  
Old 10-06-2012, 10:47 PM   #9975
cronic
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 9749
Join Date: Aug 2001
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Vehicle:
-

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by idget_rex
Nice baller blender Dave! :shiver: chicken shakes...
If it's good enough for Derek Poundstone than it's good enough for me. Lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by sweed
Monday starts my 17 week progress to get to my ultimate goal. Low bf. That is also the date of my brothers wedding. I've relaxed my diet / training since August. I haven't gained any weight, surprised since I've been eating whatever and drinking a ton of homebrew. Time to get back in the groove and kill it. 25 ish lbs to lose, very very doable. I'll prob get there after a few months, but we have Halloween, Thanksgiving, Christmas, my 30th bday, and I want to enjoy those fun times with a lot of beer.
Giggidy giggidy, giggidy goo.
What's your ultimate bf goal?
cronic is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
OT Fitness/Strength Thread 2011 v2.0 SCGT Off-Topic 4229 02-10-2012 09:08 PM
2012 not commencing smoking thread SkirtBoy Off-Topic 2 12-31-2011 09:56 PM
OT Fitness/Strength Thread 2011 Integra96 Off-Topic 10049 10-21-2011 09:02 PM
OT Fitness Thread 2007! SCGT Off-Topic 4748 03-27-2008 09:32 AM
OT Fitness gurus - what's your 06 strength training? Full_Clip Off-Topic 2701 09-23-2007 08:20 AM

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2024 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2019, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.

As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.

When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission
Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.