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06-24-2008, 12:17 AM | #1 |
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Reasons for not hitting target boost...
Okay, so I finally got my gutted uppipe installed and was comfortable flashing to stage 2. I used the "base" stage 2 map for an '04 WRX off of osecuroms.org...it made a huge difference. Definitely pulls harder, and when I logged it it looked like all the parameters were right where they needed to be. Only thing is, I'm only hitting about 13.8-14 psi. I think target for this map is 15.58. The only thing I'm not currently running is a K&N panel filter (still have the Subaru paper filter in). Would this account for the lower than target boost I'm seeing right now? I'm really not very worried, as I'm using this to hold me off until I get a proper tune. Just curious as to what would cause this. Thanks,
-E
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06-24-2008, 08:18 AM | #2 |
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Using a generic tune causes this.You have to take in account ambient temps,altitude and humididty.That map was made from a totally different car at a different time of year with different envoirmental conditions.Plus there are about another 100 variables I could include like you reusing the old gaskets on your up-pipe and having a slight preturbo exhaust leak or your car having weaker compression than the other one.Maybe you have a slight boost leak somewhere.
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06-24-2008, 11:41 AM | #3 | |
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06-24-2008, 01:14 PM | #4 |
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I had trouble hitting target boost as well - a GM BCS really helped me (04 STi).
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06-24-2008, 02:03 PM | #5 |
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I'm still not sold on the aftermarket BCS solenoids...
With a tdo4, vf39, and a green, I've been able to hit target boost just fine, as long as the targets I set are feasible (spool) and efficient (high rpm boost). If you want to hit those targets you'll need to tune the WGDC and possibly adjust the turbo dynamics. |
06-24-2008, 02:28 PM | #6 |
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Another quick question: I have seen a couple instances where people have suggested adjusting the wastegate arm to help hit the target boost. I'm not so sure I want to do this with a generic tune...would I be risking anything by adjusting it without tuning specifically for the adjustment? Oh, and the GM bcs is definitely going on eventually...
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06-24-2008, 02:55 PM | #7 | |
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06-24-2008, 03:39 PM | #8 | |
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As for the GM BCS...I've heard too much good to not take advantage of it. Plus, we have to show at least some support for our domestic auto companies, right? I'll consider it my $70-$80 contribution to the cause |
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06-24-2008, 03:54 PM | #9 | |
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no gm only japan from what i understand boost should be more stable with a aftermarket bcs but I really haven't had any issues and im pushing 16-17 psi on td04 save yer money and buy somethin else |
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06-24-2008, 04:15 PM | #10 |
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06-24-2008, 04:58 PM | #11 |
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If you have plans for EWG, the BEST option is a 4-port solenoid from Grainger. Search for Freon's post on it. (you can still use it without ewg)
If you don't plan on EWG, and must have an interrupt style BCS, the GM is great. But the stock ECU with an aftermarket solenoid isn't going to be as good as a nice standalone BCS. IMO, 3-port interrupt style setups are superior, but it just isn't worth it. Another setup worth looking into is a hybrid MBC + EBCS. You get maximum spool with the MBC, but no partial throttle full boost thanks to the EBCS. Last edited by fujiillin; 06-25-2008 at 02:25 PM. |
06-24-2008, 05:22 PM | #12 | |
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I just got a great deal on a ewg setup, the setup being a turbo xs up pipe with dump tube and tial 44mm ext.wastegate. with running that setup on a td04 other than it being open 90% of the time would it be wise to run a aftermarket bcs? what as far as tuning do I need to change, wgdc ect.. Im thinking of going with a much quieter exhaust(I'm running invidia g200 with no resonator and a invidia downpipe.) because of the noise from the ewg. do you think 44mm is to big? |
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06-24-2008, 05:45 PM | #13 |
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The 44 won't provide boost control as precise as the 38 on such a small turbo, but it should do just fine.. quieter too.
You certainly won't need a 4 port which allows you to use the maximum pressure gradient available to hold the gate shut or open at the cost of a little precision. However, you can always run it just like a 3-port until you need the functionality of 4. I'd start with the 2-port and see how it goes. Run a T off the compressor to the top and bottom ports of the gate, and put the solenoid in the line to the top. Since the whole setup is changed, I'd zero WGDC and tune from there. If the boost is too high at zero, go 3 or 4 port. You could change springs, but the 3 / 4 will give you more control in the end. Cobb has a really good pdf on this with pictures and descriptions of different bcs setups in their forums. Last edited by fujiillin; 06-24-2008 at 05:50 PM. |
06-24-2008, 06:45 PM | #14 | |
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sorry bout the hijack i'll buy ya a beer! |
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06-24-2008, 07:39 PM | #15 |
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06-25-2008, 01:32 PM | #16 |
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I wanted to add my $0.02 to the BCS talk.
I think the Grainger part that is the same solenoid as the perrin ebcs is great and identical in function to the GM part and easier to find. The advantages of the 3 port BCS (GM,Perrin,etc.)are more than just holding high boost levels. You will get better spool as well. No messing around with different pills in the vacuum lines. And for a $35 part from Grainger it is more than worth it. And you can add a MBC and run a parallel boost control setup(super easy to tune). As far as adjusting wastegate arms. It shouldn't be used to control boost. It is just a band-aid for proper tuning. Boost is not that hard to tune. Anybody can at least hit target boost. If you had the skills to flash your ROM on your computer you can tune boost. Turbo dynamics is a little more difficult but you will get better spool up when things are worked out. I used a generic OTS tune when I first flash while i was learning to tune. I hit a whopping 14.5 PSI tapering down to 11 at redline with a VF30 on my 02. They are in fact just base tunes that need to be adjusted. Last edited by eminehart; 06-25-2008 at 01:38 PM. |
06-25-2008, 01:39 PM | #17 |
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Adjusting WG arms is more than just a band-aid treatment. If your WG is blowing open prematurely, and your WG arm can be adjusted, it can help actually fix the problem.
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06-25-2008, 03:05 PM | #18 | |
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Quote:
Exhaust gas? I've heard of this, but haven't experienced it yet at 20 PSI. Boost Solenoid? Definitely. In my experience the stock solenoid can only bleed off 16-17 PSI before the pressure starts to open the wastegate. So tightening the arm to compensate for the boost solenoid is a band-aid. |
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06-25-2008, 03:43 PM | #19 |
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In my opinion, the stock BCS works fine if the WGDC is tuned aggressively. Unfortunately, the 16 bit ecu needs a little more conservatism to prevent overboosting under other conditions because it doesn't have as many tables as the 32 bit ecus.
Here's a chart of a stock BCS TD04 with wastegate set to 7.5 psi. Patm = 14.1 psi. I believe the temperature was around 70 to 75. |
06-25-2008, 03:53 PM | #20 |
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That tune used a 1.0 mm restrictor pill.
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06-25-2008, 04:48 PM | #21 |
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The GM (General Motors aka AC Delco) can be found/ordered at/from any GM dealership.Not sure why it would be hard to find unless your Stevie Wonder . Costs a whopping $15.
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06-25-2008, 05:08 PM | #22 |
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ooops
Last edited by eminehart; 06-25-2008 at 05:21 PM. Reason: double post |
06-25-2008, 05:19 PM | #23 | |
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Quote:
I was also responding to people saying they didn't want a GM part on there car. The wastegate arm should be adjusted if the wastegate won't stay closed. I have seen too many people trying to control boost with it. I know a lot of people use it as an autocross cheater trick. If you have the ability to tune boost why not do it with the software? |
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06-25-2008, 05:57 PM | #24 | |
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For the extra $30, I make pretty much all of the local 2.0L's I tune buy one. |
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06-25-2008, 06:56 PM | #25 | |
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Sadly, the only 2.0 I've touched was @ stock boost Also... the GM with pigtail might be 30, but the nice premair 4 port at grainger is only 41 Last edited by fujiillin; 06-25-2008 at 07:26 PM. |
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